Hi We need to replace, following your advise, not rebuild, our 6 year old head.can you reccomend a good head brand to buy? Something mid priced, not necessarily the lowest priced unit. John Kudera sv 50/50, Forked River NJ
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Here's what I did
The pump on my Wilcox cheapie head just died, the housing cracked at the stuffing nut. I looked at replacing it with either a new cheap manual head, a new pump (around $100) or a new electric head. Instead I decided to try a Jabsco Electric Head Conversion, cost about $240 dollars with the adapter for my head and took about 10 minutes to install. Seems to work great, no more hand pumping. Peggy, how do these tings hold up long term?
The pump on my Wilcox cheapie head just died, the housing cracked at the stuffing nut. I looked at replacing it with either a new cheap manual head, a new pump (around $100) or a new electric head. Instead I decided to try a Jabsco Electric Head Conversion, cost about $240 dollars with the adapter for my head and took about 10 minutes to install. Seems to work great, no more hand pumping. Peggy, how do these tings hold up long term?
You actually replaced the pump...
About the only thing left of your original toilet is the bowl and the base. As for how well it holds up...it's a Jabsco. Nothing Jabsco makes is known for its impressive durability. Otoh, it only cost you half the price of any other electric macerating toilet 'cuz it's the only way to get one without buying an entire toilet. With any electric macerating toilet that uses sea water, be prepared for your holding tank to fill up in a fraction of the time it did with a manual toilet. Because intake pump on all of 'em use an impeller, and both the intake pump and the macerator run every time you hit the flush button, there's no way to flush on a "dry" setting without "frying" the intake impeller. Typically, a sea water macerating toilet puts about 1.5 gallons of flush water through the system to get the bowl contents to the tank...up to 3 gallons to send solids and paper all the way through the system and rinse out of the macerater completely--which is VERY important if you don't want to deal with clogs. Also be prepared to see a big increase in your electrical usage...average draw for a sea water macerating toilet is about 35 amps...90% of it used by the intake pump. Macerating toilets that offer a fresh water solenoid option eliminate both those problems, but I don't THINK that conversion kit does. And the toilets that do cost at least 3x what you paid. So you have some trade-offs, but pushing a button is certainly a lot easier than pumping a manual toilet.
About the only thing left of your original toilet is the bowl and the base. As for how well it holds up...it's a Jabsco. Nothing Jabsco makes is known for its impressive durability. Otoh, it only cost you half the price of any other electric macerating toilet 'cuz it's the only way to get one without buying an entire toilet. With any electric macerating toilet that uses sea water, be prepared for your holding tank to fill up in a fraction of the time it did with a manual toilet. Because intake pump on all of 'em use an impeller, and both the intake pump and the macerator run every time you hit the flush button, there's no way to flush on a "dry" setting without "frying" the intake impeller. Typically, a sea water macerating toilet puts about 1.5 gallons of flush water through the system to get the bowl contents to the tank...up to 3 gallons to send solids and paper all the way through the system and rinse out of the macerater completely--which is VERY important if you don't want to deal with clogs. Also be prepared to see a big increase in your electrical usage...average draw for a sea water macerating toilet is about 35 amps...90% of it used by the intake pump. Macerating toilets that offer a fresh water solenoid option eliminate both those problems, but I don't THINK that conversion kit does. And the toilets that do cost at least 3x what you paid. So you have some trade-offs, but pushing a button is certainly a lot easier than pumping a manual toilet.
Jabsco Electric Conversion
ES, I've had a Jabsco electric head conversion installed on my Catalina 38 for 3 years now. Never have had a bit of trouble with it. I have rebuilt the pump just once due to a small leak in the lower seal. The unit will pull about 20 amps while being used but is run such a short time that the amp/hour usage is a nit. We have anchored out for a week or more and have had no problems with power consumption. It does fill up the holding tank quickly, however. I think that I can address the longevity of this product - my wife and I live aboard so the toilet gets daily use. I keep a manual pump around as a spare "just in case" however. Rodney Kidd Catalina 38 #297, Flying Bear
ES, I've had a Jabsco electric head conversion installed on my Catalina 38 for 3 years now. Never have had a bit of trouble with it. I have rebuilt the pump just once due to a small leak in the lower seal. The unit will pull about 20 amps while being used but is run such a short time that the amp/hour usage is a nit. We have anchored out for a week or more and have had no problems with power consumption. It does fill up the holding tank quickly, however. I think that I can address the longevity of this product - my wife and I live aboard so the toilet gets daily use. I keep a manual pump around as a spare "just in case" however. Rodney Kidd Catalina 38 #297, Flying Bear
One More Thing
Peggie, The Jabsco conversion does have a dry bowl setting. There is a small bypass to supply the intake impeller with just enough water so that is does not "fry". The macerator side has more than enough pumping capacity dry the bowl in this mode. The conversion is operated by turning the control knob to the right to flush, and turning the control knob to the left dries the bowl. While doing the rebuild, I was impressed with the engineering that went into this thing. For instance, as you probably know, the intake pump is mounted above the motor. If the seal were to fail, you would think that water would run down into the motor and ruin it. The upper pump has a "slinger" or inverted cup mounted on the motor shaft to divert any water leaking past the seal. The water is then able to escape the pump body through slots in the housing. Conversely, the lower pump also incorporates protection for the motor by providing slots in the pump housing to allow water escaping past the lower seal to escape before it reaches the motor bearing. You know its time to rebuild when you notice water seeping out of either set of slots. The joker valve also has three "lips" rather than the normal two. Maybe Jabsco didn't engineer this thing! Rodney Kidd Catalina 38 #297, Flying Bear
Peggie, The Jabsco conversion does have a dry bowl setting. There is a small bypass to supply the intake impeller with just enough water so that is does not "fry". The macerator side has more than enough pumping capacity dry the bowl in this mode. The conversion is operated by turning the control knob to the right to flush, and turning the control knob to the left dries the bowl. While doing the rebuild, I was impressed with the engineering that went into this thing. For instance, as you probably know, the intake pump is mounted above the motor. If the seal were to fail, you would think that water would run down into the motor and ruin it. The upper pump has a "slinger" or inverted cup mounted on the motor shaft to divert any water leaking past the seal. The water is then able to escape the pump body through slots in the housing. Conversely, the lower pump also incorporates protection for the motor by providing slots in the pump housing to allow water escaping past the lower seal to escape before it reaches the motor bearing. You know its time to rebuild when you notice water seeping out of either set of slots. The joker valve also has three "lips" rather than the normal two. Maybe Jabsco didn't engineer this thing! Rodney Kidd Catalina 38 #297, Flying Bear
That's a recent improvement...and a good one
The inability to use "dry bowl" on sea water toilets has been the biggest drawback to 'em since the the beginning of the push toward holding tanks. I'm just surprised that Jabsco was the one to overcome it. You may be right that they didn't engineer it...Jabsco has long licensed foreign mfrs to make their toilets under a different brand name--the Canadian Bryden Boy was just one example. So it wouldn't surprise me to learn that they're doing the reverse of the same thing--building a foreign design under a licensing agreement to put the Jabsco name on it. I think you got a good deal. I don't know any other way you could have upgraded your toilet to electric for anything close to $240.
The inability to use "dry bowl" on sea water toilets has been the biggest drawback to 'em since the the beginning of the push toward holding tanks. I'm just surprised that Jabsco was the one to overcome it. You may be right that they didn't engineer it...Jabsco has long licensed foreign mfrs to make their toilets under a different brand name--the Canadian Bryden Boy was just one example. So it wouldn't surprise me to learn that they're doing the reverse of the same thing--building a foreign design under a licensing agreement to put the Jabsco name on it. I think you got a good deal. I don't know any other way you could have upgraded your toilet to electric for anything close to $240.
Re "longevity" Rodney...
The original Raritan Crown Head was the first macerating electric toilet, introduced about 35 years ago. Some of 'em are still working. And it's not at all unusual to see 10-15 year old units that have never even been rebuilt still working. THAT's longevity! 3 years is just barely broken in.
They're noisy contraptions, though...and both power AND water hungry. The Crown II, which has only been on the market 5-6 years, is a vast improvement on it. And you can't touch either one for less than $500-$600. So if you get more than 5 years out of yours, you'll be doing ok...if you get 10, you're ahead of the game.
The original Raritan Crown Head was the first macerating electric toilet, introduced about 35 years ago. Some of 'em are still working. And it's not at all unusual to see 10-15 year old units that have never even been rebuilt still working. THAT's longevity! 3 years is just barely broken in.
They're noisy contraptions, though...and both power AND water hungry. The Crown II, which has only been on the market 5-6 years, is a vast improvement on it. And you can't touch either one for less than $500-$600. So if you get more than 5 years out of yours, you'll be doing ok...if you get 10, you're ahead of the game.Longevity
Peggie, I'll keep you posted via this forum regarding the performance of the Jabsco conversion (if you're interested). Since we're livaboards, it will be an accelerated test. BTW, rebuild kits for the conversion are about $65 at West Marine. I don't think the boat will last 35 years let alone the toilet! Thanks, Rodney Kidd Catalina 38 #297 Flying Bear
Peggie, I'll keep you posted via this forum regarding the performance of the Jabsco conversion (if you're interested). Since we're livaboards, it will be an accelerated test. BTW, rebuild kits for the conversion are about $65 at West Marine. I don't think the boat will last 35 years let alone the toilet! Thanks, Rodney Kidd Catalina 38 #297 Flying Bear
Practical Sailor and I agree...
The best quality manual toilets under $500 are the Raritan PH II and the Raritan Cricket. They're both about the same the price: around $250 at discount. Although the PH II has always been rated the best, my personal preference is for the Cricket (which has only been on the market 5-6 years) because, instead of the usual piston cylinder pump beside the bowl, it has a diaphragm pump under the bowl...fits in the same space as a "compact" toilet--but is also available with the larger "highboy" (closer to household size) bowl...and there are no moving parts in a diaphragm pump to wear, virtually eliminating preventive maintenance. Check both of 'em out on the Raritan website at www.raritaneng.com
The best quality manual toilets under $500 are the Raritan PH II and the Raritan Cricket. They're both about the same the price: around $250 at discount. Although the PH II has always been rated the best, my personal preference is for the Cricket (which has only been on the market 5-6 years) because, instead of the usual piston cylinder pump beside the bowl, it has a diaphragm pump under the bowl...fits in the same space as a "compact" toilet--but is also available with the larger "highboy" (closer to household size) bowl...and there are no moving parts in a diaphragm pump to wear, virtually eliminating preventive maintenance. Check both of 'em out on the Raritan website at www.raritaneng.com
Believe it or not, Rodney...
Liveaboards have far. fewer problems with equipment, and equipment lasts longer, than "weekend warriors" do, 'cuz machinery, pumps, engines suffer more from sitting than from constant use. Fluids settle in machinery...seals, valves, impellers etc dry out and stick to the inside of housings...the first minute of use after something has sat for several days or weeks is harder on it than a month of continuous use. So you'll prob'ly get 10 years out of that toilet. And btw...I strongly suspect your boat will last 35 years...nothing on it will still be original--not much will still be original after 10 years--but fiberglass hulls last forever unless small problems like water leaks are neglected until they become major structural ones.
Liveaboards have far. fewer problems with equipment, and equipment lasts longer, than "weekend warriors" do, 'cuz machinery, pumps, engines suffer more from sitting than from constant use. Fluids settle in machinery...seals, valves, impellers etc dry out and stick to the inside of housings...the first minute of use after something has sat for several days or weeks is harder on it than a month of continuous use. So you'll prob'ly get 10 years out of that toilet. And btw...I strongly suspect your boat will last 35 years...nothing on it will still be original--not much will still be original after 10 years--but fiberglass hulls last forever unless small problems like water leaks are neglected until they become major structural ones.
Crown II head rebuild
Peggy, just wanted to ditto what you said about the Crown II head. I have just rebuilt one, found both 1992 and 1994 dates stamped on it, so it must be a very early one - the pump wall, a piece of plastic, was totally gone, but it was sort of still working. But with the new pump wall, I'm afraid to stand too close when I flush! The Crown II is definately quality, porcelain, stainless steel, and bronze, nothing to ever wear completely out with regular maintenance. However, seems that the Crown II is not as popular as others, so have to special order the part kits, at least in the New Orleans area.
Peggy, just wanted to ditto what you said about the Crown II head. I have just rebuilt one, found both 1992 and 1994 dates stamped on it, so it must be a very early one - the pump wall, a piece of plastic, was totally gone, but it was sort of still working. But with the new pump wall, I'm afraid to stand too close when I flush! The Crown II is definately quality, porcelain, stainless steel, and bronze, nothing to ever wear completely out with regular maintenance. However, seems that the Crown II is not as popular as others, so have to special order the part kits, at least in the New Orleans area.
I prob'ly ought to clarify "pump wall"
The name is a bit deceving and could lead someone who isn't familiar with it to think you're referring to part of the toilet hardware. It's not--the pump wall is an internal part, included in the rebuild kit, that looks a bit like a CD with a large center hole, and acts a bit like a diaphragm. They were originally made of polyethylene, but over time they cracked due to flexing...and pieces of it ended up in the macerator. New ones are neoprene, much more durable. I'm not surprised that rebuild kits for the Crown II are hard to find. Most of buyers haven't even managed to figure out yet that there are 3 models of the original Crown--the original Standard, the Deep Draft, and the current Centrifugal Discharge model.... They think the kit for the Standard model is the "standard" kit...so that's all they ever stock. Then I get calls from people who can't figure out why the parts in the kit don't match the parts in their toilet. They prob'ly think the "standard" kit also fits the Crown II.
The name is a bit deceving and could lead someone who isn't familiar with it to think you're referring to part of the toilet hardware. It's not--the pump wall is an internal part, included in the rebuild kit, that looks a bit like a CD with a large center hole, and acts a bit like a diaphragm. They were originally made of polyethylene, but over time they cracked due to flexing...and pieces of it ended up in the macerator. New ones are neoprene, much more durable. I'm not surprised that rebuild kits for the Crown II are hard to find. Most of buyers haven't even managed to figure out yet that there are 3 models of the original Crown--the original Standard, the Deep Draft, and the current Centrifugal Discharge model.... They think the kit for the Standard model is the "standard" kit...so that's all they ever stock. Then I get calls from people who can't figure out why the parts in the kit don't match the parts in their toilet. They prob'ly think the "standard" kit also fits the Crown II.
Jabsco Conversion
I converted my Jabsco push button electric toilet to the relatively new "quiet flush toilet" from Jabsco. Purchased through Defender the conversion kit costs about $350 and consists of a base that can accept most toilet bowls by other manufactures, two pumps( one macerator and one water) and a switch. The switch has a push button that runs both pumps at the same time for flushing and a rocker switch that selects the pumps seperately for eather emptying or filling the bowl. The water pump can be installed anywhere in the intake line before the vented loop. The macerator pump is attached to the base. The switch is meant to be installed on a bulkhead. I can't address the longevity issue, but this thing flat out removes the things you want removed from the toilet bowl. Keep hands and feet away from toilet when flushing and do not flush while seated. Good luck with your replacement or conversion. A.B.
I converted my Jabsco push button electric toilet to the relatively new "quiet flush toilet" from Jabsco. Purchased through Defender the conversion kit costs about $350 and consists of a base that can accept most toilet bowls by other manufactures, two pumps( one macerator and one water) and a switch. The switch has a push button that runs both pumps at the same time for flushing and a rocker switch that selects the pumps seperately for eather emptying or filling the bowl. The water pump can be installed anywhere in the intake line before the vented loop. The macerator pump is attached to the base. The switch is meant to be installed on a bulkhead. I can't address the longevity issue, but this thing flat out removes the things you want removed from the toilet bowl. Keep hands and feet away from toilet when flushing and do not flush while seated. Good luck with your replacement or conversion. A.B.
Raritan has just introduced a new toilet
An "economy" macerating toilet they call the Sea Era. It's a direct replacement/upgrade for a Jabsco...fits in the same space...even the mounting bolt patterns match. I saw it in prototype on the bench last year, but I haven't seen it since it went into production--so I can't comment on its reliability/durability yet (however, all Raritan products have always proven to be the most reliable/durable on the market...so it's safe bet this one is no exception). And I don't have pricing on it yet, but Raritan toilets have always been reasonably priced--higher than comparable low-end models, but worth the difference. It just went up on the Raritan website...www.raritaneng.com If you're in the market, it's definitely worth taking a good hard look at before you buy anything else.
An "economy" macerating toilet they call the Sea Era. It's a direct replacement/upgrade for a Jabsco...fits in the same space...even the mounting bolt patterns match. I saw it in prototype on the bench last year, but I haven't seen it since it went into production--so I can't comment on its reliability/durability yet (however, all Raritan products have always proven to be the most reliable/durable on the market...so it's safe bet this one is no exception). And I don't have pricing on it yet, but Raritan toilets have always been reasonably priced--higher than comparable low-end models, but worth the difference. It just went up on the Raritan website...www.raritaneng.com If you're in the market, it's definitely worth taking a good hard look at before you buy anything else.
New Raritan Head
Hi Peg - the new Raritan SeaEra toilet goes into production on Dec. 15th; should be in West Marine, Boats U.S., etc., by the first of the year. Price will be competitive with JABSCO and other similar mid-range electric macerating toilets. The big difference is in the supply water pump for seawater-flushing models. It can be run dry without damage! No more burnt up impellers and scored inner pump housings!
Hi Peg - the new Raritan SeaEra toilet goes into production on Dec. 15th; should be in West Marine, Boats U.S., etc., by the first of the year. Price will be competitive with JABSCO and other similar mid-range electric macerating toilets. The big difference is in the supply water pump for seawater-flushing models. It can be run dry without damage! No more burnt up impellers and scored inner pump housings!
Hi Vic..And WELCOME!!
I'm absolutely delighted to introduce you to the group! Vic Willman is the Tech Services Manager at Raritan. He's been there 25 years, in various functions. And if there's any question he can't answer about Raritan equipment, NObody can! The new Sea Era toilet looks VERY interesting! And if what I saw in bench tests last year is any indication, it should knock the socks off anything else within $300 of its price range.
I'm absolutely delighted to introduce you to the group! Vic Willman is the Tech Services Manager at Raritan. He's been there 25 years, in various functions. And if there's any question he can't answer about Raritan equipment, NObody can! The new Sea Era toilet looks VERY interesting! And if what I saw in bench tests last year is any indication, it should knock the socks off anything else within $300 of its price range.
New Raritan Head
Hi Peg, thanks for the kind words, and thanks for telling everyone how long I've been with Raritan...some pal you are! (Peggie and I are the same age, somewhere between 40 and death but neither of us will say just where...) Actually, earlier this month, I marked my 29th year with Raritan (I was only 12 when I came onboard....I wish!). With respect to our new SeaEra head, you'll find that it is even more impressive than the bench model you saw last year, particularly the version that works on pressurized fresh water ...QUIETER than your toilet at home. Peg, I won't clutter up your forum with my propaganda but with your permission, will comment from time to time. Have a nice weekend!
Hi Peg, thanks for the kind words, and thanks for telling everyone how long I've been with Raritan...some pal you are! (Peggie and I are the same age, somewhere between 40 and death but neither of us will say just where...) Actually, earlier this month, I marked my 29th year with Raritan (I was only 12 when I came onboard....I wish!). With respect to our new SeaEra head, you'll find that it is even more impressive than the bench model you saw last year, particularly the version that works on pressurized fresh water ...QUIETER than your toilet at home. Peg, I won't clutter up your forum with my propaganda but with your permission, will comment from time to time. Have a nice weekend!
Hi Vic!
Thanks for stopping by! Please feel welcome here. There's no question you have a lot to contribute to all the owners here and if a little propoganda gets mixed in... well, I'm sure we'll all live... Hope to see you here again soon!
Thanks for stopping by! Please feel welcome here. There's no question you have a lot to contribute to all the owners here and if a little propoganda gets mixed in... well, I'm sure we'll all live...
Hope to see you here again soon!- Status