New forum member with an introduction and some questions

[smokey73]

The next question is the boat… we settled on wanting the following features: 29 feet or less (any longer and slip fees jump 50%),

If the slip fee is an issue (ie 50% jump) then see if you can determine how they measure length for slip purposes. Some marina's use hull length and some include "overall length" including anchor roller, davits etc. Some accept what you tell them, others "measure" the boat and a few have even changed policies resulting in increased fees after the change. Just wouldn't want you to be surprised afte the purchase. I think there's an old discussion about this somewhere on this forum.

 

[rgranger]

If you are not going to trailer the boat and if you lake has deep water, you may find that you prefer to stay away from the swing keel and/or water ballast boats and go with a more traditional fixed keel boat. They sail better and are more comfortable under sail. If that is the case the only boats on the list I gave above is the Hunter 270 and the fixed keel version of the Catalina 250. The Hunter 270 is essentially the same as the 260 but with a fixed shoal draft wing keel.

But some other boats with walk-off transoms under 29' (that are not water ballast swing keels to consider) are

The Hunter 25

The Hunter 27

The Hunter 27-2

The Hunter 27-3

And then Hunter 28, 28.5 and 290

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat?paginate=25&filter%5Bname%5D=Hunter&sort=name&page=2

Similarly you have a range of choices in Catalina and O'days

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat?filter%5Bname%5D=Catalina&paginate=25&units=imperial&sort=name

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat?filter%5Bname%5D=O%27day&paginate=25&units=imperial&sort=name

 

[rgranger]

... but the inboard motor makes me nervous as far as ease of maintenance goes.

I'm in the same boat

 

[NINEv2]

If you are not going to trailer the boat and if you lake has deep water, you may find that you prefer to stay away from the swing keel and/or water ballast boats and go with a more traditional fixed keel boat. They sail better and are more comfortable under sail. If that is the case the only boats on the list I gave above is the Hunter 270 and the fixed keel version of the Catalina 250. The Hunter 270 is essentially the same as the 260 but with a fixed shoal draft wing keel.

But some other boats with walk-off transoms under 29' (that are not water ballast swing keels to consider) are

The Hunter 25
View attachment 182789

The Hunter 27
View attachment 182790

The Hunter 27-2
View attachment 182791

The Hunter 27-3
View attachment 182792

And then Hunter 28, 28.5 and 290

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat?paginate=25&filter%5Bname%5D=Hunter&sort=name&page=2

Similarly you have a range of choices in Catalina and O'days

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat?filter%5Bname%5D=Catalina&paginate=25&units=imperial&sort=name

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat?filter%5Bname%5D=O%27day&paginate=25&units=imperial&sort=name

The H27s are definitely in the conversation too, but the most recent are pretty far out of our price range. Sharp looking boats though. As far as swing vs fixed keel we're looking at Flathead in MT, no great lakes for us. Lake depth is about 300 max I think.

 

[rgranger]

The H27s are definitely in the conversation too, but the most recent are pretty far out of our price range. Sharp looking boats though. As far as swing vs fixed keel we're looking at Flathead in MT, no great lakes for us. Lake depth is about 300 max I think.

If it were me and this was my list of priorities in the lake you are looking to sail in..., I think I'd look for a fixed keel boat with less than 4.5' of draft. But every decision is a trade-off.

I like to trailer to new places so the water ballast is helpful... and I like to explore estuaries that are often shoal so the swing keel is also a plus... but I give up some stability and comfort under sail.

Have you found "Sailboatlistings.com" yet? Good site to research market values but unfortunately it does not have a search field for draft.... you can limit your search by asking price and it does tell you the draft so you can still make a good decision.

 

[NINEv2]

If it were me and this was my list of priorities in the lake you are looking to sail in..., I think I'd look for a fixed keel boat with less than 4.5' of draft. But every decision is a trade-off.

I like to trailer to new places so the water ballast is helpful... and I like to explore estuaries that are often shoal so the swing keel is also a plus... but I give up some stability and comfort under sail.

Have you found "Sailboatlistings.com" yet? Good site to research market values but unfortunately it does not have a search field for draft.... you can limit your search by asking price and it does tell you the draft so you can still make a good decision.

I have. And it's a pretty effective productivity killer. Since Flathead is so (relatively) small is the fixed vs swing keel that significant of an issue? We don't have any intentions of taking the boat elsewhere, and the price of a swing keel seems a bit lower on the newer boats. Draft wouldn't be an issue then either.

 

[Terry Cox]

I've been looking at those as well. They seem to fit our price (mostly), but the inboard motor makes me nervous as far as ease of maintenance goes. Or is that something that is completely irrelavent and a rookie mistake?

The Yanmar 2GM diesel on the H28 I found to be fairly easy to work on. Good engine access, very reliable, and thrifty fuel consumption compared to an outboard.

 

[rgranger]

Since Flathead is so (relatively) small is the fixed vs swing keel that significant of an issue?

If your swing keel is also your ballast, then the only real difference is the swing keel is one more system to maintain. and the pivot bolt will need regular replacement of the gasket or you will have a wet bilge after sailing. And the keel winch is usually in the way. If you have a swing keel water-ballast boat then there are real differences in performance. The water ballast boats have little (no) righting force when they are sitting flat and need to heel before you get any righting effect from the ballast. The righting effect increases with heel so at first they seem like they want to tip over and even at anchor they are very tipsy. But once you get to about 7 degrees of heel they stiffen up and feel "normal". My H26 is rather fast in a light breeze and I will do 4 kts in a 6 kts breeze but I seldom get her above 5.9 kts unless I'm really pushing her but I have seen 6.5 once. The H26 also points surprisingly well. I am also starting to reef at 15 mph wind and in a fixed ballast boat of similar size and with proper trim I'd probably push that to 20. On the other hand, when lake sailing you are usually in the 10 mph breeze range so ....

I guess the key to making a good choice is to accept that every design decision is a compramise. Decide how you want to sail and where you want to sail bla bla bla. I think you already presented a good list of priorities. You may not care if it is swing or fixed and/water ballast or not. What was definitely true for me is I didn't know what I really wanted out of my boat when I bought my first boat. So maybe you find a nice boat, in decent shape, ready to sail and not very expensive. Then go sailing and find out what you really like about it and what drives you nuts. Then sell it and start this process over with a clearer picture of what you want.

It is a very personal decision. To my way of thinking the swing keel boats were designed for trailering and since you don't plan to trailer, they don't have much of an advantage. However, I love to nudge up into the salt marsh and anchor so the swing keel has a alternative advantage for the way I like to sail... the ability to get into very shallow water.

 

[NINEv2]

Honestly? The choice was made to get us some space in that area of the country. And we're looking at it exactly as you described it: let's give this a shot and see how much we like it. If we really dig it, after a few years we can try to upgrade. I remember enjoying all the sailing time I had as a kid (now my brother, HE'S a natural with a sailboat), quick looked at the costs involved and decided this is the route to go. I'm not looking to win any races or anything, just be snug warm and comfortable for 3-5 days at a time while being able to actually get out on the water (safely!) And without the ability to trailer, the only real difference a dagger/swing keel makes is access to shallow water. May be handy in the even of an emergency.

 

[NINEv2]

Welcome aboard. And to help you out, I am going to move this to the general forum 'Ask All Sailors'. Here you will get a better sampling of many boat owners with different types of boats.

Hi @NINEv2, and welcome! Go to Resources for owners of Hunter. Photos, downloads, owner modifications, accessories, boats for sale, and more. and click on the Owner Resources tab. Click the 260 link over on the right. One of the things you'll find are owner reviews and there should be a bunch of them for the 260.

And thanks to you two as well as everyone else for your help!

 

[NINEv2]

One more question and I'll stop babbling. I've seen 'shore power' as an option in the old brochures for the boats I'm looking at. I guess I just assumed this was standard, especially for liveaboards. If we find a boat we like without it, can this be added later at a reasonable cost?

 

[Anonymous User 801]

Do you have experience living full time on a small boat or in a tiny house? I'm a solo sailor, and 32' is right at the floor of what I could do (at least as a "liveaboard"), comfortably. I'm fine on a pocket cruiser for passages, but when you're living there full time, comfort and living space becomes more important.

For one thing, stuff like closet or storage space for personal items becomes an issue on a small boat. I don't have a ton of clothes, and I barely have enough closet space just for my stuff. The head is also tiny, and unless the woman is used to the lifestyle, I find females tend to need more personal hygiene space and they find my 32' too cramped.

Another thing to consider is that more and more municipalities in the United States are making it more difficult for people to live on boats. It's actually getting ridiculous in California. Many Marina's have quotas on how many people are allowed to live aboard, and that number seems to get smaller every year--and if it's in a popular area, the wait list could be unreasonably long. Some people do stealth live aboard, but if you get a pedantic neighbor who tattles on you, or someone who just wants to be a jerk, this would be a headache I know I wouldn't want. If you're in a salt water area you could just find some place to anchor (and move every week or so), but on a lake you'd have no place to escape to if the authorities decided to start hassling you.

Just a few thoughts in case you hadn't considered them. I know of couples who are perfectly fine on a small boat, and you may be one of them, but personally I wouldn't want to live aboard with another person on anything smaller than a 36 footer.

 

[NINEv2]

Good points, all. We're just looking for maybe a week at most at a time, not a true liveaboard. A 'floating cabin in the woods' if you will. Just had the discussion with the missus actually about an onboard shower and she's good without it. So from a cost point of view, as this will be our first boat, we're trying to keep the $ down. Anything we'd have to add after purchase just adds to the cost, so I'm wondering about the shore power options/umbilical.

 

[shemandr]

My Hunter had a walk thru transom and it was one of my favorite features of the boat.
But you should consider the basics first. Buy a clean boat. It should have a smooth bottom. No deck issues. It should be fun to sail - which means it can go upwind. No odor from the head. Expect to buy sails but don't do it right away. Standing rigging on a lake boat is likely to be in good shape.
If I read it right your intended use is
on a 300’ deep lake? I’d get the keel boat.

 

[rgranger]

If we find a boat we like without it, can this be added later at a reasonable cost?

Here is an article walking through the step...

DIY Shore Power | West Marine

West Marine is committed to outfitting your life on the water. With over 250 store locations, 100,000 products in stock, and knowledgeable Associates, trust West Marine for your boating, sailing, fishing, or paddling needs. Shop with confidence - get free shipping to home or stores + price match...

www.westmarine.com

You can decide what options you want and then price it out.

Regarding a shower on board Something I've done (and it works very well) is to take a garden sprayer (like this one) and remove the wand and buy the necessary adapters to put a garden hose nozzle on the end. Then paint the bottle black. Fill it with water and bungee it to a stanchion for the day. When it is time to get ready for bed, you have 5 gallons of warm water you can pressurize and spray yourself down with in the cockpit. Soap, rinse, repeat. Nothing quite as nice as going to bed clean and getting all of the stale sunscreen off of your skin. We also take the "bottle shower" with us camping.

 

[NINEv2]

My Hunter had a walk thru transom and it was one of my favorite features of the boat.
But you should consider the basics first. Buy a clean boat. It should have a smooth bottom. No deck issues. It should be fun to sail - which means it can go upwind. No odor from the head. Expect to buy sails but don't do it right away. Standing rigging on a lake boat is likely to be in good shape.
If I read it right your intended use is
on a 300’ deep lake? I’d get the keel boat.

The walk thru is key. A non-stank head would be nice too...

Regarding a shower on board Something I've done (and it works very well) is to take a garden sprayer (like this one) and remove the wand and buy the necessary adapters to put a garden hose nozzle on the end. Then paint the bottle black. Fill it with water and bungee it to a stanchion for the day. When it is time to get ready for bed, you have 5 gallons of warm water you can pressurize and spray yourself down with in the cockpit. Soap, rinse, repeat. Nothing quite as nice as going to bed clean and getting all of the stale sunscreen off of your skin. We also take the "bottle shower" with us camping.

That's... a really good idea. Thanks.

 

[dLj]

I quite agree with @Michael Anthony - my bottom size for weekending is about 30 feet, and that has to be a well laid out 30 footer... Back when I was a teenager I imagine I would have been fine in about any sized boat but now I'm older and comfort becomes a higher priority.

Anything under about 30 feet is really just like camping. If you are fine with spending the time on the water camping, then small is fine. I've seen folks put a flat platform on a windrider 17 (that's an open cockpit trimaran) and go off for weeks. When they sleep they put up a tent on the platform and voila! A cabin!

As far as installing shore power in a boat that doesn't have it, I'd advise against it from what you've been posting. There are plenty of boats out there that have it. There are a number of details needed to properly install a shore power setup on a boat.

dj

 

[rgranger]

So I got curious and did a CL search with your budget and length parameters... looks like you have several options in your area

central MI boats - craigslist

central MI boats - craigslist

centralmich.craigslist.org

 

[rgranger]

My choice would be this one...

1991 Catalina 28 Tall Rig Sailboat - boats - by owner - marine sale

Norteña (Northern Girl) is Available for Purchase 1991 Catalina 28 Tall Rig/Wing Keel Universal...

nmi.craigslist.org

The only button it does not tick off is an outboard

 

[dLj]

My choice would be this one...

1991 Catalina 28 Tall Rig Sailboat - boats - by owner - marine sale

Norteña (Northern Girl) is Available for Purchase 1991 Catalina 28 Tall Rig/Wing Keel Universal...

nmi.craigslist.org

The only button it does not tick off is an outboard

I was looking through your list and that is one fine looking boat! With the tall rig that baby is going to sail nice! I was going to post that this is the one I'd put on the top of my list if I was the OP... Great find @rgranger !

dj