New Anchor - Bruce or Delta?

[Prime Time]

Re-stating my point

One can easily argue you can't prove faith. ( I am a scientist by the way)

Stu, I agree with your point that testing is important. However:


One can argue that unless the conditions of the testing of the anchors exactly duplicates the conditions that you are going to be using the anchors, the results may not hold true to your experience. There are a lot of variables including the skill of the operator.


People tend to knock the CQR. As I have stated previously on this forum, my dad and I have used a 35 Lb CQR on his Bristol 40 since 1972, anchoring with nylon line and about 10 feet of chain, everywhere from the Chesapeake to Maine and in between.

WE HAVE NEVER DRAGGED.

We are compulsive about plenty of scope and digging the anchor in by backing down with the engine. It may skip a bit initially, but you can feel it dig in. Wind shifts, thunderstorms, gales, current changes galore, we have never dragged. Maybe I should post a video of how we do it. Not trying to boast.

Really. Selection of anchors is based on testing and science. You would no longer tie a rock to a rope and use it for an anchor, would you?

If you maintain that one should employ different anchors for different bottoms, that is based on testing. The design of the anchors themselves is based on science.

Science and religion can certainly co-exist. They are not, however, the same thing.

 

[jibes138]

Best Practice

It is a widely known fact that the best way to survive a storm (meaning a hurricane) is to set three equally spaced anchors. So every 120 degrees of arc you have another anchor, as the boat swings with wind and current shifts it is loading up a new anchor versus expecting one to reset in a new direction. You can also put anchors in series so as the first one drags it loads up the second one and the combined holding power keeps you secure. Of course this assumes you set them correctly in the right kind of bottom.
A good friend has a great hurricane method. A 700 pound Danforth equivalent permanently set in a hurricane hole. When needed he grapples for the chain and he connects with a nylon rode but attches to the boat with a steel cable with large rubber bushins over the cable for chafe protection. It is an awesome set up and I doubt he will move an inch since the anchor has set in mud for years. It is probably buried halfway to china by now. This guy was a former ship captain and marine salvage business owner. Lots of distance under assorted keels.

 

[Scott B]

More to the point is, if you're looking for a NEW anchor, then why not consider the new generation anchors.

If you are more than happy with what you have now and it is working for you, then stay with that anchor.


BTW, independant field testing on a Rocna, I've seen 52 knots, 3.7:1 scope after a 120 deg. wind shift that went from 10 - 40 knots in minutes, that I care not to go through again.

 

[Hermit Scott]

:Anchors are like religion; people love their god and their anchor but they seem to not have tried the others out. But for some reason their god and anchor are the best.
I bought my anchor because it was the best that Maine Sail recommended in my price range at the time. (His old posts show he used to be a big fan of the Bruce until the Rocna and Masons came out) I don't know anyone else with that kind of experience on boats. Seriously, just look at his presentation, data and motivation for what he is presenting.
Yeah,I'm a MaineSail groupie...So what!

 

[Stu Jackson]

:
Yeah,I'm a MaineSail groupie...So what!

You're not the only one...

 

[Richard19068]

:Anchors are like religion; people love their god and their anchor but they seem to not have tried the others out. But for some reason their god and anchor are the best.
I bought my anchor because it was the best that Maine Sail recommended in my price range at the time. (His old posts show he used to be a big fan of the Bruce until the Rocna and Masons came out) I don't know anyone else with that kind of experience on boats. Seriously, just look at his presentation, data and motivation for what he is presenting.
Yeah,I'm a MaineSail groupie...So what!

Maybe Mainsail can test out a few Gods for us and give us a report. Just kidding...

 

[catsailor]

More to the point is, if you're looking for a NEW anchor, then why not consider the new generation anchors.

... because if you can't enjoy anachronism as a sailor, your only remaining option is to be a medieval reenactor. Oh my.

 

[druid]

If you're not going to listen to the feedback why do you ask the question?

Actually, if you look back to my original question, it was "which is better: Delta or Bruce?" The reply of "get a Rocna!" does NOT answer the question!

As for "new technology" - really? You think they didn't have stress analysis programs in the 70s? Or modelling, or whatever "new technology" you think they used to develop the Rocna?

My boat is 40 years old. Am I insane not to take advantage of "new technology" in boats?

As for the "definitive tests" - if you go back 20 years or so you will find "definitive tests" that prove CONCLUSIVELY that the Bruce is far superior to any other anchor of that day. Strangely, the newer "definitive tests" now show it hardly better than the others. So forgive me if I'm sceptical about "definitive tests" (and yes I've read them)

To answer my own question: I think either one would be fine.

druid

 

[Hermit Scott]

Maybe Mainsail can test out a few Gods for us and give us a report. Just kidding...

That WAS funny.
Druid-Rocna guy is a little over the top, but he makes some good points. I know you value the opinions of people on this site, maybe not salesmen hawking their wares, but you have to admit that people that own and use the new gen anchors trust them more than the plow, bruce or fortress they used to use. That's gotta count for something.

 

[Scott B]

... because if you can't enjoy anachronism as a sailor, your only remaining option is to be a medieval reenactor. Oh my.

and I brew coffee with a drip filter cone .... But thats' another hot topic....

You're not the only one...

I was assimilated years ago doing a search on anchors.....

 

[Liam]

According to the West Marine anchor test results, the Delta is a better anchor than the Bruce.
I have used both anchors many times. I have had a Bruce drag. I have never had a Delta drag.
That said, the West Marine anchor test and every other recent test that I have seen have shown that the "new gen" anchors are by far better than either the Delta or the Bruce. My personal experience is also that the Rocna is far better than Delta or Bruce, (Rocna is what I now use as primary anchor). I keep the Delta in the lazarette, I sold the Bruce.
Of course you are free to spend your money however you like. I am sure that whatever you choose will be just fine for you.
I work on a farm so I have experience with implements...
Plows are designed to drag through soil and push soil aside, spades are designed to dig into soil. Something to consider.

 

[Maine Sail]

The funny thing is that many of us now own both old and new gen anchors and the old ones are still in our garages. Most of these boaters use the new gens even when they already own old gen. I own a slew of them, they owe me nothing, and I simply choose to use the best performer. Seeing as I generally don't sell my old gear, unless I have multiples, I have no vested interest in which anchor I use other than pure performance. I did sell a duplicate Fortress and my Delta went with an old boat..

Personally, I prefer the look and aesthetics of a salty looking CQR and feel the Rocna & Manson Supreme to be the ugliest hood ornaments I can think of, but it is NOT about looks, what others are using, or "history". It is ALL about ultimate performance, setting, re-setting & holding for me. On any given day could choose ANY anchor I want to use so there is ZERO bias other than flat out performance for my quiver of anchors. Yes, I choose the ugliest one because of all the anchors I own it has been the flat out best performer in MANY bottom types..

 

[Ross]

pound for pound the new technology anchors out perform the old technology anchors without any qualification. I use a 35 pound CQR and 3/8 inch chain on a thirty foot boat and I sleep well. However that is quite a bit beyond what West Marine recomends for a boat this size.
Mainesail your boat is bigger and heavier than mine, what size Rocna and chain do you use?

 

[MrBee]

All this info of what anchor type holds best is just great...BUT, i want to know which anchor will fit my Bow roller best and "Look" the best doing it !
ha

Brian

 

[jibes138]

It's not how good it works it's about how good you look

I'm interested in having a really good looking anchor up on the bow roller but keeping a nice Rocna down below to pull out when I anchor. The one on the bow would be solely to make the boat look good. Does anyone know of a source for maybe a plastic anchor that is painted silver or chrome plated just to really look good sitting up there?

How do you stow an anchor down below so it is not slamming around in heavy weather? Wrap it up in rugs? Seems like bubble wrap would just have all the little bubbles pop and kids of all ages on board would want to pop them by hand

 

[Maine Sail]

I'm interested in having a really good looking anchor up on the bow roller but keeping a nice Rocna down below to pull out when I anchor. The one on the bow would be solely to make the boat look good. Does anyone know of a source for maybe a plastic anchor that is painted silver or chrome plated just to really look good sitting up there?

How do you stow an anchor down below so it is not slamming around in heavy weather? Wrap it up in rugs? Seems like bubble wrap would just have all the little bubbles pop and kids of all ages on board would want to pop them by hand

For a real puuuuurty anchor you'll want chrome plated Starboard. It must be MARINE GRADE chrome plating though....

 

[Hermit Scott]

For a real puuuuurty anchor you'll want chrome plated Starboard. It must be MARINE GRADE chrome plating though....

I checked west marine for the chrome plated starboard and they were out, they are always out of stock of the good stuff!

 

[Bob S]

I'm sure you all remember those nifty hood ornaments!

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[RonRelyea]

"Yeah,I'm a MaineSail groupie...So what! "

ditto ... look at this guy! he lugs out probably 300 pounds of anchors just to take a picture for us!!! (and .... he'll probably reply to this post with the EXACT total poundage of the anchors ;-) ... thanks Maine!

 

[MoonSailer]

IMHO the anchorage is far more important than the anchor. Thick heavy mud seems to hold well regardless of the anchor. Hard packed sand is not so good. Grass is really a PITA and I avoid grass. Some wind protection is great. Deep water near some trees or sand dunes. Rocks seem to be the worst place to anchor especially shale. Also chain is important. Enough heavy chain helps most any anchor set better. I have nothing against the new anchors except the price. I have only so much money to spend boating. IS the Rocna worth the price on my boat for the way I sail??? In the ultimate storm probably but hopefully I will be anchored in a snug little cove where the ultimate holding power is not required. But it is hard to argue against buying the "best" but I had to settle for a 32' 30 year old boat. And so far settling for a Claw has had no downside. http://www.anchorbuddy.co.nz/anchoring.html Maybe a kellet???