Will spring ever get here???? We use our boat for 2-4 days at a time. I am considering a West Marine 12 volt Thermoelectric Cooler to replace the use of ice. I am curious as to the amount of time it takes to cool down if the items are already cold? I would like to keep the unit on the boat and not have to lug it back and forth every weekend. I would transport food/drinks from home in a iced cooler. I am also curious to know how long my Battery will last. I have 2 batteries. One is dedicated to the TV/VCR. The other is for lights, marine radio, stereo, and depth finder. This one usually lasts 2-3 weekends and would like to hook the new electric cooler up to. The West Marine Advisor says these units will draw 4.6A. Not being an Electrician this means little to me. I alternate taking home batteries. One every weekend.(What a pain,but worth the comforts they provide). I also have a switch that allows me to change from one to the other or both batteries. If one gets low, I borrow from the other one. Any information about this new application will be appreciated. By the way, my BEER has it's own cooler. It WILL be kept on ice. The second question is about solar panels. West Marine also has an assortment of Solar Panels. I am looking at units under $200.00 to try to eliminate taking these batteries home. (Yea, I'm poor but lazy). Again not being an electrical engeneer, the charging information means nothing to me. Would a solar panel with Max Watts-10, Rated Current-0.61, Approx Ah/Day-3.7, self regulating unit keep my 2 batteries charged? And does self regulating mean I won't have to worry about over charging and/or not draining the batteries at night or on cloudy days? Would I be able to charge both batteries at the same time? Any advice on this topic would be appreciated.
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Tim Schaaf
some ideas
Allan, adding refrigeration is the point at which basic electrical systems become much more complicated and costly. Many have sailed around the world without nothing more than ice, if that. Your batteries each have an "amp/hour"rating. You should use no more than half of that. I doubt that your batteries are larger than group 27, which will have a rating of about 100 amp/hours. Since you can only plan on a half of that, your cooler will only be able to run for about 11 hours, per battery, between FULLY charging, less if you only charge up to 85% of the battery, for example. This also assumes that you are using "deep cycle" batteries, without which all bets are off. Yes, a panel will keep your batteries charged. But, the little panel that you refer to will probably only put about 2 to 3 amp hours back in the batteries each day. You will need something a bit bigger. "Self-regulating panels" are also much less productive when they get hot...you will probably want to get a panel that needs a small regulator. By the way, good as West Marine is to all of us, it is not a particularly inexpensive source for solar stuff. I would recommend an outfit in San Diego, Solar Electric Inc. for some really good prices. It is their business, after all! I use them quite a bit. There are other aspects of your system that will need upgrading, and I would suggest you study the whole matter closely before making the leap...it isn't going to be cheap. And, the batteries you are going to need may seriously weigh your boat down...and I don't imagine you have much margin for that on a 23 footer. There are good books on this subject. You want to figure the whole thing out before hand. Half measures will wind up causing you much frustration while costing a fortune. Drop me a line if you need some help on this.
Allan, adding refrigeration is the point at which basic electrical systems become much more complicated and costly. Many have sailed around the world without nothing more than ice, if that. Your batteries each have an "amp/hour"rating. You should use no more than half of that. I doubt that your batteries are larger than group 27, which will have a rating of about 100 amp/hours. Since you can only plan on a half of that, your cooler will only be able to run for about 11 hours, per battery, between FULLY charging, less if you only charge up to 85% of the battery, for example. This also assumes that you are using "deep cycle" batteries, without which all bets are off. Yes, a panel will keep your batteries charged. But, the little panel that you refer to will probably only put about 2 to 3 amp hours back in the batteries each day. You will need something a bit bigger. "Self-regulating panels" are also much less productive when they get hot...you will probably want to get a panel that needs a small regulator. By the way, good as West Marine is to all of us, it is not a particularly inexpensive source for solar stuff. I would recommend an outfit in San Diego, Solar Electric Inc. for some really good prices. It is their business, after all! I use them quite a bit. There are other aspects of your system that will need upgrading, and I would suggest you study the whole matter closely before making the leap...it isn't going to be cheap. And, the batteries you are going to need may seriously weigh your boat down...and I don't imagine you have much margin for that on a 23 footer. There are good books on this subject. You want to figure the whole thing out before hand. Half measures will wind up causing you much frustration while costing a fortune. Drop me a line if you need some help on this.
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Frank
Solar Panel
We have the unisolar 10 watt flexible panel for our boat. It will keep up the system for weekend use for lights and radios, and pumps. For a 5 amp continuous draw appliance like you mention here you may want to get a 50 watt solar panel and four batteries and a charge controller. That should handle the electric cooler, tv , radio and lights. But all that complication and expense seems like it is not worth it to me. I would just recommend a 10 watt charger wired to your batteries and one of the new really well insulated coolers that keep ice for five days.
We have the unisolar 10 watt flexible panel for our boat. It will keep up the system for weekend use for lights and radios, and pumps. For a 5 amp continuous draw appliance like you mention here you may want to get a 50 watt solar panel and four batteries and a charge controller. That should handle the electric cooler, tv , radio and lights. But all that complication and expense seems like it is not worth it to me. I would just recommend a 10 watt charger wired to your batteries and one of the new really well insulated coolers that keep ice for five days.
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Dick Vance
Frozen Simplicity
Allen, Smaller boats with outboard power have real limitations when it comes to electrical power as I'm sure you already know. I have given a lot of thought to just how far I could go electrically with my OB powered 25.5 and always arrive at the same result: without the recharging ability of an inboard diesel, adding much additional electrical capacity is either too expensive; too heavy; too complicated or all the above! A good and inexpensive solution is to freeze water in 1 gallon plastic jugs and put them in your icebox/coolers. Blocks of ice will hold longer than crushed and when the jugs thaw, you have good drinking water instead of waste water into the bilge/bottom of the cooler. Some of the standard milk jugs are pretty thin plastic and I like to use the thicker plastic ones that some bottled drinking water comes in. These can be found in any supermarket. One thought, it is tempting to use dry ice but there has been discussions about the possibilty of CO2 fumes displacing the oxygen in a closed cabin. Whether this is a risk or not, frozen water jugs gives you the double benefit of longer lasting ice and drinking water, is safe, and you only have to carry about half the weight of ice and water brought separately. Dick Vance H-25.5 "Honey Bear"
Allen, Smaller boats with outboard power have real limitations when it comes to electrical power as I'm sure you already know. I have given a lot of thought to just how far I could go electrically with my OB powered 25.5 and always arrive at the same result: without the recharging ability of an inboard diesel, adding much additional electrical capacity is either too expensive; too heavy; too complicated or all the above! A good and inexpensive solution is to freeze water in 1 gallon plastic jugs and put them in your icebox/coolers. Blocks of ice will hold longer than crushed and when the jugs thaw, you have good drinking water instead of waste water into the bilge/bottom of the cooler. Some of the standard milk jugs are pretty thin plastic and I like to use the thicker plastic ones that some bottled drinking water comes in. These can be found in any supermarket. One thought, it is tempting to use dry ice but there has been discussions about the possibilty of CO2 fumes displacing the oxygen in a closed cabin. Whether this is a risk or not, frozen water jugs gives you the double benefit of longer lasting ice and drinking water, is safe, and you only have to carry about half the weight of ice and water brought separately. Dick Vance H-25.5 "Honey Bear"
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Allen Glasson
Frank of N. Carolina
Thanks, for all the imput. I think the electric cooler is out - not worth the trouble. Frank, do you keep your 10W solar panel hooked up all the time, or just when you are on the boat? If all the time, do you use a regulator? Also, how many batteries do you charge? Can you charge 2 at a time?
Thanks, for all the imput. I think the electric cooler is out - not worth the trouble. Frank, do you keep your 10W solar panel hooked up all the time, or just when you are on the boat? If all the time, do you use a regulator? Also, how many batteries do you charge? Can you charge 2 at a time?
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Greg Ketley
Cold beer
In my past boats without refrigeration I would freeze beer in cans and put them in a cooler. They would stay cold for days in a cheap styrofoam cooler that was left closed. I also used frozen beer in place of ice in the food cooler. No water mess and cold beer!!Freezing beer didn't seem to alter the taste and unless put into a deep freeze for an extened period of time the cans did not deform or leak. Sounds weird but it worked for me! ggk H-34 "Seabew"
In my past boats without refrigeration I would freeze beer in cans and put them in a cooler. They would stay cold for days in a cheap styrofoam cooler that was left closed. I also used frozen beer in place of ice in the food cooler. No water mess and cold beer!!Freezing beer didn't seem to alter the taste and unless put into a deep freeze for an extened period of time the cans did not deform or leak. Sounds weird but it worked for me! ggk H-34 "Seabew"
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Frank
Solar Panel and frozen beer
I use a 10 watt Unisolar flexible panel that I keep plugged in unless I am towing the boat. It is the largest size I would use with out a controller on a 70 amp hour battery. It would be ok for up to a 200 amp hour system for very light loads. The key is to have the solar panel current less than 1.5% of the amp hour battery bank rating. If this is true you don't need a controler. If you want to charge faster then you'll need more panels and a controler. I think Bud freezes the best of any beer, and the cans rarely deform.
I use a 10 watt Unisolar flexible panel that I keep plugged in unless I am towing the boat. It is the largest size I would use with out a controller on a 70 amp hour battery. It would be ok for up to a 200 amp hour system for very light loads. The key is to have the solar panel current less than 1.5% of the amp hour battery bank rating. If this is true you don't need a controler. If you want to charge faster then you'll need more panels and a controler. I think Bud freezes the best of any beer, and the cans rarely deform.
10W Unisolar panel
I keep my panel connected all the time. It keeps two 100Ah batteries properly charged, and yet is small enough to avoid overcharging. Maintenance is a check of the distilled water level every 3 months. I sail with a tillerpilot and at night so my batteries are essential. I have not had any problems with the panel in two years of daysailing. For continuous use/extended cruising I would upgrade to a 50W panel though. Peter S/V Raven
I keep my panel connected all the time. It keeps two 100Ah batteries properly charged, and yet is small enough to avoid overcharging. Maintenance is a check of the distilled water level every 3 months. I sail with a tillerpilot and at night so my batteries are essential. I have not had any problems with the panel in two years of daysailing. For continuous use/extended cruising I would upgrade to a 50W panel though. Peter S/V Raven
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Jim Malcolm
block ice
Although I have never tried this on a boat, my wife and I use to freeze blocks of ice in our home freeze (top loading type)for our camping trips. I used plastic dishpans and would line them with plastic bags. We had two Coleman coolers-one we called the freezer and the the other we used for food. We got a dish pan and a cooler combo that carried 4 or 5 blocks, plus one in the food cooler. During a two week trip, we would use up all blocks. As the food cooler block melted, we would replace it with one from the "ice chest." Normally, it took us about two weeks to freeze enough blocks--about two days per block. Tried to freeze two blocks at once, one time and almost thawed everything in the freezer. Wife wasn't happy. BTW we tried milk jugs but they got too brittle and cracked.
Although I have never tried this on a boat, my wife and I use to freeze blocks of ice in our home freeze (top loading type)for our camping trips. I used plastic dishpans and would line them with plastic bags. We had two Coleman coolers-one we called the freezer and the the other we used for food. We got a dish pan and a cooler combo that carried 4 or 5 blocks, plus one in the food cooler. During a two week trip, we would use up all blocks. As the food cooler block melted, we would replace it with one from the "ice chest." Normally, it took us about two weeks to freeze enough blocks--about two days per block. Tried to freeze two blocks at once, one time and almost thawed everything in the freezer. Wife wasn't happy. BTW we tried milk jugs but they got too brittle and cracked.
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Janel
Save Your Power - Block Ice and Coleman Extreme
I stumbled upon an awesome product last year. A Coleman 34 Extreme Cooler! I can put a solid store bought block of ice in it and load it up and it will keep for 10 days out in the sun as long as the lid is locked down. Save your power. The darn thing was only $32 at a local sporting goods store. But be sure to get the "Extreme" or you're not getting the right cooler. The sides are a little thicker so it holds a little less and it doesn't have a drain plug to let in warm air but it's worth it. Actually, I have 2 on board -- one for food and one for beer! And they bungee on the top of the cabin hatch extremely well -- even in the rockiest conditions! Ms. Toad's Wild Ride SF Bay, California
I stumbled upon an awesome product last year. A Coleman 34 Extreme Cooler! I can put a solid store bought block of ice in it and load it up and it will keep for 10 days out in the sun as long as the lid is locked down. Save your power. The darn thing was only $32 at a local sporting goods store. But be sure to get the "Extreme" or you're not getting the right cooler. The sides are a little thicker so it holds a little less and it doesn't have a drain plug to let in warm air but it's worth it. Actually, I have 2 on board -- one for food and one for beer! And they bungee on the top of the cabin hatch extremely well -- even in the rockiest conditions! Ms. Toad's Wild Ride SF Bay, California
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