I have a Hunter 28.5. It has a shoal keel, folding prop and totally new sails(155 genowa). I am not performing well in our local races. Would love to move up the fleet. Any advice? Would be willing to help crew in order to become more familiar with how to race the boat. Any help would be appreciated. Skip Smith
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WoW
When I first started racing, after reading all of the books and seeking advice from the alleged pros, I found the answer to be simple. Follow the winners! Find a boat in your fleet that is rated the same as yours and is winning or right up at the top. Follow that boat and if you can't keep up, understand why. Analyze where your losing ground. Pointing? Running? at the start? Remember where you are at the first mark is probably where you'll finish, so starts are important. Try to improve each race - if you like it you will be racing for a long time so starting out last and improving to mid fleet by seasons end will set you up for next year. Good Luck
When I first started racing, after reading all of the books and seeking advice from the alleged pros, I found the answer to be simple. Follow the winners! Find a boat in your fleet that is rated the same as yours and is winning or right up at the top. Follow that boat and if you can't keep up, understand why. Analyze where your losing ground. Pointing? Running? at the start? Remember where you are at the first mark is probably where you'll finish, so starts are important. Try to improve each race - if you like it you will be racing for a long time so starting out last and improving to mid fleet by seasons end will set you up for next year. Good Luck
Crew, Rules, Practice and Tactics
Hi Skip, Sounds like you've got yourself a nice boat for some good racing. It might be helpful to crew on one of the leader boats a few times but concentration on sailing your own boat and developing a good crew is a better long range plan. Joe's advice is good for a couple of reasons: you can learn from watching but by covering a good boat, gain the advantage of sailing in the same wind conditions and shifts as the more experienced racer. Having a good crew is an essential ingredient. Try to get a couple of sailors that can be regular crew. Racing requires good teamwork and practice. Try to get out on the water with your crew and run through starting procedures, mark roundings, tacking, etc., on non racing days. Know the rules!!! A good knowledge of the racing rules helps you make the rules work for you and not suffer penalties. The Rules can be found here: http://www.sailing.org/newrules/rulesframes/default.html Also study any local rules your club has. Learn strategy and tactics form the experts: There are some good videos and books that will help. Make starting a priority! Every second behind the line after the gun goes off is time lost. Here is a good site that covers the basics and more: http://www.uiowa.edu/~sail/skills/racing_basics/ Good luck, Dick Vance H-25.5 "Honey Bear"
Hi Skip, Sounds like you've got yourself a nice boat for some good racing. It might be helpful to crew on one of the leader boats a few times but concentration on sailing your own boat and developing a good crew is a better long range plan. Joe's advice is good for a couple of reasons: you can learn from watching but by covering a good boat, gain the advantage of sailing in the same wind conditions and shifts as the more experienced racer. Having a good crew is an essential ingredient. Try to get a couple of sailors that can be regular crew. Racing requires good teamwork and practice. Try to get out on the water with your crew and run through starting procedures, mark roundings, tacking, etc., on non racing days. Know the rules!!! A good knowledge of the racing rules helps you make the rules work for you and not suffer penalties. The Rules can be found here: http://www.sailing.org/newrules/rulesframes/default.html Also study any local rules your club has. Learn strategy and tactics form the experts: There are some good videos and books that will help. Make starting a priority! Every second behind the line after the gun goes off is time lost. Here is a good site that covers the basics and more: http://www.uiowa.edu/~sail/skills/racing_basics/ Good luck, Dick Vance H-25.5 "Honey Bear"
Time,time time
This season will be my fourth season racing with my two sons on our 25.5 on the Ohio River.The boys are now 14
This season will be my fourth season racing with my two sons on our 25.5 on the Ohio River.The boys are now 14
Practise.
New boatie: 'How do I get from here to the trophy presentation?' Salt: 'Practise!' You can NEVER underestimate the value of practice. I don't mean practice just by being in a race. Practise sail changes and coming-about and rounding buoys with your regular crew at least once a week in season, more beforehand. I think it's important to separate 'race practice' from 'family fun time' though. Marriages have been lost in the wake of competitive zeal (read that: indulgences of testosterone). Also-- I have found that it doesn't matter how much experience your crew have, so long as they gain experience as a crew together. We often raced with people who had never really sailed before we offered them crew positions. The key ingredient is not salient sailing experience but the ability and willingness to get along, work hard, and follow a skippers' directions-- the last being key. Winning race boats are NOT run by committee thinking but by clear direction and prior planning. A word on that-- the tactician or strategist for a crew of 4-6 should NOT be the helmsman. If you've only got 4 on a sloop give the mainsheet to the strategist (since it's a boat throttle) but no other jobs than that. He should NEVER go forward, for example. Also-- reward your crew. Buy two rounds at the pub after each evening's practice and dinner after the race. Gather AWAY from the boat often. It will fast become social as well and that's a good thing. Bossy skippers more interested in 'making a good showing' than being humane towards their own crews ultimately do not win enough that we should care. Ironically they look assinine to the rest of us in the end. One last thought: by all means, COPY the best guys out there. Your initial scouting missions (first 2-3 races) should reveal the best guys and for each race, concentrate on aping every move they make. This may irritate them but as long as you stay out of their way they'll respect that you are trying to learn. It's not like they have patents on their ideas anyway. Stay behind them and keep your eyes open and your mouths shut (sound carries over water, so mind the discretion of your comments-- and curses). One last stupid old anecdote: When we were racing the River with Antigone (race-modified 1978 Raider 33), there was a septogenarian named Tom who sailed a 1964 Columbia 24 with a foredeck guy whom we called 'Deadman' because he was about 80 and moved with the agility of a dying ape. Despite what you would think Tom really did hang right WITH the J-24s for most of the races. We would wonder what side of the river we should be on for the prevailing conditions and observe, 'Well look, guys, Tom's all the way over there. That's where we should be.' 'Wrong,' my dad would say. 'That's where we should have been FIFTEEN MINUTES AGO.' The problem with Tom was that his PHRF was so high for that boat (220?) that you couldn't beat him on rating. For our first season the only pennants we got were from when Tom did not race. If we could see him in the pack at all it meant the rest of us had already lost! JC II
New boatie: 'How do I get from here to the trophy presentation?' Salt: 'Practise!' You can NEVER underestimate the value of practice. I don't mean practice just by being in a race. Practise sail changes and coming-about and rounding buoys with your regular crew at least once a week in season, more beforehand. I think it's important to separate 'race practice' from 'family fun time' though. Marriages have been lost in the wake of competitive zeal (read that: indulgences of testosterone). Also-- I have found that it doesn't matter how much experience your crew have, so long as they gain experience as a crew together. We often raced with people who had never really sailed before we offered them crew positions. The key ingredient is not salient sailing experience but the ability and willingness to get along, work hard, and follow a skippers' directions-- the last being key. Winning race boats are NOT run by committee thinking but by clear direction and prior planning. A word on that-- the tactician or strategist for a crew of 4-6 should NOT be the helmsman. If you've only got 4 on a sloop give the mainsheet to the strategist (since it's a boat throttle) but no other jobs than that. He should NEVER go forward, for example. Also-- reward your crew. Buy two rounds at the pub after each evening's practice and dinner after the race. Gather AWAY from the boat often. It will fast become social as well and that's a good thing. Bossy skippers more interested in 'making a good showing' than being humane towards their own crews ultimately do not win enough that we should care. Ironically they look assinine to the rest of us in the end. One last thought: by all means, COPY the best guys out there. Your initial scouting missions (first 2-3 races) should reveal the best guys and for each race, concentrate on aping every move they make. This may irritate them but as long as you stay out of their way they'll respect that you are trying to learn. It's not like they have patents on their ideas anyway. Stay behind them and keep your eyes open and your mouths shut (sound carries over water, so mind the discretion of your comments-- and curses). One last stupid old anecdote: When we were racing the River with Antigone (race-modified 1978 Raider 33), there was a septogenarian named Tom who sailed a 1964 Columbia 24 with a foredeck guy whom we called 'Deadman' because he was about 80 and moved with the agility of a dying ape. Despite what you would think Tom really did hang right WITH the J-24s for most of the races. We would wonder what side of the river we should be on for the prevailing conditions and observe, 'Well look, guys, Tom's all the way over there. That's where we should be.' 'Wrong,' my dad would say. 'That's where we should have been FIFTEEN MINUTES AGO.' The problem with Tom was that his PHRF was so high for that boat (220?) that you couldn't beat him on rating. For our first season the only pennants we got were from when Tom did not race. If we could see him in the pack at all it meant the rest of us had already lost! JC II
second yeart racing a 28.5 SD
Skip - If your are like me I want quick fixes. I will give a few things that so far have helped me alot this year. 1st an biggest help is having a great tactician. I have a new guy on my boat this year who has dingy and j 44 experience and has taught me a lot. In the 2 races I have moved up and beatten boats that I have never beaten until this year. My prerace planning is much better and I don't have to keep my head in the boat. The 28.5 is VERY TENDER boat. as was mentioned the main drives the boat. It is easly over powered. I continually had too much helm last year. Speed looked good except I was going sideways. Weight is also very important on this boat. Down wind get your crew out of the cock pit. Light air have your crew move slow when you are adjusting sails ect. I had a 155 and recut it to a 150. seems to help with my pointing. I felt that the slot was too small with the 155 an besides I was pentalized here 2 seconds with a 155 in Ohio I was not. Some other things that have helped is a back stay adjuster. I am not sure yet but I think our boat sails better sailing higher angles then just going wing on wing down wind. I would like to purchase a polar diagram from boat US. They are $200. If we can get 4 of us I think it would be reasonable. Are you interested? I would love to get some more info from seasoned guys that have 28.5. Keep in touch during the season. fullaways@aol.com or bfullaway@nepginc.com
Skip - If your are like me I want quick fixes. I will give a few things that so far have helped me alot this year. 1st an biggest help is having a great tactician. I have a new guy on my boat this year who has dingy and j 44 experience and has taught me a lot. In the 2 races I have moved up and beatten boats that I have never beaten until this year. My prerace planning is much better and I don't have to keep my head in the boat. The 28.5 is VERY TENDER boat. as was mentioned the main drives the boat. It is easly over powered. I continually had too much helm last year. Speed looked good except I was going sideways. Weight is also very important on this boat. Down wind get your crew out of the cock pit. Light air have your crew move slow when you are adjusting sails ect. I had a 155 and recut it to a 150. seems to help with my pointing. I felt that the slot was too small with the 155 an besides I was pentalized here 2 seconds with a 155 in Ohio I was not. Some other things that have helped is a back stay adjuster. I am not sure yet but I think our boat sails better sailing higher angles then just going wing on wing down wind. I would like to purchase a polar diagram from boat US. They are $200. If we can get 4 of us I think it would be reasonable. Are you interested? I would love to get some more info from seasoned guys that have 28.5. Keep in touch during the season. fullaways@aol.com or bfullaway@nepginc.com
Skip: I don't know if you are a beginner like we were three years ago. If so, this may help. We purchased a new Hunter 340 three years ago and we were not performing well at all. When we asked for help, everyone was very helpful and the answers typically focused on what I would call general tactics and strategy(favored side of the line, favored side, recognizing wind shifts, following the leader, etc.) Unfortunately, that doesn't help if you can't keep up with the leader. What we learned is that there is a reason that the America's Cup teams spend millions of dollars designing their boats. The reason is that the best racers in the world can't win in a slow boat and as Dennis Connor also said in his book, no one will ever win a Star Championship using a boat right off the assembly line. The biggest thing we underestimated was how much modification is needed to make a boat go fast. Therefore, I'd recommend the following: Focus first on making the boat fast, second on how to sail your boat fast, and then finally on tactics. Here is what we learned (we are new to racing so hopefully long-time racers will be easy on me if they disagree): 1) Get new sails - The dacron sails shipped with the sailboat are ineffective for racing. The sail stretches too much especially in heavy air causing excessive heeling and lack of pointing. This compounded with the 340's huge main means too much heeling. We went to Kevlar which has made an unbelievable difference. This is the single biggest change and shaved probably 20-30 minutes off of our time. 2) Add a feathering prop and mark the shaft so the blades are in-line with the keel at the start of the race. Put the throttle in reverse to prevent free spin. 3) Coat the bottom of the boat in VC-17 to reduce drap. Recommend two coats at the beginning of the year. 4) Clean the bottom of the boat every 1-2 weeks. This helps a lot and all the racers are doing this. 5) The 340 does not have a backstay so the forestay tension is too loose in heavy winds causing too much draft and sagging in the jib and lack of pointing. We have tightened the rig to help this problem. 6) Remove as much extra "cruising" weight that we brought onto the boat. Empty the water tanks, keep the gas to 1/4 tank or less, etc. 7) Purchase a Whisker pole for downwind. This really helps to hold the jib out for wing-on-wing in jib and main racing. 8) The 340 only had two winches so we installed an extra. This is the only way to pull in the jib and the main simultaneously on the port tack. 9) Just added a barberhauler to help with jib sail shape on reaching. 10) Add a heel reading device. We were surprised how quickly the Hunter will heel more than 20 degrees. 11) Add proper electronics - GPS, wind speed and direction and make sure they are calibrated. This is what came to mind from memory. The next step is to learn how to sail our boat fast. For example, we learned that our boat is heavy so don't get caught near other boats at the start. Make sure to get speed before pointing. In Lake Michigan in the spring the cold water causes wind sheer which means port tack is difficult. And we get overpowered easy so we can pinch more during heavy air to keep from heeling and slowing us down. Obviously, tactics are what we are learning now. We are trying to get better at recognizing wind shifts etc. But at least now we are competitive and the tactics will make the difference. Good Luck!
Good Start
Everybody has pretty much said everything you need for starters. One more thing I'd add is try to get over the line when the gun goes off. It's amazing how many places are lost by just seconds and if you're late at the start this costs second for second. Since you already have the feathering prop, the botom finish and barberhauler are really important. Learn how to adjust/trim your sails - this doesn't cost anything. Typically the really light boats will beat the fleet at the end of the year because they do well in light air and they can get up on a plane in heavy air so beating these guys will be difficult. If you don't need it to sail take it off the boat - it adds weight. Unless you just want to have fun. One guy I know with a Hobie 33 has a porta potti and says that anyone that uses it has to empty it.
Everybody has pretty much said everything you need for starters. One more thing I'd add is try to get over the line when the gun goes off. It's amazing how many places are lost by just seconds and if you're late at the start this costs second for second. Since you already have the feathering prop, the botom finish and barberhauler are really important. Learn how to adjust/trim your sails - this doesn't cost anything. Typically the really light boats will beat the fleet at the end of the year because they do well in light air and they can get up on a plane in heavy air so beating these guys will be difficult. If you don't need it to sail take it off the boat - it adds weight. Unless you just want to have fun. One guy I know with a Hobie 33 has a porta potti and says that anyone that uses it has to empty it.
Skip, Come race with me sometime!!
Skip, I am racing my 23 on Lake Wylie, just South of Charlotte. I am always looking for crew, if you want to come along we are racing Sat morning at 0930, June 16. Shoot me an email at "wsdavis@fmtc.net" if you want to come along. We do pretty well overall finishing third out of 14 boats last race. The 23 has a wing keel, so I have found that pointing is not always the fastest way to the first mark. In my boat, I go for clear air, and speed. Try cracking the sheets a few inches and duck under boats ahead of you. Keep your speed at all cost and don't make un-necessary tacks. Each tack costs you 2-3 boats lengths. Check out the club web page below. Lots of great photo's. Scott Davis H23 "No Alibi"
Skip, I am racing my 23 on Lake Wylie, just South of Charlotte. I am always looking for crew, if you want to come along we are racing Sat morning at 0930, June 16. Shoot me an email at "wsdavis@fmtc.net" if you want to come along. We do pretty well overall finishing third out of 14 boats last race. The 23 has a wing keel, so I have found that pointing is not always the fastest way to the first mark. In my boat, I go for clear air, and speed. Try cracking the sheets a few inches and duck under boats ahead of you. Keep your speed at all cost and don't make un-necessary tacks. Each tack costs you 2-3 boats lengths. Check out the club web page below. Lots of great photo's. Scott Davis H23 "No Alibi"
Sailing help
I would suggest you contact Nigel Pitt who lives on Lake Hartwell. He is one of the top Catamaran Sailors in the world. Ask him for some advice and tell him Wes COlley refered you to him.
I would suggest you contact Nigel Pitt who lives on Lake Hartwell. He is one of the top Catamaran Sailors in the world. Ask him for some advice and tell him Wes COlley refered you to him.
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