New Alternator Regulator?

[jviss]

Greetings,

My Heart Interface Ideal Regulator Output Module has apparently bitten the dust. It's part of a Freedom Inverter/Charger and Link 2000-R system. There's power to the output module (regulator), and it says it's on; the Link 2000-R indicates "charging." But, there's no output, and I found, no field current.

If you have any knowledge or experience fixing one of these, please help! But, I'm thinking a new regulator, made in this century, is probably the answer.

Does anyone know how a replacement regulator would interact with the Freedom and Link?

Recommendations for a regulator?

Thanks,

jv

 

[Rich Stidger]

Before you condemn the regulator, disconnect the regulator from the field connection of the alternator. Connect a jumper to the field input of the alternator and put a 5-10 ohm resistor in series to a 12V source (probably the 12V output on the alternator). No resistor? Use a 12V light bulb. A auto headlight works fine but a halogen cabin bulb should work also. If the alternator comes alive and generates current, then suspect the regulator or connections to the alternator. If you still don't get any current out of the alternator then the alternator has the problem.

 

[jviss]

Before you condemn the regulator, disconnect the regulator from the field connection of the alternator. Connect a jumper to the field input of the alternator and put a 5-10 ohm resistor in series to a 12V source (probably the 12V output on the alternator). No resistor? Use a 12V light bulb. A auto headlight works fine but a halogen cabin bulb should work also. If the alternator comes alive and generates current, then suspect the regulator or connections to the alternator. If you still don't get any current out of the alternator then the alternator has the problem.

Thanks, Rich, I might just try that! But then, why wouldn't I see any field current? Could a bad alternator prevent field current from flowing? (I don't think so, but I'm all ears.)

 

[Rich Stidger]

Thanks, Rich, I might just try that! But then, why wouldn't I see any field current? Could a bad alternator prevent field current from flowing? (I don't think so, but I'm all ears.)

Sure it could. The alternator field current flows through the rotor and the brushes. A bad brush could stop the field current, and hence the armature output. The alternator output current is generated in the armature windings around the inside of the case.
If you measured the field current flowing into the alternator field connection or out of the regulator you would see no current if a brush was hung up or not making connection to the slip rings on the armature.

 

[jviss]

Sure it could. The alternator field current flows through the rotor and the brushes. A bad brush could stop the field current, and hence the armature output. The alternator output current is generated in the armature windings around the inside of the case.
If you measured the field current flowing into the alternator field connection or out of the regulator you would see no current if a brush was hung up or not making connection to the slip rings on the armature.

Excellent, thanks.

But, let's assume the regulator is trash. What's your favorite regulator? I'm leaning towards the Balmar MC-618-H, with alternator and battery temp sensors.

 

[dlochner]

The state of the art regulator is a Wakespeed. It uses the actually amperage generated to regulate the alternator, not the voltage output as all other regulators do.

WS500 Advanced Alternator Regulator - Wakespeed

The WS500 is the only alternator regulator to utilize current, voltage and temperature to deliver the most precise and effective charging possible.

www.wakespeed.com

 

[Rich Stidger]

Excellent, thanks.

But, let's assume the regulator is trash. What's your favorite regulator? I'm leaning towards the Balmar MC-618-H, with alternator and battery temp sensors.

Sorry no recomendation. I would have to research. I currently have a Xantrex XAR Alternator regulator which is identical to a Balmar ARS-5. This is an old design. But I do use both battery and alternator temp sensors. I think the MC-618 is newer. Check for a recommendation from Maine Sail. I am using one of his alternators with my regulator.
Are you certain that any regulator will work with your Freedom Inverter/Charger? Your original post made it sound like you had a system that was all interconnected and designed to work together.

 

[jviss]

Are you certain that any regulator will work with your Freedom Inverter/Charger?

No, I'm not. But, charging the batts is more important, at this point, than everything working together. I may just have to abandon the Freedom system.

 

[dlochner]

But, let's assume the regulator is trash. What's your favorite regulator? I'm leaning towards the Balmar MC-618-H, with alternator and battery temp sensors.

When I replaced the alternator with a 165a Balmar I went with the 618 regulator, Smart Shunt, BT connection, and SG200. Together they are a pretty slick system. It is easy to program the regulator with the BT app and the data you can get on the app is informative. If you don't add the BT dongle you are stuck with using the magnetic screwdriver which, even Balmar tech guys admit, a royal PITA. If you don't add the smart shunt and SG200, you're not tapping the full power of the system.

 

[jviss]

When I replaced the alternator with a 165a Balmar I went with the 618 regulator, Smart Shunt, BT connection, and SG200. Together they are a pretty slick system. It is easy to program the regulator with the BT app and the data you can get on the app is informative. If you don't add the BT dongle you are stuck with using the magnetic screwdriver which, even Balmar tech guys admit, a royal PITA. If you don't add the smart shunt and SG200, you're not tapping the full power of the system.

So, you can use the BT dongle with just the 618?

 

[dlochner]

So, you can use the BT dongle with just the 618?

No.

From the installation manual:

NOTE: The Bluetooth® Gateway CANNOT be connected directly to the
MC-618, as the regulator cannot power the Bluetooth® Gateway. The
MC-618 must be connected to a SmartLinkTM network, typically a SG200 Battery Monitor.

 

[jviss]

No.

From the installation manual:

Gotcha, thank you.

 

[Stu Jackson]

..................... I may just have to abandon the Freedom system.

No you don't. Your Link 2000 R was the regulator controller, and we have no way to know why you had that separate Heart regulator in addition to the Link 2000R.

But you can continue to use the Link as "just" a Link 2000 (battery monitor and I/C I/O) and keep the Freedom, too.

Then just get a new alternator if your need one and a quality regulator, either a Balmar 618 (if you need or want the bells & whistles) or the older simpler 614 series (ignore the ARS5, not worth it - my Electrical Systems 101 thread has a link to Maine Sail's comparison) or a Wakespeed (more bells & whistles that needed for coastal sailing imho).

Good luck.

 

[jviss]

Your Link 2000 R was the regulator controller, and we have no way to know why you had that separate Heart regulator in addition to the Link 2000R.

To be more precise, the system consists of a Freedom 10, Link 2000-R and Heart Interface "Ideal Regulator Output Module," which is connected to the Link via a phone cable. So, maybe it's not a regulator in of itself, perhaps the regulator function is distributed amongst the Link and output module components? I don't know.

 

[jviss]

or the older simpler 614 series

How about the 612?

 

[dlochner]

The regulator and programming for the 618 is basically the same as the 614, except the the 618 can be connected to the Balmar network and be programmed via the App.

The 612 is for use with a dual alternator system.

All this information is readily available on the Balmar site.

 

[jviss]

The regulator and programming for the 618 is basically the same as the 614, except the the 618 can be connected to the Balmar network and be programmed via the App.

The 612 is for use with a dual alternator system.

All this information is readily available on the Balmar site.

Thank you.

 

[Stu Jackson]

To be more precise, the system consists of a Freedom 10, Link 2000-R and Heart Interface "Ideal Regulator Output Module," which is connected to the Link via a phone cable. So, maybe it's not a regulator in of itself, perhaps the regulator function is distributed amongst the Link and output module components? I don't know.

I don't know...

Then you should.

The Freedom 10 is an I/C.
The Link controls (can start and stop) the I and C functions of the Freedom via the telephone cable.
The Link 2000 R the R functions as an alternator controller.
The ideal Regulator appears to me to be superfluous to the Link R function which I thought was built into the R part of the Link, which is why I think it was added, UNLESS the ideal regulator MODULE is just the R part of the Link. Could be.

You can find the manuals for all of this stuff at Xantrex's website under discontinued stuff.

 

[jviss]

Thanks Stu.

the ideal regulator MODULE is just the R part of the Link.

I think that's the case.

You can find the manuals for all of this stuff at Xantrex's website under discontinued stuff.

Yes, I found them, I also have the hard copy. But, the documentation isn't the best, or clearest.

I will troubleshoot to see if it's the alternator or regulator, and if it's the regulator, probably go with a Balmar 614 or 618 and keep the Freedom inverter. We'll see.

 

[Rich Stidger]

I will troubleshoot to see if it's the alternator or regulator, and if it's the regulator, probably go with a Balmar 614 or 618 and keep the Freedom inverter. We'll see.

I just occurred to me- When you test the alternator with a resistor connected to the field connection, test it with a resistor connection to 12V as I suggested before and also to ground. Some alternators supply 12V internally and the external regulator grounds the field. Others have the field grounded internally and the external regulator supplies 12V to the field connection. I don't know which type you have so you need to test both ways so you don't get a false result.