Hi, I am looking for a used in top condition. sailboat that will fit my families needs, I have 3 kids my wife and myself, we would probably use it to cruise to catalina and the harbor, I also plan on having a slip in wilmington, I want to also be able to take an additional 2-3 friends on day sails. I guess something that sleeps at least 5, but can carry 8-9 passegers. I Know what my slip fees are per foot. I want something I wont out grow in 5years. Later I hope to upgrade to 40' or more. I was looking at 25' catalina, but someone told me it would be too small, so I am up for suggestions. I have small craft experience. Tanks. Jon
Need help w/ picking out a sailboat.
- Thread starter Jpmt
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Think bigger
Jon, I found the process of selecting a boat will grow in proportion to the amount of information you pick up as you begin the selection process. We originally decided a 34' boat would be perfect after seeing one in San Diego on a Harbor Cruise. Then I saw this model at the Long Beach Boat show and found it woefully small. We next upscaled to a 38' and didn't like the interior. Finally, the 41' was selected. Our reasons for it were the following: 1. Heavier and more stable when going to Catalina. 2. More tankage. 3. Longer water line equates to a faster boat. 4. Very comfortable for large groups of people that will gravitate to your new toy. 5. A more powerful motor. 6. Two heads and accomodations for two couples. My suggestion is to sit down and decide what you want to use the boat for. Don't limit yourselves at this stage. If you think there might be the most remote possibility of wanting to race, take this into consideration. Racing was not on my list when I bought the boat, but as you get familiar with being on the water, believe me, you will want to do this. Pick a reputable dealer to help out. We used H & S Yachts who have offices close to where you live. They are good and know the business. And, finally, spend time reading through the archives on this sight. There are a lot of contributors here with a wealth of knowledge based upon experience who will be more than willing to help you. To really whet your appetite, check out my web site for the process we went through to buy our boat. Best wishes, John Richard s/v Jack's Place ~~~__/)~~~
Jon, I found the process of selecting a boat will grow in proportion to the amount of information you pick up as you begin the selection process. We originally decided a 34' boat would be perfect after seeing one in San Diego on a Harbor Cruise. Then I saw this model at the Long Beach Boat show and found it woefully small. We next upscaled to a 38' and didn't like the interior. Finally, the 41' was selected. Our reasons for it were the following: 1. Heavier and more stable when going to Catalina. 2. More tankage. 3. Longer water line equates to a faster boat. 4. Very comfortable for large groups of people that will gravitate to your new toy. 5. A more powerful motor. 6. Two heads and accomodations for two couples. My suggestion is to sit down and decide what you want to use the boat for. Don't limit yourselves at this stage. If you think there might be the most remote possibility of wanting to race, take this into consideration. Racing was not on my list when I bought the boat, but as you get familiar with being on the water, believe me, you will want to do this. Pick a reputable dealer to help out. We used H & S Yachts who have offices close to where you live. They are good and know the business. And, finally, spend time reading through the archives on this sight. There are a lot of contributors here with a wealth of knowledge based upon experience who will be more than willing to help you. To really whet your appetite, check out my web site for the process we went through to buy our boat. Best wishes, John Richard s/v Jack's Place ~~~__/)~~~
look at the 30 somethings
Without knowing your experience, your families needs and likes, available moorage ad infinitum...not to mention your bank account, I would recommend looking first at a really good 30-32 footer. My preference is the older classic full keels and not the lighter fin keeled chlorox bottles. An Alberg 30, Cape Dory 30, maybe a 28 Pearson Tritton, if it were in exceptional condition. These are small enough to handle easily, don't take a half day to get them of the buoy or dock, can even be sailed solo and all of them are 'Blue Water' capable. That last is NOT true of (I won't name them on this board I want to live heh) several of the popular racing cruisers. At any rate g'Luk and DON'T RUSH IT!!! Look at so many different boats that you almost decide to quit, then you'll spot the one YOU like and not something someone else talked you into.
Without knowing your experience, your families needs and likes, available moorage ad infinitum...not to mention your bank account, I would recommend looking first at a really good 30-32 footer. My preference is the older classic full keels and not the lighter fin keeled chlorox bottles. An Alberg 30, Cape Dory 30, maybe a 28 Pearson Tritton, if it were in exceptional condition. These are small enough to handle easily, don't take a half day to get them of the buoy or dock, can even be sailed solo and all of them are 'Blue Water' capable. That last is NOT true of (I won't name them on this board I want to live heh) several of the popular racing cruisers. At any rate g'Luk and DON'T RUSH IT!!! Look at so many different boats that you almost decide to quit, then you'll spot the one YOU like and not something someone else talked you into.
As suggested 8-9 people are going to require
that 38 to 45 foot boat. Economics and ease of handling suggest starting with a 30 to 35 ft boat for the whole family. Kinda depends on your comfort level, my Catalina 270 is great for short cruises with 1 or 2 and daysails with 4. Anymore and its too crowded for me, we plan on a larger boat in the future but gotta get a longer slip first. My boat is supposed to sleep 6, 2 in forepeak, 2 on saloon settes and 2 in aft cabin, don't you believe it. More like 2 comfortable & 3 in a pinch. I sleep in the aft cabin if the waves aren't hitting it from behind to turn it into a large drum but my wife won't. I've been on 45' boats with 3 people & everyone has their own cabin and that's comfortable. We want bigger for most of the reasons John mentioned, a 25 would be a lot like camping in a tent for a family your size, do you do that or take an RV ?
that 38 to 45 foot boat. Economics and ease of handling suggest starting with a 30 to 35 ft boat for the whole family. Kinda depends on your comfort level, my Catalina 270 is great for short cruises with 1 or 2 and daysails with 4. Anymore and its too crowded for me, we plan on a larger boat in the future but gotta get a longer slip first. My boat is supposed to sleep 6, 2 in forepeak, 2 on saloon settes and 2 in aft cabin, don't you believe it. More like 2 comfortable & 3 in a pinch. I sleep in the aft cabin if the waves aren't hitting it from behind to turn it into a large drum but my wife won't. I've been on 45' boats with 3 people & everyone has their own cabin and that's comfortable. We want bigger for most of the reasons John mentioned, a 25 would be a lot like camping in a tent for a family your size, do you do that or take an RV ?
Doing homework is fun
I would come down in between John and Didereaux in terms of size, but the looking will help you sort that out. Big questions beyond your list: How much in the budget; how skilled at repair and maintenance; and how simple you want this to be. Check out listings in yachtworld.com (see attached link) and plug in the range of lengths, dollars and years, and you'll find a world of options. You are in a perfect place to see lots of good boats, and many of them are for sale. If you have time, wait for the annual SailExpo boat show in Spring where you can see lots of new boats in one place. If you know you want to trade up in a few years you should consider newer production boats from Hunter, Catalina or Benateau. They'll have more room per foot and are considered good "in and out" boats, meaning they are easy to sell and or trade up. For your close-to-shore needs, they'll do just fine from about 32 ft up to 36. If you are handy, you will get more boat for the dollar by buying older. Takes a little longer to find the right boat, but can save thousands. A boat as you describe could cost as little as $30,000 used, or as much as $200,000 new. That's a range! I was looking for a boat similar to what you describe, and ended up with a 37 ft Hunter cutter, the Cherubini design, which I would certainly recommend. The cockpit won't hold nine adults, but the decks will. But your needs might be better met with a smaller and newer boat. If you still work fulltime (with three kids, that's a safe bet) you'll want less maintenance, or a ready checkbook for any boat. Avoid wood to varnish. Have fun looking. And more fun sailing. Sanders
I would come down in between John and Didereaux in terms of size, but the looking will help you sort that out. Big questions beyond your list: How much in the budget; how skilled at repair and maintenance; and how simple you want this to be. Check out listings in yachtworld.com (see attached link) and plug in the range of lengths, dollars and years, and you'll find a world of options. You are in a perfect place to see lots of good boats, and many of them are for sale. If you have time, wait for the annual SailExpo boat show in Spring where you can see lots of new boats in one place. If you know you want to trade up in a few years you should consider newer production boats from Hunter, Catalina or Benateau. They'll have more room per foot and are considered good "in and out" boats, meaning they are easy to sell and or trade up. For your close-to-shore needs, they'll do just fine from about 32 ft up to 36. If you are handy, you will get more boat for the dollar by buying older. Takes a little longer to find the right boat, but can save thousands. A boat as you describe could cost as little as $30,000 used, or as much as $200,000 new. That's a range! I was looking for a boat similar to what you describe, and ended up with a 37 ft Hunter cutter, the Cherubini design, which I would certainly recommend. The cockpit won't hold nine adults, but the decks will. But your needs might be better met with a smaller and newer boat. If you still work fulltime (with three kids, that's a safe bet) you'll want less maintenance, or a ready checkbook for any boat. Avoid wood to varnish. Have fun looking. And more fun sailing. Sanders
Early Welcome
Good luck with your search and good luck with your choice. I'm sure you'll get plenty ofrecommendations about which boat so I'll offer something else. Be sure you've got a place to put it. The marinas in the LA / Long beach area are pretty scarce. I know. I lived in huntington Beach and Calico Dragon was in San Diego. Enjoy whatever you choose.
Good luck with your search and good luck with your choice. I'm sure you'll get plenty ofrecommendations about which boat so I'll offer something else. Be sure you've got a place to put it. The marinas in the LA / Long beach area are pretty scarce. I know. I lived in huntington Beach and Calico Dragon was in San Diego. Enjoy whatever you choose.
sailboat
first let me suggest you slow down. how much experience do you have, and how much deep sea experience? you seem to be jumping from a 25 footer to having a dozen people on board. where will you put all these people? people always ask me how many people does my boat sleeps and i reply that it pees only one. a sailboat is not mass transportation. it needs room in the cockpit for at least one helmsman and one crewman with room to move around. very few will be comfortable below with the boat under way, so you're asking alot. my boat, a catalina 30, starts getting very small very quickly with four aboard under way. take your family, act as if you were sailing, and look at lots of boats. that's the only way. good luck, and don't leave your checkbook home.
first let me suggest you slow down. how much experience do you have, and how much deep sea experience? you seem to be jumping from a 25 footer to having a dozen people on board. where will you put all these people? people always ask me how many people does my boat sleeps and i reply that it pees only one. a sailboat is not mass transportation. it needs room in the cockpit for at least one helmsman and one crewman with room to move around. very few will be comfortable below with the boat under way, so you're asking alot. my boat, a catalina 30, starts getting very small very quickly with four aboard under way. take your family, act as if you were sailing, and look at lots of boats. that's the only way. good luck, and don't leave your checkbook home.
Thanks for the help
Yeah Im taking things slow thats why I searched for a website forum that can give good advice. I in no way plan on just jumping in with no knowledge. Long beach ports are all full and a waiting list a mile long, I can sublet in wilmington. I realize I am asking for alot of space, but I am willing to pay for it, I only was asking about the 25', because someone had it w/slip in holiday harbour for $2000.00 xlnt cond. owners son selling father passed away. I know it is small for my needs. I think you guys are right, I figured I need something at least 30' the bigger the better as long as its a good deal. I don't plan on new I would like to find a 30+ cutter type something well maintained, My experience was all as a kid regularly sailed small 14-18 foot daysailer. I dont have a set budget, If its a good deal, I know from looking around I can afford to seriously look at xlnt used 30'+, I just havnt because I dont know if its too much boat for a novice. I have extensive mechanical/ electrical experience, and I am very handy I own a construction business. I also realize boats need alot of attention and we are up to it. My boys are 11 and 12 we are all looking forward to working the boat. I got tons to still learn.
Yeah Im taking things slow thats why I searched for a website forum that can give good advice. I in no way plan on just jumping in with no knowledge. Long beach ports are all full and a waiting list a mile long, I can sublet in wilmington. I realize I am asking for alot of space, but I am willing to pay for it, I only was asking about the 25', because someone had it w/slip in holiday harbour for $2000.00 xlnt cond. owners son selling father passed away. I know it is small for my needs. I think you guys are right, I figured I need something at least 30' the bigger the better as long as its a good deal. I don't plan on new I would like to find a 30+ cutter type something well maintained, My experience was all as a kid regularly sailed small 14-18 foot daysailer. I dont have a set budget, If its a good deal, I know from looking around I can afford to seriously look at xlnt used 30'+, I just havnt because I dont know if its too much boat for a novice. I have extensive mechanical/ electrical experience, and I am very handy I own a construction business. I also realize boats need alot of attention and we are up to it. My boys are 11 and 12 we are all looking forward to working the boat. I got tons to still learn.
Don't forget to go sailing too.
That's a great way to find your comfort level. And I am so jealous! You're having too much fun!
One thing; Cutters in the 30 foot range are rare. Cutter rigs are mostly for blue water. And mostly for times that the water turns from blue to gray. (stormy) If you want to do that, great! They're taking over, 'out-there'.
That's a great way to find your comfort level. And I am so jealous! You're having too much fun!
One thing; Cutters in the 30 foot range are rare. Cutter rigs are mostly for blue water. And mostly for times that the water turns from blue to gray. (stormy) If you want to do that, great! They're taking over, 'out-there'.Consider joining one of the clubs like,
Adventura, Sailtime or Marina Sailing. All have various locations in So. Cal. ~$350 a year for family membership & $50 a month. Lots of boats to try for reduced rates & classes including certs from ASA or US Sailing.
Adventura, Sailtime or Marina Sailing. All have various locations in So. Cal. ~$350 a year for family membership & $50 a month. Lots of boats to try for reduced rates & classes including certs from ASA or US Sailing.
Keep on Reading and Looking!
Jon, I would strongly suggest that you consider chartering a few times to get the feel for what you wand and need. Hunting for the perfect boat for you is almost as much fun as sailing! Afew things to remember: 1. Initial price is almost insignificant compared to the total cost of ownership. 2. The less teak the better. Sailing is more fun than paintinng! 3. Cost of ownership is geometrically proportional to the overall length. 4. Very old is generally risky, new will be very pricy and 5-10 years old is usually a great value. 5. "Keep it simple." and easy to handle. A sloop rig is fine for all except for those leaving for Tahiti in the morning. 6. Beware of any boat with the word "custom" in its description. It usually means that not enough of them were built to get the bugs out of the manufacturing process or it is a "one off". 7. More important than "Resail Value" is whether you can sell it at any price. Production boats are almost never breathtacking but they are almost always a better investment.
Jon, I would strongly suggest that you consider chartering a few times to get the feel for what you wand and need. Hunting for the perfect boat for you is almost as much fun as sailing! Afew things to remember: 1. Initial price is almost insignificant compared to the total cost of ownership. 2. The less teak the better. Sailing is more fun than paintinng! 3. Cost of ownership is geometrically proportional to the overall length. 4. Very old is generally risky, new will be very pricy and 5-10 years old is usually a great value. 5. "Keep it simple." and easy to handle. A sloop rig is fine for all except for those leaving for Tahiti in the morning. 6. Beware of any boat with the word "custom" in its description. It usually means that not enough of them were built to get the bugs out of the manufacturing process or it is a "one off". 7. More important than "Resail Value" is whether you can sell it at any price. Production boats are almost never breathtacking but they are almost always a better investment.
Big holding tank
Hey Jon, If you plan to sail with 8-9 passengers on a 25 footer you better find one that has a holding tank for the head that is roughly 1/3 the size of the boat... Seriously, that is just way too small for that many people.
Hey Jon, If you plan to sail with 8-9 passengers on a 25 footer you better find one that has a holding tank for the head that is roughly 1/3 the size of the boat... Seriously, that is just way too small for that many people.
25 Footer
I have just restored a Hunter 25' and launched it last weekend in time for the 4th. I have a family of 4 and the boat (I love it!) is too small for us already. This size is a good starter boat for a young family with small children. I have a 5' 7" 14 year old and an eight year old. Even though I just got back into sailing, in the next few years I plan to move up to a 30'. Sounds like you need at least a 32-38 footer!
I have just restored a Hunter 25' and launched it last weekend in time for the 4th. I have a family of 4 and the boat (I love it!) is too small for us already. This size is a good starter boat for a young family with small children. I have a 5' 7" 14 year old and an eight year old. Even though I just got back into sailing, in the next few years I plan to move up to a 30'. Sounds like you need at least a 32-38 footer!
Too Small vs. Too Big
Get a boat you can "single hand." You won't know the value of this until you have to do it! I would think something around 25' - 27', the first time around.
Get a boat you can "single hand." You won't know the value of this until you have to do it! I would think something around 25' - 27', the first time around.
single handliing
I'm not so sure the size is the most important factor when talking about single handling. I single handle a 37' and the only time I needed help was the first few times of docking. What makes it easy to sail by myself is that I have all lines leading into the cockpit and I have a roller furling main and jib. It also has GPS and Radar and an auto-pilot and that helps a lot too. I personally wouldn't go up from a 37'er but I could.
I'm not so sure the size is the most important factor when talking about single handling. I single handle a 37' and the only time I needed help was the first few times of docking. What makes it easy to sail by myself is that I have all lines leading into the cockpit and I have a roller furling main and jib. It also has GPS and Radar and an auto-pilot and that helps a lot too. I personally wouldn't go up from a 37'er but I could.
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