Networking NMEA 2000 ... help!

[Scott T-Bird]

Want to confirm / simplify my plan!

I just purchased and installed a B&G Zeus 3S chartplotter and I want to network with my Raymarine instruments (STng) & SH VHF radio (NMEA 0183).

What I have:

• B&G Zeus (NMEA 2000)
• RM Smart Pilot X5 - SPX5 (SeaTalk & STng) Computer
• RM ST6002 Control Head (SeaTalk)
• RM i60 Wind w/analog transducer (STng)
• RM i50 Speed w/analog transducer (STng)
• RM i50 Depth w/analog transducer (STng)
• SH GX 2150 VHF / AIS receiver (NMEA 0183)

What I plan to purchase to network everything:

• RM i70 multi-function display instrument
• RM P70S control head
• RM iTC-5 transducer converter
• RM VHF NMEA 0183 to STng converter
• RM STng backbone kit & various connectors (including STng / devicenet converter cable for CP)

Here's my logic:

• To link my STng instruments into the backbone, I need to disconnect the analog transducer cables from the back of individual instruments & convert the ducer signals via the iTC-5. This also requires an i70 master display head to have full functionality of the transducers. I don't mind getting an additional instrument head as I have a space for it on my navpod and it doesn't hurt to have an additional display.
• It seems logical to change out the ST6002 control head to the P70 for full STng functionality. The complicating issue is that RM says that the SPX5 and the P70S must individually be connected to backbone via spur cables (one for each) AND SPX5 requires the latest RM product software when used with P70S. I'm not sure about the necessity of replacing the ST6002 if there is an alternative (converting SeaTalk control head to STng to link with backbone?).
• The VHF receives GPS data from the chartplotter and transmits AIS data to the CP via NMEA 0183. The CP has a NMEA 0183 port and I suppose I could connect the 2 directly, by-passing the backbone. But I think it might be better to link with the backbone via the RM conversion kit.

Other considerations: In the future, if and when I change out instruments & VHF, I am most likely to convert everything to B&G. However, I don't see it very likely that I would ever convert to a below-decks autopilot, so my wheel pilot options are limited.

Any holes or glaring mistakes? Thanks in advance!

 

[Paul Mermelstein]

I went through this a few years ago. You do not have to disconnect the transducer cables at the source. Just run each of them to the iTC-5. Then connect the iTC-5 via a spur cable to your STng backbone. All other instruments, including the chart plotter, should be connected via spur cables to the backbone, and all data thereby shared. You can program any or all of the transducers via the i70. I still have the original 20 year old depth and speed transducers, and a newer wind transducer (since the old one broke), and everything works fine. It looks like the rest of your research and planning is reasonable.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

I'm reading the SPX-5 Setup Guide and it is not clear to me whether or not I should want to change out the control head. The SPX-5 communicates with control head ST6002 via SeaTalk. But the SPX-5 also can be connected to a STng backbone with a simple spur cable connection. What would there be to gain by updating the control head to P70S, if anything?

 

[Scott T-Bird]

The Raymarine STng Reference Manual shows a diagram with ST6002 control head linked to STng backbone with a converter cable and the SPX course computer linked to the STng backbone with a STng spur cable. It appears that there would be no reason to change out my control head.

 

[BarryL]

Hi,

SeatalkNG is the same as NMEA2000. Only the cables and connectors are different. All you need is a converter cable. Raymarine makes them, there may be others.

I don't know how to get the Standard Horizon NMEA0183 data into the Zeus.

Barry

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Hi,

SeatalkNG is the same as NMEA2000. Only the cables and connectors are different. All you need is a converter cable. Raymarine makes them, there may be others.

I don't know how to get the Standard Horizon NMEA0183 data into the Zeus.

Barry

Yes, I'll have no problem with anything going into the backbone. There is a NMEA 0183 port on the Zeus, so it will not be a problem either, but I think it will be better to use the 0183 to STng converter kit that they have and put the radio on the backbone just as easily. I'm not worried about the radio. I think I've got that figured out.

The only question I have right now is whether to upgrade the AP control head from ST6002 to P70S or not. I don't know the difference between the two models. @Ward H is thinking that I'll want the P70S for all the sail-steer functions and chartplotter connectivity that I may not get with the ST6002. I haven't been reading the ST6002 manual yet to know the differences. He's also suggesting that I may find an attractive package if I upgrade the course computer as well ... now we're talking some $$$$$.

I'm also a little concerned about my i60 wind instrument. I'm not getting consistent connection with the transducer cable pin connection. I don't know if it is an issue with the instrument or just the plug. It's not the STng ports that are acting up - they're functioning just fine. There is a very short cable (1') that connects the transducer cable to the instrument. One end of the link has 5 wires with spade connectors at the back of the instrument. The other end is a plug with a 5-pin connector to plug into the transducer cable. The connecting plug with 5 pins seems to be the problem. When I fuss with that plug, it is the only way to get a wind reading for a little while. Something's up with that. I'm thinking that connection will be eliminated with the iTC-5 connection and I'm hoping my problem will just disappear!

 

[Blitz]

I don't see a need to change out your ST6002 control head. You mentioned additional functions but don't think that is so, all the control heads for the AP basically do the same thing. if you were changing to a RM evolution AP then you would need to change the head with the EV-1 sensor core (which is now the course computer) and the APU-100 ( which is basically a power supply). The wheel drive is the same.

My concern would be with what you are proposing if there is anyway on updating the software to all of your Ray Marine instruments without a MFD

 

[Ward H]

@Scott T-Bird Just read a bit about the ST6002. It does have most, if not all of the features, of the P70S control head so I'm thinking that unless you upgrade the course computer and the compass from the fluxgate to gyro compass of the new EV100 system, you probably won't be getting the full benefit of the P70S. No harm in with using the ST6002 and if you find a feature or function you're missing change it out to the P70s later.
The cable connection on the wind transducer cable will be a non issue when you connect it to the iTC5 since you'll be cutting off the plug and putting small spade ends on the wires to connect to the iTC5.

 

[Ward H]

My concern would be with what you are proposing if there is anyway on updating the software to all of your Ray Marine instruments without a MFD

Good point. Scott, we should be able to plug in my Axiom CP to get you the updates.

 

[CarlN]

Are you really getting enough extra functionality from the B&G to be worth all this pain? I’d either get a new RM chartplotter or replace everything with NMEA 2000 compatible equipment. Installing new electronics NEVER goes easily. RM’s ridiculous NMEA 2000 jury rig of converters and non standard cables is not worth the aggravation.

 

[Johann]

I don’t see why you would need the itc-5. Your instruments are already STng, and should transmit over the network one you set up the backbone. It seems to me you just need an STng to N2K cable for the Zeus and the STng backbone kit. I am running ST60 instruments on my STng network (with a converter you shouldn’t need) and the info is available on my Garmin MFD via the STng-N2k cable.

EDIT: Since you have an SPX-5 you will also need to supply power to the STng.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

I don’t see why you would need the itc-5. Your instruments are already STng, and should transmit over the network one you set up the backbone. It seems to me you just need an STng to N2K cable for the Zeus and the STng backbone kit. I am running ST60 instruments on my STng network (with a converter you shouldn’t need) and the info is available on my Garmin MFD via the STng-N2k cable.

EDIT: Since you have an SPX-5 you will also need to supply power to the STng.

Very good point ... you've got me thinking that the only thing I really need to do is set up the backbone and tie everything together with spurs.
Power to the instruments currently comes into the first of 3 on the daisy chain. I assume that I redirect the power to the backbone and daisy chain the instruments into the backbone, or each of the 3 individually with spurs.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

I don't see a need to change out your ST6002 control head. You mentioned additional functions but don't think that is so, all the control heads for the AP basically do the same thing. if you were changing to a RM evolution AP then you would need to change the head with the EV-1 sensor core (which is now the course computer) and the APU-100 ( which is basically a power supply). The wheel drive is the same.

My concern would be with what you are proposing if there is anyway on updating the software to all of your Ray Marine instruments without a MFD

I think you are right ... I'm going to start out by using the control head that I have. As for updating the software on the instruments, I thought that was the purpose for adding the i70 mfd.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Are you really getting enough extra functionality from the B&G to be worth all this pain? I’d either get a new RM chartplotter or replace everything with NMEA 2000 compatible equipment. Installing new electronics NEVER goes easily. RM’s ridiculous NMEA 2000 jury rig of converters and non standard cables is not worth the aggravation.

I'm not really concerned if there is initially some difficulty. Worst case will be that all the components work independently until I start replacing components that are compatible. But seeing that NMEA and STng are basically the same format, just with different plugs, I think there won't be any problems that can't be overcome. The only connectivity that I need right away is between the VHF on 0183 and the new B&G chartplotter (that has a 0183 port), and that connection is already set up with my previous Garmin CP.

I'll eventually be phasing out the old instruments and radio anyway with B&G products. Only the autopilot will be in question someday in the future.

 

[Johann]

Very good point ... you've got me thinking that the only thing I really need to do is set up the backbone and tie everything together with spurs.
Power to the instruments currently comes into the first of 3 on the daisy chain. I assume that I redirect the power to the backbone and daisy chain the instruments into the backbone, or each of the 3 individually with spurs.

Now I’m doubting myself. After looking at the manuals it seems the i50 and i60 can display data from st1 or stng, but don‘t convert. So really daisy chained as they are, they are operating on st1 through the stng cables. So you may need the itc-5, or maybe you could convert the st1 signal to STng with the E22158 kit like I’m doing. It is confusing…

 

[Scott T-Bird]

It is confusing…

I agree. They talk about using the iTC-5 with ST instruments but don't really show any connection with the i instruments. The i instruments have STng ports to daisy chain the instruments and run a spur to the backbone, but I think the transducer connections are ST1. That's because the transducers are analog? I'm guessing the conversion is made in the instrument?? ... but what do I know?

 

[Johann]

I agree. They talk about using the iTC-5 with ST instruments but don't really show any connection with the i instruments. The i instruments have STng ports to daisy chain the instruments and run a spur to the backbone, but I think the transducer connections are ST1. That's because the transducers are analog? I'm guessing the conversion is made in the instrument?? ... but what do I know?

Looking through configuration examples, I can’t find one where the i instruments are daisy chained and then connected to an STng backbone. Only one where they are daisy chained and then connected to the ST1 networked via the STng-ST1 adapter cable. I think if you had the E22158 you could power the STng with the included cable, connect your ST6002 via the yellow cable, and then you would have one port left for the Zeus. This is basically what I’m doing… just with another 5 way to add my N2k AIS and Victron GX.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Here is what Raymarine says about it:

• ST40/i40/i50/i60 and ST60+ displays cannot calibrate the iTC-5
• Only i70 has full transducer calibration
• If you don't have ST70/ST70+ or i70 in your system, then the ST40/i40/i50/i60/ST60+ displays must be interfaced directly to the relavant analogue transducers.

In fact, now I remember reading somewhere else that if you want to calibrate the transducers, you must add i70 to the system. After reading this, I decided that the transducers should be integrated with the iTC-5 and the i70 should also be added. @Paul Mermelstein seemed to confirm this above.

 

[Blitz]

As for updating the software on the instruments, I thought that was the purpose for adding the i70 mfd.

I really don't think you can update your software versions with a i70 instrument.

I like the suggestion to temporarily hook your system up to an axiom Chartplotter you can borrow from Ward H.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

I really don't think you can update your software versions with a i70 instrument.

I like the suggestion to temporarily hook your system up to an axiom Chartplotter you can borrow from Ward H.

I just don't get that part ... what software is in the instruments that needs to be updated? Raymarine only discusses calibration (only if necessary), and they say it needs to be done with an i70 mfd instrument. The only software upgrade I've found them to discuss is the course computer and I've decided not to change it out. What software is on a RM chartplotter that needs to be transferred to the wind, speed & depth instruments?