New headsail and roller furling on O'day 25

[wnance]

Hi there,

My father-in-law wants to upgrade his roller furling/headsail this spring. He (we) currently have a Shaeffer wire furler, which isn't super beefy, and a pretty blown out 170 or so genny (Huge sail!)

I frequently felt like we were way overpowered sailing Lake Ontario this past year, with not only a really big genny, but old at that, so really parachuting and pushing the boat over on its ear.

After doing a lot of searching and reading in these forums, I'm leaning towards the popular CDI FF4 with the bearings upgrade, but am wondering if there are recommendations for a sail- I've read quite a bit about not overpowering this boat (O'day 25) so am leaning towards a 135% with either a foam or rope luff to aid in furling. (I've noticed on at least one site that runs packages that the difference in price between the CDI and a Harken 00al furling units was only $200 or so, any thoughts there?) As far as the sail goes, would I be best using a local shop? (Haarstick sailmakers are here in town, very good quality, might be quite a bit more pricey than a mail order loft) Any other issues to consider? We will most likely only be pleasure cruising, not racing, so looking for something very dependable, easy to roll out, in and furl. . .

Thanks!

Wes Nance
Rochester, NY

ps look for a picture of my kids on the port rail of his boat "Daydreamer" in the next issue of Good Old Boat. . .

 

[Steve Morris]

I Have The Same Situation

Hey, Wes, once you come up with a solution please let me know. I would like to make the same change.

 

[wnance]

Hey, Wes, once you come up with a solution please let me know. I would like to make the same change.

Steve,

Will do.

Wes

 

[appleman]

Have you checked the prices on this site?

 

[Shoaldrafter]

Wes

Have you checked the prices on this site?

Wes,

Remember that the few shekels Capt Herring makes off selling stuff on this site pays for the server and computer connections. Throw the old sea dog a bone.

And I think that a 135 was usually the sail that an O'Day 25 was delivered with. So a 135 should be fine, especially where you are.

Overpowering a boat does not mean it sails faster. Just heels more. An O'Day 25 is just not going to plane. Of course there may be someone on this forum who claims he has done it.

Ed K
26
Addendum: "One of the most important talents for success in politics is the ability to make utter nonsense sound not only plausible but inspiring." Thomas Sowell

 

[Carver13014]

When I bought my 25, it came with an old 150 and a 100 jib. Sailed a fair amount with the 150 but definitely felt overpowered at times. I bought a FF6 furler and a new 135 last year and love it. I'd definitely recommend the 135.

Greg

 

[wnance]

Wes,

Remember that the few shekels Capt Herring makes off selling stuff on this site pays for the server and computer connections. Throw the old sea dog a bone.

And I think that a 135 was usually the sail that an O'Day 25 was delivered with. So a 135 should be fine, especially where you are.

Overpowering a boat does not mean it sails faster. Just heels more. An O'Day 25 is just not going to plane. Of course there may be someone on this forum who claims he has done it.

Ed K
26
Addendum: "One of the most important talents for success in politics is the ability to make utter nonsense sound not only plausible but inspiring." Thomas Sowell

I'll check out the stuff on this site, didn't even think to look. . .

I'm not looking to overpower the boat, so that's why I was thinking a 135. The big honking head sail on there now might even be a 170 or so, it's huge!

I'm just wondering if I had a 150 if light air performance would be a little better, and then if it was really blowing I could furl the sail in a bit to depower. . .

Wes

 

[paulm317]

I put a CDI furling unit on my Tartan 27 last spring. The newly designed CDI has a one piece luff. I am very happy with the unit.

 

[emergpa1]

Have you checked the prices on this site?

I thought "sailboat owners" were very helpful with my running rigging. I plan to shop here first. My next search is jamestown (most helpful website) and defender (best price). Also rans are keenzo (hatch) and genuindealz (wiring)

What should my degrees of heel be for the best upwind performance. What about on a beam reach?

If the winds are our usual of nothing to 15 mph. what should my sails be?

keith

 

[JLK]

Depends on how deep your father in law's pockets are. On a serious note, thanks for all of your research Wes. The father in law.

 

[wnance]

Depends on how deep your father in law's pockets are. On a serious note, thanks for all of your research Wes. The father in law.

Hahaha! Very funny, good to see you here in the forums. You should know that I take spending your money very seriously! Almost as seriously as spending my money!!

I still can't decide if we should go the economical route:

CDI FF4 furler, with 135% genoa from sail warehouse, around $1500 total

http://www.thesailwarehouse.com/cgi-bin/web_store_packages.cgi

or the more expensive route:

Cross cut 135% genoa from Haarstick- $1700
Shaeffer snap-furl- $1100

Total- $2800

That's a really big price difference. I have no doubt that the Haarstick sail is a premium custom hand built sail, but are we going to see a lot of difference on the O'day? With both packages we would be installing the furler ourselves.

Thoughts?

Wes

 

[Shoaldrafter]

Hahaha! Very funny, good to see you here in the forums. You should know that I take spending your money very seriously! Almost as seriously as spending my money!!

I still can't decide if we should go the economical route:

CDI FF4 furler, with 135% genoa from sail warehouse, around $1500 total

http://www.thesailwarehouse.com/cgi-bin/web_store_packages.cgi

or the more expensive route:

Cross cut 135% genoa from Haarstick- $1700
Shaeffer snap-furl- $1100

Total- $2800

That's a really big price difference. I have no doubt that the Haarstick sail is a premium custom hand built sail, but are we going to see a lot of difference on the O'day? With both packages we would be installing the furler ourselves.

Thoughts?

Wes

Since you are considering alternatives:

Harkin furler?

Ed K
26

 

[wnance]

Since you are considering alternatives:

Harkin furler?

Ed K
26

I am considering the Harken 00al furler in the sail warehouse package that comes to around $1900. I'm looking through the Harken installation pdf right now to see how complex the install is. I've heard stories of guys having issues installing Harken furlers but I'm not sure if it's this 00al model (Harken's answer to DCI and Shaefer snap-furl) or the more expensive ones.

Wes

 

[islandplanetsails]

If you were one of our customers and trying to keep the expenditure limited I would suggest a higher quality sail combined with the CDI furler rather than spending the premium on the Harken. CDI makes a good product and I've never heard of any of the small keelboat owners that have them say anything other than good things. You could also look at something other than an "off the shelf" size. Depending on where you sail (prevailing winds and typical wind angles) and how you use your boat (relaxing with the spouse or club racing with your buddies) a smaller or larger sail could make more sense. In some venues like San Francisco we'll build a 125% headsail so the customer gets a rating credit and a 135% would be a bit more sail than he or she needs.

You should work with a sailmaker that will offer you some consultation on what is best for you.

Also keep in mind that your existing headsail size is not necessarily a good guideline for your next one. I've had many many customers tell me they thought their existing genoa was too big and made the boat heel too much. The reality the sail was way overdue for replacement, the draft had shifted aft, and it was bagged out. They couldn't trim the sail flat so they were overpowered and did not point well.

Your sailmaker should be able to spend some time with you and help you reach the right decisions.

 

[wnance]

If you were one of our customers and trying to keep the expenditure limited I would suggest a higher quality sail combined with the CDI furler rather than spending the premium on the Harken. CDI makes a good product and I've never heard of any of the small keelboat owners that have them say anything other than good things. You could also look at something other than an "off the shelf" size. Depending on where you sail (prevailing winds and typical wind angles) and how you use your boat (relaxing with the spouse or club racing with your buddies) a smaller or larger sail could make more sense. In some venues like San Francisco we'll build a 125% headsail so the customer gets a rating credit and a 135% would be a bit more sail than he or she needs.

You should work with a sailmaker that will offer you some consultation on what is best for you.

Also keep in mind that your existing headsail size is not necessarily a good guideline for your next one. I've had many many customers tell me they thought their existing genoa was too big and made the boat heel too much. The reality the sail was way overdue for replacement, the draft had shifted aft, and it was bagged out. They couldn't trim the sail flat so they were overpowered and did not point well.

Your sailmaker should be able to spend some time with you and help you reach the right decisions.

This is really great advice, thanks a lot!

I think we've made our decision-

I got a surprisingly good quote from North Sails Direct for a NorDac 4800 135% Genoa with Sunbrella UV cover, foam luff, reefing patches, and a telltale window, in 6 oz Dacron. The total price, including the CDI FF4 with ball bearing upgrade is right around $1680. I like this option a little better than
Sail Warehouse, which comes in right around the same price once you pay for Sunbrella UV and the ball bearing upgrade to the FF4, since I get North Sail's name, and a very good warranty on the sail. I think it would be a bit cheaper with just UV Dacron on the leech and foot instead of the Sunbrella.

We haven't placed our order yet, but this is what we're looking at.

Thanks for everybody's help!

Wes

 

[wnance]

Ordered

We ordered yesterday from Dan Calore at NorthSails Direct.

We got a 6oz Nordac 135% Genoa, with foam luff, reefing patches, tell tale window, and white Dacron UV cover. It has the full one year NorthSails warranty.

We also ordered the CDI FF4 furler with ball bearing option at the same time.

Price with tax and delivery was right around $1800.

Delivery is going to be early May, I'll report again when we get the furler and sail on the boat and we're sailing again.

Wes

 

[wnance]

Re: Ordered

Update:

We got the CDI and North Sails Genoa installed last week, and have been out for a few sails since then. We love the setup!

Some notes:

The CDI works just fine. We have the FF4 with ball bearings option. We had a bit of an adventure with it arriving in a coil. You're suppose to get it out of the box within a couple days and reverse bend it to release the bend from shipping wrapped in a coil. We were unable to do that do to some family things that were going on a the time. It had been in my garage in the box for almost 10 days, so I panicked, and had some of the guys from the family come unwrap it and reverse it, which resulted in a coil that was now around 10 feet across, but it all looked good, like the picture, and I thought all was well.

A couple days later I started to consider how to get this huge coil out to the boat! Oops. . . So my wife and I ended up threading it through the side windows of our minivan and around the roof and back in- so I still had about an 8 foot coil, but it was wrapped around my roof and into my car. That was quite the site. I should have taken a picture, cut didn't remember in all the self-created confusion! Getting it out of the car at the marina was just as adventurous, but we got the darn thing installed, and it only has a couple very slight bends that will work themselves out over time on the forestay.

The new sail from NorthSails Direct fits like a glove, there is really no extra length to be had, it is hard up against the top of the furler with just a little (an inch?) room at the drum, so couldn't have been measured more accurately. I was glad that it fit!

Sailing with this new 135 headsail is a completely new experience! Reaching hull speed seems quite easy in anything over 10kts or so of wind. We were out in onliy about 5-6 kts of wind the other day and were still doing close to 4 kts, so light air performance is greatly improved as well.

On another note, we ended up in the local paper while installing our sail on the furler, so that was a fun end to the story:

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=20105270341

See you on the lake!

Wes Nance
Rochester, NY