I have recently purchased an old solid bronze head to restore. It is a Wilcox Crittenden "Winner - type 1" with "SANDS" embedded on the bronze and on the porcelain. Does anybody know anything about this modle? I need to find a repair kit and a schematic or manual, the Wilcox web site does not have a reference for this type. I would also like to know the approximate age of the toilet. Thanks for you help. Garry
- Status
Hooboy...it IS old!
At least 30 years old, maybe even older. I'm gonna have to talk to Wilcox to find out just what it is. One of my old W-C catalogs does show a repair kit--kit 1523--for the "Winner," but that catalog is at least 6-7 years old, when W-C still a division of North and Judd...so I don't know if it's still available. Can you email me a photograph--more than one, in fact...taken from enough sides to provide a full view of the entire pump, but NOT one taken from directly above it. peghall@sbcglobal.net
At least 30 years old, maybe even older. I'm gonna have to talk to Wilcox to find out just what it is. One of my old W-C catalogs does show a repair kit--kit 1523--for the "Winner," but that catalog is at least 6-7 years old, when W-C still a division of North and Judd...so I don't know if it's still available. Can you email me a photograph--more than one, in fact...taken from enough sides to provide a full view of the entire pump, but NOT one taken from directly above it. peghall@sbcglobal.net
Great!
Peggy, Thanks for your quick reply. I found the toilet in Canada over the weekend, it was being used as a planter. I have been looking for a "bronze throne" since you suggested it to me in your reply to my post in 11/2000 (the European household toilet did not work out). It is going into our 1925 classic yacht. I was wanting something functional as well as looking somewhat period to the era. I spent the last few evenings cleaning and disassembling, and have brought the bronze parts to have them refinished. It will take a week or so before I can get them back and I will post a picture. I sure appreciate your assistance in researching this model, amazingly the bronze and the bowl, after many years of dirt and grime were removed, were all in great condition. I need to find a repair kit, all of the valves were shot.
Peggy, Thanks for your quick reply. I found the toilet in Canada over the weekend, it was being used as a planter. I have been looking for a "bronze throne" since you suggested it to me in your reply to my post in 11/2000 (the European household toilet did not work out). It is going into our 1925 classic yacht. I was wanting something functional as well as looking somewhat period to the era. I spent the last few evenings cleaning and disassembling, and have brought the bronze parts to have them refinished. It will take a week or so before I can get them back and I will post a picture. I sure appreciate your assistance in researching this model, amazingly the bronze and the bowl, after many years of dirt and grime were removed, were all in great condition. I need to find a repair kit, all of the valves were shot.
I talked to Wilcox...
I could just have given you their phone number, but there aren't many toilets out there I've never heard of, and I wanted know about it too. The service kit for the Winner--1523--is still available...and based on what I learned about it, prob'ly always will be. Impossible to say exactly how old it is...as I suspected, at least 30 years--it's been out of production that long...but it could be 60 or older--it was made that long. Comparable new--but prob'ly not as well made 'cuz nothing made today is--would be the Skipper or Imperial, which sells for $800-1000 and have lifespans measured in centuries, not just years. So unless a bronze part that's no longer made has worn out, you should be able to restore it to full working order again...and your great grandchildren should still be able to keep it working. I forgot to ask the price for the kit...I suspect it's in the same range as the ones for the Skipper and Imperial--$80-$100. Wilcox is faxing me the Installation and Maintenance Instructions as I type this, so you can also get one when you call to order the kit. If you have questions, you want to talk to Curt (Kurt?). W-C's phone # is 401-846-1125. No need to send me photos now...but I'd love to have one or two of it after you've completely restored it.
I could just have given you their phone number, but there aren't many toilets out there I've never heard of, and I wanted know about it too. The service kit for the Winner--1523--is still available...and based on what I learned about it, prob'ly always will be. Impossible to say exactly how old it is...as I suspected, at least 30 years--it's been out of production that long...but it could be 60 or older--it was made that long. Comparable new--but prob'ly not as well made 'cuz nothing made today is--would be the Skipper or Imperial, which sells for $800-1000 and have lifespans measured in centuries, not just years. So unless a bronze part that's no longer made has worn out, you should be able to restore it to full working order again...and your great grandchildren should still be able to keep it working. I forgot to ask the price for the kit...I suspect it's in the same range as the ones for the Skipper and Imperial--$80-$100. Wilcox is faxing me the Installation and Maintenance Instructions as I type this, so you can also get one when you call to order the kit. If you have questions, you want to talk to Curt (Kurt?). W-C's phone # is 401-846-1125. No need to send me photos now...but I'd love to have one or two of it after you've completely restored it.
And folk's that's why..
she's called the "Head Mistress". Great work Peggy. It's a pleasure knowing you're out here to help us. Don
she's called the "Head Mistress". Great work Peggy. It's a pleasure knowing you're out here to help us. Don
And now you also know why
I continue to participate in forums. It's boat owners who keep me up to date and on a never-ending (I hope!) learning curve... You're the ones who let me know what the most common problems are--industry sources only educate me on how to fix 'em. Just when I think there are no new questions, someone will ask one...and occasionally even find a toilet I've never heard of. So it's definitely a two way street!
I continue to participate in forums. It's boat owners who keep me up to date and on a never-ending (I hope!) learning curve... You're the ones who let me know what the most common problems are--industry sources only educate me on how to fix 'em. Just when I think there are no new questions, someone will ask one...and occasionally even find a toilet I've never heard of. So it's definitely a two way street!
Thanks again!!
Peggy, I certainly ditto Don's sentiments. When I purchased this old dirty toilet, I had confidence, based on the past postings and excellent reply's you have always given on this forum, that you could help steer me in the right direction to get it up and functional again. Thanks again for your continued assistance on this forum. Your experience, knowledge and support are priceless!!!! I will send you some pictures when I get it completed. Garry
Peggy, I certainly ditto Don's sentiments. When I purchased this old dirty toilet, I had confidence, based on the past postings and excellent reply's you have always given on this forum, that you could help steer me in the right direction to get it up and functional again. Thanks again for your continued assistance on this forum. Your experience, knowledge and support are priceless!!!! I will send you some pictures when I get it completed. Garry
This one was fun!
A LOT more interesting to research than why the same toilets spit up.
Not only would I love to see photos of the toilet...I especially want to see the 1925 classic yacht it's going into! Btw...have you found the Wooden Boat forum yet? Should be an excellent add-on to this one. http://media5.hypernet.com/cgi-bin/UBB/ultimatebb.cgi
A LOT more interesting to research than why the same toilets spit up.
Not only would I love to see photos of the toilet...I especially want to see the 1925 classic yacht it's going into! Btw...have you found the Wooden Boat forum yet? Should be an excellent add-on to this one. http://media5.hypernet.com/cgi-bin/UBB/ultimatebb.cgiPictures on web
Peggy, The following web site for the Classic Yacht Association (the Pacific Nortwest Chapter)has many pictures of our boat the "Haida Princess" as well as many other beautiful old masterpieces. We hope to soon add another picture of of our new (old) addition of the WC Winner, the "bronze throne". The web site is /www.nwclassicyacht.org/. The pictures are under the Classic Gallery tab. Thanks again, Garry
Peggy, The following web site for the Classic Yacht Association (the Pacific Nortwest Chapter)has many pictures of our boat the "Haida Princess" as well as many other beautiful old masterpieces. We hope to soon add another picture of of our new (old) addition of the WC Winner, the "bronze throne". The web site is /www.nwclassicyacht.org/. The pictures are under the Classic Gallery tab. Thanks again, Garry
WOW Garry
That's one beautiful boat. It really puts we Hunter Owners' worries about finishing our 3 strips of teak into perspective!
That's one beautiful boat. It really puts we Hunter Owners' worries about finishing our 3 strips of teak into perspective!
Brightwork
Don, the sanding and varnishing never really ends. For those of us who really love the classic lines of these boats as well as the craftmanship of the era and the warm beauty that all of the wood reflects, the brightwork is a small price to pay. Now I will have a nice toilet to polish also. Garry
Don, the sanding and varnishing never really ends. For those of us who really love the classic lines of these boats as well as the craftmanship of the era and the warm beauty that all of the wood reflects, the brightwork is a small price to pay. Now I will have a nice toilet to polish also. Garry
Fabulous! (and so is the scenery!)
What is she, Garry? And what size? What I could see of the dinghy looks like it could be a classic old Cape Dory rowing/sailing pram.
What is she, Garry? And what size? What I could see of the dinghy looks like it could be a classic old Cape Dory rowing/sailing pram.
One of..
Good eye on the dinghy, you are correct. The Haida Princess is 36' long and was designed and built by R.D. Helmer. She was launched in 1925 and was the only one made like her (hence the name "one of"). There were not many boat building companies that had production yachts in the early 20's. Lake Union, Blanchard and Monk really did not get into production till the late 20's. Helmer also had some lumber companies and a door and sash company in Canada. As you can see in the interrior photo's, Helmer used only the best wood, Burmese teak, Alaskan cedar and ribbon grained mohogany, which combined with his cabinetry skills has contrubuted to the Haida Princess looking so well even at 78 yrs. old. If you are ever in the Portland Or. area, please email me at gnash@lsil.com, I would love to take you out for a cruise.
Good eye on the dinghy, you are correct. The Haida Princess is 36' long and was designed and built by R.D. Helmer. She was launched in 1925 and was the only one made like her (hence the name "one of"). There were not many boat building companies that had production yachts in the early 20's. Lake Union, Blanchard and Monk really did not get into production till the late 20's. Helmer also had some lumber companies and a door and sash company in Canada. As you can see in the interrior photo's, Helmer used only the best wood, Burmese teak, Alaskan cedar and ribbon grained mohogany, which combined with his cabinetry skills has contrubuted to the Haida Princess looking so well even at 78 yrs. old. If you are ever in the Portland Or. area, please email me at gnash@lsil.com, I would love to take you out for a cruise.
- Status