New Cruising Sails - Are you considering them for 2021?

[jssailem]

It is getting a little late to be calling the Sail Loft if you are thinking about new sails for the start of the 2021 Season. Best to get going and really start to explore the issue.

Sails are the way sail boats are powered.

Have you delayed cause you are not sure what to say to the Sail Guy?

You may be like me two seasons ago. Starting to look at your sails before the season starts. The sails are getting long in the tooth, perhaps a little blown out. Maybe you can look at the sails and see what looks like swiss cheese when the sun shines through the cloth. You have heard you can get more out of your boat, sailing will be more fun, but where to start?

Thoughts that caused my delay have been:

• How much will they coast?
• Is there enough money in the budget?
• I do not know a lot about how sails are made what questions should I be asking?
• How two choose the cloth or laminate for my boat, for my way of sailing?
• Do I ask the forum sailors where to buy sails for my boat?
• What if I just wait another season?
• What about used sails?
• Where do I go to get good information but without pressure to buy them?
• Do I use the internet and buy online?
• Why do the guys on the dock say I should talk to a local sail loft?

There are many questions and just as many recommendations.

One way to learn is watch a video on sails. I recently came across this list of videos from North Sail. Yes they think their sails are great. And yes I may be a convert to the thinking they use to make their sails. I thought enough about them to order 3 sails from the Seattle Loft. I found I liked the local sail loft manager. He helped with my purchase. I began to understand the value of a loft and what they can bring to your boat.

That said up front, I think this video about cruising sails and what can be the benefits of a local sail loft are relevant information for a boat owner considering a new suit to power their sail boat.

Ten steps to Great Cruising Sails.
by North Sails.

Enjoy.

And yes asking about sails on SBO can get you a lot of intelligent information to help you figure out what will be good for you and your boat.

 

[DArcy]

My main is well past its prime and I got a quote from Precision with a very reasonable price. I'm happy with my Precision jib so I may go with them for the main but I have a friend who is the local North rep so I will get a quote from him as well. The main reason I'm waiting is that there are a lot of other demands competing for my boat bucks so it looks like sails will be in the budget for next winter.
The big question I have is what is the difference in cloth from the cheap to the expensive. The quote I have from precision lists 4 different cruising sails and the most expensive is 80% more than the cheapest. The description of the 400 series Dacron pretty much spells out the sailing I do but can I trust the marketing BS?
Precision 400 Series of Dacrons are perfectly suited for coastal cruising, weekends, holidays, and the occasional offshore use. Popular among charter companies, sailing schools, and camps. These sails stand apart from our 300 Series with increased shape holding, easier handling, durability, and trimming in addition to their increased design quality.

 

[jssailem]

I appreciate the stress of Boat Budgets.
One of the ideas that took me a bit of time to understand is "How Long do you plan to own/sail the boat?"

What was identified in the video is the considerations about time of ownership, frequency of sailing, care of the sails, and a comparison of the time different materials will perform.

Regarding the performance, North Sail video reviews two distinct variables. Length of time the cloth holds together, and sail shape retention. On the one had you have dacron cloth that holds together well in all sorts of sailing conditions, but stretches out over time. The sail shape declines faster than the cloth decomposes. This of course is relevant to all sail manufactures.

Perhaps what is needed is not just the online sales info, but a call to the Precision loft manager and a discussion of the quality of the materials and how they are put together. Let them tell you how they perceive the different cloth offerings will manage the shape decline and cloth decline factors. Subtle to this discussion is also the way they build the sail to address or mitigate these challenges.

When I was looking at sails, the prices were all over the board. If I was thinking about sailing across the Pacific, I would have leaned more strongly to the Hasse Loft in Port Townsend. There reputation and the way they hand craft sails is incredible. But the $8,000 they wanted for one sail, which would have been a lifetime sail on my boat, was more than I needed to cruise the waters and the time I will spend on the boat. When looking at the issue I chose a manufacture that offered some of the design features of Hasse but less hand crafting to achieve a price that I wanted to pay (afford).

When I watched the video, the presenters discussed this practical side to cruising sail buying. That helped me think the video would be helpful to other boat owners.

 

[jon hansen]

light 155 jib 12mph
heavy 155 jib18 mph
140 jib 28 mph
110 jib 45 mph
stay sail 18mph
80 club footed 45 mph
main 60 mph
mizzen 60 mph
mizzen stay sail 12 mph
11/2 oz spinnaker how scary you want to get
3/4 oz spinnaker 18 mph
3/4 oz Aspinnaker 18 mph
they are all fresh with great shape. got the 3/4 sinnaker replaced last year.


i love my sailmaker. he's a good friend.
Al Declerq, saint clair shores michigan, (1 810 444 6161) he was north, then UK, then doyle, then north again, now doyle again. he has built me many nice sails. we play together as well

john, sails are the most important part of a sailboat.

yeah, i'm a geek, a sailing geek

.... and then there are my other sailboats

 

[JRT]

Precision is a good loft to work with. I've used them for my jib on my O'Day 25 and my Code 0 on my Catalina 310. I would recommend them as they also follow up with calls and talk to you about how you use the boat and help you determine the options that fit your budget. No local option in Lake Guntersville so I've called a lot of them. That said this year I went with SailCare on my Job and Main on the 310 and They look fantastic and practically new and crisp like the new jib I bought from Precision for my O'Day. But I have not sailed yet due to a variety of issues so will hold a recommendation till I try them out for the season.

I wish I had the luxury of a local loft and someday when we move to the coast it will be on my list to find and work with for sure. My warning to anyone with Precision is the shipping schedule is under estimated for both sails I bought from them. Each was over a month late so don't plan around any critical needs for new sails. I actually was going to go with Mack Sails this year because he had a much faster turn around time, builds his sails in Florida and I was getting a Mack Pack for the Main at the same time. The budget just realistically wasn't there and the fact is we are really just day sailing around the lake for family time so no overnights or serious racing / trips are in the plans. SailCare budget approach offered a good price and addressed several issues and fixes so as long as they hold up for a few years it will be money well worth spent.

 

[jssailem]

SailCare budget approach offered a good price.... it will be money well worth spent.

I looked into the Sailcare plan. I think if you catch the sails early enough they offer a way to extend the decomposition of Dacron sails for a couple of years. Like a patch on a pair of jeans that fit great but have a hole over the right knee from the fall you took.

New sails are impregnated with resins that hold the woven cloth threads in place. Eventually the cloth resin matrix begins to break down. Sails flogging in the wind, sails left exposed to UV, sails stored wet, all contribute to this decomposition of the sailcloth.

I think the Sail Care idea attempts to recapture the cloth by cleaning the dirt out of the cloth and reinfuse resins into the cloth.

I look forward to learning about your experiences with their process.

 

[jssailem]

Jon thanks for sharing the contents of your sail locker. All Hank-on sails?

I remember the days of sail lockers and storage of the various options to be carried on board based on the expected weather conditions. In So Cal it was fairly easy to make good selections without having to load all the possible combinations available. Sometimes it was the choices made that influenced the racing outcome.

The average cruising/day sailor comprises the sails in the locker for the convenience of rolling out or rolling up one sail to adjust to conditions. This means you’ll still be sailing but compromising maximum performance. A reasonable trade off for most.

 

[sesmith]

Our "local" sail loft is a place I found in Vermont quite a few years ago. It's a local loft there that is well known and designs, cuts, and makes everything in house. We have one boat in Erie, Pa, and one in SC, but I still deal with that loft for repairs and new sails. New sails on the schedule for the Erie boat next winter. I'll do the measuring and he'll make the sails. That worked well a couple of years ago for our other boat. No point even getting other estimates this time around, as the price will be fair for a great set of sails.

Concerning Sailcare. This sail maker told me that the Sailcare process will ruin a good set of sails. Now of course, he sells sails, and I doubt many people would use Sailcare unless they were trying to resurrect a beat set of sails anyhow. That said, I'd just rather put the money towards a new set, as you can't take the "blow out" out of a set of blown out sails.

 

[JRT]

I look forward to comparing to my limited experience with new sails vs SailCare. I really want to be able to tell you I'm some sort of hard core old salt sailor but the truth of last year, the most we have ever sailed, is we just go out for a day. We sail around a bit, motor when the wind stops, anchor in a cove, eat lunch, wife and daughter tan, son explores in his canoe maybe fish some, but usually I just chill out in the shade and read or nap having my entire family on the boat is joy enough for me. New Sails would be awesome, but we get by just fine with what we have and as long as I take care of the boat I'm happy with my return on investment.

 

[jon hansen]

yes john, all hank on. this also explains one of the reasons i always sail with a crew, never short handed. a foil system would not match the 66' vintage i think. there are no passengers, everybody crews

 

[jssailem]

You are spot on with the benefits of hank on and the liability. You have a boat that has large sails.

I looked at a 50ft boat, but soon decided, since I was likely a solo sailor that the equipment exceeded my ability to manage solo. Trying to fold and store the sails on a 35ft boat are plenty to deal with.

It is nice that you have volunteer crew to support your habits. Addictive as they may be.

 

[jon hansen]

john, as some are shy, for good reason, as to buying sails, i thought i would show the other end of the spectrum of cruising these fun toys we own. old sails are nothing more than an old tired engine in your car. fresh sails improve the sailing part of the game. going on a family vacation with only 5 cylinders of you V8 firing ain't much fun. the ride is so much better. the need to motor is highly reduced. yes, if you are in a light wind area of the world, new sails don't help much. here on the lakes we have the wind, we have the room for nice long tacks, we sail with the winds. if the wind is building at 11:00 pm then that is when we might shove of the dock. driving to weather all day is more of an option. and so on .......

a big fact about tired sails, the reality that novices do not know. any part of your sails that are not properly shaped become "DRAG". the wind going over the poorly set area becomes "DRAG". drag makes you heel more. drag makes the sailing slower. drag keeps you from sailing to weather. drag reduces the pleasure of the ride. a lot of the fun of enjoying a sail is reduced, and when cruising, lots of motoring cause you just could not get from A to B under sail.

your sailmaker should be your new best friend

 

[jssailem]

SAILING SLOWER IS A “DRAG”.

 

[Tally Ho]

My decision was made a lot easier when my (probably 30-year old original) mainsail tore in a 30 knot wind and a “not as controlled jibe as I thought”.

it was near the end of the 2019 season, but I was able to get a new North Sail made in time to bend it on a few days before I hauled out at the end of 2019. I also added a new Tides Marine Strong track for the full-batten main, and everything fit perfectly.

Had a good 2020 season with it, despite Covid issues. Looking forward to a more complete year in 2021.

My Genoa is not original, but probably 10 or 11 years old. I noticed the bottom edge was chaffed through where it rubs in the pulpit , so I took it to North’s loft for an inspection and repair. There were a few tears to fix, restitch some edges, etc. but they said I will need a new sun cover pretty soon . Seemed like they said it would be 1/2 the price of a new sail...so have to think about that and build a little room in the boat kitty.

Greg

 

[DougM]

Spring is a bit late for thinking about buying new sails. Usually, sail lofts will discount orders in late fall/early winter for spring delivery.
As far as sail maintenance was concerned, I would take them with me when I went back to Virginia in the fall, and to a loft in Deltaville. I would tell them when I expected to return to Michigan, and the sails would be clean, inspected, and ready to go.

 

[jssailem]

North conducted an interesting zoom meeting for cruising sailors. Talking about sails for Trade Wind sailing as in the Atlantic Rally for Cruisers - Set sail from Las Palmas de Gran Canaria to the Caribbean.

They talked about an interesting new sail for a monohull. It slides up your furler and when open comes out like a double genoa. Made out of 1.5 oz nylon. It can be sailed on a single side like a code 0 giving you a 3oz sail.. It can be furled.

 

[DArcy]

They talked about an interesting new sail for a monohull. It slides up your furler and when open comes out like a double genoa. Made out of 1.5 oz nylon. It can be sailed on a single side like a code 0 giving you a 3oz sail.. It can be furled.

What's old is new again

Twizzle rig?

Hi All, I have a Hunter 356 2002yr with B&R In Mast Furling, and am looking at a new suit of sails. I am usually short handed so need easy handling. The jib foil only has one groove for a bolt rope, so the Twizzle would have to be using only one groove. The Twizzle rig looks ideal for down wind...

forums.sailboatowners.com

North is good at improving on old ideas, I'm sure it is a good sail configuration.

 

[fred1diver]

I'm waiting for my new main from precision, just one last payment to do next week and she'll be on her way

 

[jssailem]

I'm sure it is a good sail configuration.

Looks simpler to rig than 2 jibs or genoas. Uses a light material so can get away with no poles. A downwind Trade wind type of sail with a little versatility but in light winds. Not a 20 knot breeze type of sail.

 

[jon hansen]

john, i think your wrong about the air speed limits. my 11/2 os spinnaker has been through huge breezes. plus, apparent wind down wind. prolly good for playing in the trades all the time.