Need to install gates in lifelines.. Crimper suggestions ?

Mar 20, 2015
3,212
C&C 30 Mk1 Winnipeg
Hello All,

I want to install some gates in the lifelines, so i need to shorten them and crimp on new swage fittings.

I found this crimper that is officially sold by the manufacturer for use with large electrical cables (which is also a handy thing)
They are also being sold online as crimpers for stainless railing cables (for buildings).

I will be calling the manufacture to confirm they would work with stainless cable, but was curious if anyone has used this, or a similar tool for lifelines

 
May 7, 2012
1,523
Hunter e33 Maple Bay, BC
Sorry I can't help you out on the crimper; but, for a one time use and only a half a dozen crimps I would consider taking the life lines to a rigger and have them do it for you. If you are not in a hurry they will probably do it for under $50 and the cost of the material. Cheap insurance.
 

jssailem

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Oct 22, 2014
22,820
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
On my "Life Lines" I decided to use a machine crimp swages. It is said to be the most effective tool for the job with less variance when operated properly.

In my case West Marine had the best price and best turnaround time. That might not be the case in all situations.

For my gates, I used Dyneema and the Johnston hardware designed for Dyneema line. The gate was an easy tie, using a locking brummel knot and a buried tail. Johnson makes hardware that has a smooth curve fitting and ends that connect to standard swage fitted ends. Advantage to the dyneema is feel and the way it easily hangs when not closed. Wire does not always act the same way, especially if you double back and clip the pelican hook back on stanchion - leaving the gate open for visitors.
 
Mar 20, 2015
3,212
C&C 30 Mk1 Winnipeg
I would consider taking the life lines to a rigger and have them do it for you.
In my case West Marine had the best price and best turnaround time. That might not be the case in all situations.


Unfortunately West Marine is not in Canada nor is there a marine rigger here.

If I lived in a big marine area it would be easy. In this case I would have to ship them and wait Lord knows how long to get them back. Obviously I have no choice but to do that for mast rigging, but for lifelines I would guess that DIY is an option ?

I have an inquiry out to a friend in the theatre industry so I hope they can help.

To me the advantage of having the tool is that I can also also do power cable ends for both marine and automotive use. Besides, I hate relying on others and have a 10 foot long tool box. Hehe.
 
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Mar 20, 2015
3,212
C&C 30 Mk1 Winnipeg
Dyneema would work for the gate, but I still need to shorten the existing cable.or replace the the whole thing which I am not willing to do at this point. If I have to do that I would not have a gate and ban guests and crew that can't step over the lifelines.:biggrin:
 
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Oct 26, 2008
6,241
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
Are you sure you need to shorten the cable and crimp new fittings? I was able to add gates at the bow, where I wanted them, without shortening the cables. It was very easy. I added pelican hooks to the quick-attach toggles at the bow end where I wanted the gates. I took up the slack with the turnbuckles at the back end. I added clamps at the 1st set of stanchions to keep the lifelines tight behind the stanchion when the gate is open. Now I have a set of gates at the stern and a set of gates at the bow. I suppose it may not work if you want gates somewhere midships or if your turnbuckles already don't have enough space to take up the slack ... it only needed about 1.5" or less (the length of the pelican hooks).
 
Jan 11, 2014
12,752
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
The crimpers designed for electrical work are designed to make good electrical connections. I would not trust a life line made using inappropriate tools. Electrical connections are made with a soft metal, copper. SS is a hard metal. Additionally the dies for the crimpers need to be correct size or the crimp won't hold.

To do rigging you will need a swaging tool designed for swaging SS fittings. Rigging shops have these. There are rigging shops in Canada and I"m sure they will do them for very little money, if you remove them and send them the wire.

There are DIY lifeline kits, I'm pretty sure a Binnacle or another Canadian company sells them.
 
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jssailem

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Oct 22, 2014
22,820
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
I wonder in your area where do arborists or landscapers go to get their rigs for tree work. Where do truckers get their cables spiced to hold the loads on their trucks. We have an industrial shop that serves industry with rigging hardware (not a sail rigger). They have the equipment, skills and testing resources to provide a safe lifeline. They may not have the hardware for a boat, but you could purchase that and ttake the cable and hardware to them.
 
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Oct 6, 2007
1,119
Hunter H30 1982 Chicago IL
I’m with dlochner on this. Use the right tool or send it out to someone who can do a proper, safe swage fitting.

Also, if the stanchions at your new gates are not designed as gate stanchions, you should add gate braces to reinforce them. I believe that Garhauer sells gate braces.
 
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Mar 20, 2015
3,212
C&C 30 Mk1 Winnipeg
The crimpers designed for electrical work are designed to make good electrical connections. I would not trust a life line made using inappropriate tools. Electrical connections are made with a soft metal, copper. SS is a hard metal. Additionally the dies for the crimpers need to be correct size or the crimp won't hold.
These are also also sold for swages on stainless steel cable railings, which would seem to be the same effective purpose as lifelines ?

Review say it works well for many people doing railings if used correctly.

Additionally the dies for the crimpers need to be correct size or the crimp won't hold
different dies are available for the tool. Not sure if cable or fittings used for lifelines are different than those of the same appearance meant for safety railings. Hmm.


There are rigging shops in Canada and I"m sure they will do them for very little money, if you remove them and send them the wire.
Yes. The marine rigging shops are all 1500 miles away. Given the current BS with getting parts or shipping items I would then just do it as a winter project .

Also, if the stanchions at your new gates are not designed as gate stanchions, you should add gate braces to reinforce them. I believe that Garhauer sells gate braces.
Good point. FWIW I didnt plan on having a gate stanchion per se. I just wanted to install a hook at the stern to allow disconnect at the dock. (Loading supplies or people who have mobility issues) There is already a gate in the stern pulpit for boarding via the stern ladder.

Unfortunately i can't find a hardware pelican combo that matches the length of the turnbuckle and amount of play in the cable

Fortunately I found a used stanchion locally, but have yet to go see it.
 
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Mar 20, 2015
3,212
C&C 30 Mk1 Winnipeg
Where do truckers get their cables spiced to hold the loads on their trucks. We have an industrial shop that serves industry with rigging hardware (not a sail rigger).
That is the same vein as me contacting the theatre industry. I know people who hang speakers and lighting grids and assemble towers etc for concerts and theatre production.

I had not thought of the trucking ndustry. In my experience they used load chains not cables, but that may have changed. Fortunately we are a major trucking hub and the support companies for that industry are plentiful here . :beer:
 
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Jan 11, 2014
12,752
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
These are also also sold for swages on stainless steel cable railings, which would seem to be the same effective purpose as lifelines ?

Review say it works well for many people doing railings if used correctly.


different dies are available for the tool. Not sure if cable or fittings used for lifelines are different than those of the same appearance meant for safety railings. Hmm.



Yes. The marine rigging shops are all 1500 miles away. Given the current BS with getting parts or shipping items I would then just do it as a winter project .


Good point. FWIW I didnt plan on having a gate stanchion per se. I just wanted to install a hook at the stern to allow disconnect at the dock. (Loading supplies or people who have mobility issues) There is already a gate in the stern pulpit for boarding via the stern ladder.

Unfortunately i can't find a hardware pelican combo that matches the length of the turnbuckle and amount of play in the cable

Fortunately I found a used stanchion locally, but have yet to go see it.
Can you post a link to the device you are considering? Also take a look at the link below about making battery cables, RC talks about the qualtity of crimp tools in the article.

Tools that do lots of jobs, seldom do any them well.


 
Jun 11, 2004
1,734
Oday 31 Redondo Beach
He put an Amazon link in the original post.

Here is a link to the manufacturer's description:

 
Feb 6, 1998
11,701
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
He put an Amazon link in the original post.

Here is a link to the manufacturer's description:

We bought a crimp tool from Temco a frew years ago. They told us the dies were AWG.. They lied. The tool made horrible crimps because all the dies were the wrong size.. You could not pay me to trust LIFE LINES to a cheap Chinese crimp tool.. or any hand crimped fitting for that matter even if you bought the tool from Loos...If you want to DIY go mechanical...
 
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Jan 11, 2014
12,752
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
He put an Amazon link in the original post.

Here is a link to the manufacturer's description:

Thank you for the link. I'm out in remote places and have unreliable internet access so it isn't easy to look up stuff.

The issue to consider is the force applied to the wire when it is most needed, that is, when some one goes crashing into the lifeline from 6 or more feet away. The link notes that this is not for sailboat rigging. Architectural rigging, you know the the type that is in current favor is not really designed to stop a person who has fallen 6+ feet into a pitching sailboat lifeline. It is designed to look attractive and keep little people from walking under the more substantial railing and falling off a deck. A very different application.

Riggers charge around $10 for a proper swage. For a few dollars, why mess around with an unknown device that would cost more?
 
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Jun 9, 2008
1,792
- -- -Bayfield
I do this for a living and there are 4 basic ways of attaching ends on to cables. For lifelines, C Sherman Johnson Marine has fittings that look like machine swage fittings, called Hand crimp fittings, but are attached by putting the wire inside the tube and crimping it down along the shaft with a Nicro Press tool that is not like the ones used in other industries. They look a lot like a swage fitting, but are different. The tools available to do this are either bench mounted with one handle, or a tool that is like the crimper most people have been writing about with two handles much like a bolt cutter, but it crimps the fitting secure to the wire.
Another way, when you use one of the two types of crimpers I just mentioned, is to Nicro Press a loop, with a SS thimble inside the loop and then an oval collar is crimped to secure the loop and you attach fittings on to that loop. Or, if the fitting doesn't have a clevis pin to open up the hardware you want to attach, then you thread the loop through the fitting and then Nicro Press the oval sleeve with a thimble.
There is another available tool that is totally mechanical, cheaper and slower. It is two aluminum pieces that have different size crimp orifices for different size cable/fittings and much like a flare tool used for metal hoses, you slowly crimp down the piece with the tightening of the wing nuts which squeezes the two halves crimping the fitting. The larger crimp tools mentioned above have different size orifices for different sized cable/fittings.
The stronger and more expensive method of attaching fittings to bare cable is a swage machine with dies to match the various cable fitting sizes. There are hydraulic swagers (pronounced "swedger") , like what I have, or mechanical swagers that can be bench mounted or hand held. The latter are often called banana swagers because if you aren't careful and don't take the time to rotate the fitting, the fitting will end up bent like a banana shape rather than staying straight. This is not so much a problem with hydraulic swagers.
The other kind of terminal fittings for cable are the likes of Sta-Lok which comes apart with tools. They have basically two pieces that house everything and then a wedge to bend the wire around and a former that jams the wire ends and it all screws together sort of like a shaft stuffing box.
Hand Crimp fittings look like swage fittings, but are very different and you do not want to put a hand crimp fitting into a swage machine and you do not want to try to hand crimp a swage fitting.
With vinyl cable used for lifelines, you have to trim the vinyl off the wire the right length so the wire fits into the fitting and if you are good at it, the vinyl will butt up to the fitting perfectly. C Sherman Johnson even makes a tool shaped like a corkscrew (but fatter), that sort of works like a pencil sharpener to peel off the vinyl coating.
Be safe and don't let anyone tell you that a crimper from a different industry will do a proper job. It won't.
 
May 29, 2018
569
Canel 25 foot Shiogama, japan
Barnicle Bill has hit the nail.
The trouble with the remote rigger suggestion is that you cannot just remove the lifeline, cut it, send it to a rigger, have the ends swagged to you specs and THEN expect it to thread back through you stanchion eyes.
The new fittings will not fit through.
I know, because to have a stanchion base welded up i had to remove all of my stanchions an lifeline and take the lot to the fabrication shop.

The answer is SATLOK fittings.
You can do it your self on the boat an there is no problem with swage failure.
 
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Jan 11, 2014
12,752
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
Barnicle Bill has hit the nail.
The trouble with the remote rigger suggestion is that you cannot just remove the lifeline, cut it, send it to a rigger, have the ends swagged to you specs and THEN expect it to thread back through you stanchion eyes.
The new fittings will not fit through.
I know, because to have a stanchion base welded up i had to remove all of my stanchions an lifeline and take the lot to the fabrication shop.

The answer is SATLOK fittings.
You can do it your self on the boat an there is no problem with swage failure.
This is not accurate. I removed all my lifelines sent them to Rigging Only in Fairhaven, MA and they sent back lifelines that were an exact copy.
 
May 29, 2018
569
Canel 25 foot Shiogama, japan
Hi Dave
On my life lines the spliced eye at each end is a larger diameter than the eye (that it is led through ) on the top of the stanchion.
Just mentioning my situation, which is not so rare.
In my case you can splice (or swage a fitting) to one end and thread the line through, but you have to do the other end on site.

gary
 
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