New Anchor - Bruce or Delta?

Hermit Scott · Jun 11, 2010

The claw has set so fast, I never even tried to back down on it in reverse yet. But we went out Tuesday, sailed up the ICW a few miles, we dropped anchor. I fed the rode out until we were in as shallow of water as we could be, and we started fishing. The wind was blowing us toward the shore but the tide was pulling the boat toward the sea(which was parallel to the shore). So the rode was coming off the bow at an angle. At first we were looking at grass flats, in less than a minute we were looking at 15' of mud bank and were sitting on the bottom. I had my friends take the rode and we put it on the jib winch and were able to drag the
11,000 lb. boat sideways to deeper water.
It is an over sized anchor for the boat, but I was more impressed with it Tuesday than ever before.
It's a 33 lb. Manta, 60' of 5/16" chain(completely rusted, from lowes) 200' of nylon 1/2".

Maine Sail · Jun 11, 2010

MoonSailer said:
IS the Rocna worth the price on my boat for the way I sail???

Only you can answer that. The Rocna 15kg / 33 Lb. is actually now less money than the Manson Supreme 35 Lb. at a number of retailers and CONSIDERABLY less money than a new 35 pound CQR, the anchor every one clings to as the "gold standard" is the MOST expensive..

WM 2010 Prices

Rocna 33 = $424.00
CQR 35 = $679.00
Manson Supreme =$449.00

Oh and if you want a true high quality claw anchor equal or better in quality than the original Bruce anchor it's going to cost you...

Manson Ray 33 (Claw) = $569.00

MoonSailer said:
http://www.anchorbuddy.co.nz/anchoring.html Maybe a kellet???

Kellets don't do much of anything when you most need them. In high winds you can still snatch tight or shock load your hardware and if you use a marginal holding anchor those shock loads can literally rip it from the bottom. If you want to prevent sailing at anchor etc. they can work ok but they just don't do what they claim to in high winds..

jibes138 · Jun 11, 2010

There is an old saying....

You get what you pay for.

Based on this irrefutable truth of the world I calculated what is the best anchor as follows:

The CQR is 60% better
The Manson Supreme is 6% better
The Manson Claw is 34% better

This should settle it once and for all.

Stu Jackson · Jun 11, 2010

...and the YEAR of the PS test would be???

MoonSailer · Jun 11, 2010

The most important factor in a test is sometimes who pays for the test!!!! With a little jiggering a test can be set up so that it favors certain outcomes. Like alcohol in gasoline. with a low octane gasoline alcohol helps by increasing the octane. But with a high octane gasoline adding alcohol hurts the MPG. Also it is not unheard of people repeating tests until they get the desired results.
At lunch a friend told of a thunderstorm that had him worried last week. It came up suddenly and for a while he was afraid that they would be on the beach. He had a fortress anchor that held. The wind was too strong for the engine to get him off of the anchor so they just rode it out. 35' Hunter.

Craig Smith · Jun 11, 2010

I think Practical Sailor or Powerboat Reports (which are the guys who have done a bit of their recent anchor testing, it's only reprinted in PS) can be trusted to be independent. That doesn't mean they can't be completely incompetent.

In the test above that Druid so enthusiastically quotes, the CQR is 35 lb and the Delta is 22 lb - i.e. the results they give for the CQR are for an anchor that is fully over 50% larger, with no attempt at correction whatsoever. If you look at their reported pull figures on a performance/weight basis, the Delta is clearly the better anchor, and that's if you don't bother compensating for the substrata which they themselves write in big bold text "Soft Sand Over Hard Sand" - so the bigger CQR performed a little better than might be expected because it's tip managed to reach into the harder stuff unlike the smaller Delta. That they can publish this stuff with a straight face is cringe inspiring.

Their most recent report was actually a re-write of a mail-in from a cruiser couple in South America, who had fooled around with some anchors on a beach in the middle of the Patagonian winter. The fact that the beach was frozen solid notwithstanding, it was entirely amateur and about as unscientific as could be imagined - as commented on by those who were there, but this didn't stop PS publishing it as a re-written article with frequent mentions of "Practical Sailor", "us", and "we" to imply it was a test they conducted.

The majority of magazine anchor testing is not worth the paper it's written on. The $X000 value, or whatever it is, of a 4 or 6 page article just doesn't justify the cost of creating it properly. It's only when an outfit like West Marine gets involved, with commercial interests in getting useful results, that you see something approaching adequate resources invested, and even then there are substantial errors in the write-ups published by the various magazines who tagged along.

jibes138 · Jun 12, 2010

Rocna on display

Craig,
I was in a West store yesterday and they had a 40 Kg Rocna on display. First time I have seen a Rocna of any size actually in the store. I was hoping they had a small one. The also had a Manson, some Danforths etc. I just want to tell you the craftsmanship on the Rocna was a sight to behold. The quality was apparent just looking at it. Nice welds, galvanizing, etc. No question this is the storm anchor for me. You need to get your product out in the stores, seems like it is always a special order to buy a Rocna. I'd guess most boaters are driving 18 to 22 foot power boats so you really need a product in the 8 or 10 pound size for these folks to scoop up at retail stores.
Regarding the testing of anchors, many anchors properly set in a straight line pull in dense mud will have enormous holding power. It is the reversal of direction, the sailing while at anchor from side to side, the reversing currents, and initial setting that to me are the differentiators. A danforth will hold like crazy once set as the fluke area is very large. but yank it around 180 degrees and you risk it popping out. I think this is where the new generation anchors really make the difference.
Keep up the great work and get some marketing people to get your anchors out in the stores.

Scott B · Jun 12, 2010

druid said:
BTW: those of you talking about how well your anchor holds in 35 knot winds: maybe you should spend less time researching anchors and more researching anchorages...

druid

Both times I've been in high winds, was thunderstorms that came out of nowhere.

Two summers ago we were motoring down Collins Inlet, approx. 8-10 miles long and 100 yards wide at the North end of Georgian Bay. High ridge to the north. It was hazy overcast and halfway along it started to lighlty drizzle, but no wind. 3/4 of the way through is a small lake and as the rain was getting more steady, but not heavy and still no wind and the little voice in my head thought maybe we should stop and sit it out. The Inlet gets narrower at the far end and you have to do a tight 90 deg. turn in 6 ft. water. We dropped anchor and figuring we'd only be there a couple of hours only let out 75' in 28 ft. water or 3.8:1 scope. Also since we weren't going to be there long I didn't back down the anchor. No sooner than we had finished zipping up the enclosure and gone below to make some tea, we were literaly run over by a squall with 40 knot winds and rain so heavy I could hardly see the bow. It also spun us 100 deg. The gusts that peaked at 52 knots, swung us sideways and pinned us for a minute or two on a 15 deg. heal, without budging or swaying. After the gust we'd swing the other direction and again stay pinned on a heal. This went on for half an hour or so ( lost all track of time ) Aftermath was several trees down on the rocky shore 100 yards behind us.
Earlier that same year we were anchored in a popular anchorage at a group of islands on the Eastern shore of Georgian Bay. 10:00 pm and a thunderstorm came across the bay a hit us. We were on the eastern side of the island and the storm came from the west. Sustained 30 knot winds for half an hour or so. 1 boat ( of 6-7 there ) dragged and passed us sideways.

Don't know how I could have planned for either one of those except stay home. First one was day 6 of a 10 day trip.

Craig Smith · Jun 12, 2010

druid said:
BTW: those of you talking about how well your anchor holds in 35 knot winds: maybe you should spend less time researching anchors and more researching anchorages...
druid

How about 60 or 80 knots?

That sort of naivety will get you in trouble. No offense. I hope you don't find out the hard way.

jibes138 said:
Craig,
I was in a West store yesterday and they had a 40 Kg Rocna on display. First time I have seen a Rocna of any size actually in the store. I was hoping they had a small one. The also had a Manson, some Danforths etc. I just want to tell you the craftsmanship on the Rocna was a sight to behold. The quality was apparent just looking at it. Nice welds, galvanizing, etc. No question this is the storm anchor for me...

Thanks for the comments. I hope you said something similar to the store staff

heart of gold · Jun 14, 2010

Wow, never seen such passion for bits of steel. Druid, I bet your sorry you asked the question! It is all extremely interesting to me though as I have a 35#CQR and a similar weighted Bruce that came with the boat. But, Mainsail, have you ever heard of a Super Sarca? http://www.anchorright.com.au/products/show-anchors?id=7 Kinda looks like a Ronca, Ausie style. I would love to be able to afford your quiver, but decisions, decisions. Which one today. I know one anchor that I would not ever use as a primary again and that would be a Fortress. Would make a great racing anchor though where it would be watched very carefully. Cheers

Hermit Scott · Jun 14, 2010

The sarca looks like a plow-rocna hybrid. If I was in the anchor designing business, I would go for a hybrid of the claw and the rocna. Kind of like a rocna with some little upturned wings sticking off the side and the roll bar would bow out above them. I think that would increase the angle of attack.
But it would probably be a huge failure like my recent anodizing experiment.

Ross · Jun 14, 2010

Funny no one has mentioned a Northill folding fisherman. I have a 15 pound model that I set as a stern anchor to keep me turned towards the wake waves off the channel.

Ron McCoy · Jun 14, 2010

Deja Vu!
I've heard the ghost of dropped anchors so many times. Hasn't this been talked to death already???

Bad Obsession · Jun 15, 2010

So....Druid.....What are you going to end up getting? Inquiring minds want to know!

Hermit Scott · Jun 15, 2010

Ron McCoy said:
Deja Vu!
I've heard the ghost of dropped anchors so many times. Hasn't this been talked to death already???

In case you don't know that's what us old men enjoy the most; sitting around talking about the same stuff over and over.

Bad Obsession · Jun 15, 2010

Scott....we keep on talking about this over and over because we forgot that we talked about this in the first place.

jibes138 · Jun 15, 2010

Huh?

Talked about what???

Scott B · Jun 15, 2010

Well I agree,..... coffee is best brewed in a drip filter cone......

sailingdog · Jun 17, 2010

Me, I'd recommend a next gen like a Rocna or Manson Supreme... Not really worth spending the money on anything else.