Need Help Refitting mid-1980s GOIOT Steering System

[Doug in Lakeview]

Hi all,

The steering wheel on our 1984 Beneteau First 38 is a bit loose. Basically it wobbles a bit. I was not sure if the connection between the shaft and the wheel was loose or if the shaft was loose within the binnacle. Luckily, I was able to remove the BEN (French manufacturer “Bianchetti Electronique Nautique”) Marco Polo Compass and then gain access to the steering mechanism at the top of the binnacle. Everything within the binnacle is very tight and in good shape. The problem is at the aft end of the shaft where the wheel is attached. The connection is a splined shaft (1” OD with 18 splines) where the vintage GOIOT wheel attaches to the aft end of the shaft. After 29+ years of service the splines are worn and the wheel wobbles.

This design & method of connection seems quite robust but is drastically different than the current connections use by GOIOT, EDSON, etc. I am trying to contact GOIOT’s USA rep for assistance and spare parts as I am hoping that I can buy a new shaft & wheel.

Since we will probably have to replace the wheel, we are considering buying GOIOT’s Steer 'n Go Wheel or Lewmar's Folding Wheel. Of course, it will have to match up with the splined shaft on the binnacle.

If we cannot buy a shaft from GOIOT, then we will be considering having a local machine shop fabricate a new shaft – with the aft end (without splines) as needed for the current generation of wheels.

Has anyone else been down this path?



Pics attached.

Much thanks,

Doug in Lakeview
1984 Beneteau First 38 – Hull #178
Belmont Harbor – Chicago

 

[DougM]

I haven't had to do anything like that. I would just like to point out that if you are considering any machine work, that splined shaft is more than likely metric. The shaf is probably 25mm and the spline dimensions may not be the same as with English dimensioning.

 

[CCHer]

Goiot went bankrupt or into reorganization a couple of years ago and not sure that they've restarted up production of steering systems again. Machining a new shaft may be the only option. I am lucky enough to have a Goiot pedestal and had the brake clutch fail last year. Beneteau USA furnished the part which the dealer installed. The boat is only two years old.

 

[Doug in Lakeview]

Hi DougM,

Yes, I fully agree that all of the parts are probably metric – thus 25 mm OD shaft as you mentioned with spline pattern different from if it was Imperial unit design.

Once I get a response from GOIOT’s USA representative as to if they can provide spare parts, I am sure I will need to accurately measure, with a caliper, the shaft OD of both the splined portion & the smooth portion, length of each section, etc. so that GOIOT can determine which version/model I have installed.

If I cannot get replacement parts from GOIOT, I am hoping that a local machine shop can fabricate a replacement from the original part. At that point I will just hand over the old part & a new wheel to the shop so that they produce a new shaft.

One of my colleagues is French and we (i.e., my colleague) may try to contact GOIOT in France if the USA rep is unable to assist.


Much thanks,

Doug in Lakeview
1984 Beneteau First 38 – Hull #178
Belmont Harbor – Chicago

 

[Doug in Lakeview]

Hi all,

Attached is a mark-up of one of GOIOT's current steering systems to show what I have on my 1980’s vintage steering system. 29 years ago both the chain sprocket and the wheel hub were attached to a shaft which was splined in the areas where the 2 parts were connected. A shaft pin was then inserted to prevent movement fore & aft.

Per Businessweek GOIOT is still in business with their headquarters at:

GOIOT Systems
3, Rue du Chêne Lassé
Saint-Herblain, 44814
France
Phone: 33 2 40 92 29 30
Fax: 33 2 40 92 29 40
www.goiot-systems.com

Doug in Lakeview
1984 Beneteau First 38 – Hull #178
Belmont Harbor – Chicago

 

[BF38]

Doug,
I have a 1984 First 38 with the same Goiot pedestal. I have not taken it apart yet, but plan too because it squeaks terribly. Which plane is the wheel loose on the splines? i.e. does the top of the wheel move fore and aft, or is it slop when you are turning the boat...you could always epoxy the wheel onto the spline, but I know everyone will shreik no no. How about jamming a couple of feeler gauge blades into the works and screw it back on. If you have some suggestions on how to stop the squeak let me know.

 

[Doug in Lakeview]

Hi BF38,

If you consider the plane of the wheel itself (starting from hub and then radiating out via the spokes to the wheel) it is this plane which wobbles. So, if you grab the top of the wheel and either push forward or pull backwards there is some movement. If you push forward at the top of the wheel, the bottom of the wheel moves aft. If you pull backwards at the top of the wheel, the bottom of the wheel moves forward. No real play forward and aft for the shaft itself. Kind of like the rings of Saturn “wobbling”.

We have had the boat for only 2 seasons. I am guessing that the previous owners leaned fore & aft on the wheel and slowly the ribs on the splined male shaft and/or the splined female hub became worn. The wheel is still firmly attached but fellow sailors who take a spin at the wheel always comment on the looseness & wobble.

I have taken apart the binnacle and have checked the chain sprocket and the plastic shims/bearings for the shaft are nice & tight.

So, yes I could (a) fill the “gap” with epoxy but that would not allow me to remove the wheel when we are on the hard all winter and making repairs, or (b) insert some kind of thin metal shims (e.g., feeler gauge blades) into the splined section to take up slop. Good suggestions.

Yeah – purists would not like the epoxy but that is probably the best solution if you never intend to take the wheel off.

I am thinking that the best solution may be to take off the wheel, remove the shaft, and then see if a machine shop can fabricate a new shaft. At that time I should also have them fabricate the end without splines and instead, machine it to accept a new wheel. New wheels do not use splines. This would allow me to purchase a new wheel from GOIOT, EDSON, LEWMAR, etc.

I may reconsider epoxy after I get some cost estimates.

 

[flpplfflp]

Removal of compass

Hello Doug

I have a Kirie Feeling 1350 (1986) with a Goiot steering pedestal and a marco Polo compass. How did you dismantle the compass from the pedestal?

I hope you will remember and give me some advice.

Best/Flemming

Hi BF38,

If you consider the plane of the wheel itself (starting from hub and then radiating out via the spokes to the wheel) it is this plane which wobbles. So, if you grab the top of the wheel and either push forward or pull backwards there is some movement. If you push forward at the top of the wheel, the bottom of the wheel moves aft. If you pull backwards at the top of the wheel, the bottom of the wheel moves forward. No real play forward and aft for the shaft itself. Kind of like the rings of Saturn “wobbling”.

We have had the boat for only 2 seasons. I am guessing that the previous owners leaned fore & aft on the wheel and slowly the ribs on the splined male shaft and/or the splined female hub became worn. The wheel is still firmly attached but fellow sailors who take a spin at the wheel always comment on the looseness & wobble.

I have taken apart the binnacle and have checked the chain sprocket and the plastic shims/bearings for the shaft are nice & tight.

So, yes I could (a) fill the “gap” with epoxy but that would not allow me to remove the wheel when we are on the hard all winter and making repairs, or (b) insert some kind of thin metal shims (e.g., feeler gauge blades) into the splined section to take up slop. Good suggestions.

Yeah – purists would not like the epoxy but that is probably the best solution if you never intend to take the wheel off.

I am thinking that the best solution may be to take off the wheel, remove the shaft, and then see if a machine shop can fabricate a new shaft. At that time I should also have them fabricate the end without splines and instead, machine it to accept a new wheel. New wheels do not use splines. This would allow me to purchase a new wheel from GOIOT, EDSON, LEWMAR, etc.

I may reconsider epoxy after I get some cost estimates.

 

[Doug in Lakeview]

Hi Flemming,

We completely took apart the top of the binnacle, the internals, and the pedestal guard over the 2014/2015 winter. From the prior pics (posted 23 Sept 2014) you can see that we removed the BEN (French manufacturer “Bianchetti Electronique Nautique”) Marco Polo Compass. To get to the point shown in the photo, if I recall correctly, we removed 4 or screws at the top of the compass (on the black plastic ring at the top) and also removed 4 or so screws at the base of the white cylindrical portion of the compass. There were also some screws at the base of the white cylindrical portion which connect to the base of the compass for calibration. I will be at the boat later this week and will get some photos.

 

[flpplfflp]

Hi Doug

Super - it's very kind of you! I am looking forward to be hearing from you. I feared, that the parts were glued together.

 

[Doug in Lakeview]

BEN Marco Polo Compass Removal from GOIOT Binnacle


Hi flpplfflp,

Removing the BEN (French manufacturer “Bianchetti ElectroniqueNautique”) Marco Polo Compass from the GOIOT binnacle was relatively easy sinceno adhesive had been used when it was installed 30 years ago. All of screws are stainless steel with littleto no corrosion. Please refer to theattached pics and view in order – 01 through 13. We made no adjustments of the calibrationscrews.

Pic 01: Removal of tworound knurled brass screws at the each side of the lamp cover is first step.

Pic 02: Two round knurledbrass screws and lamp cover removed exposing 12 total screw heads.

Pic 03: Removal of screwsat 10 & 2 o’clock position is second step to separate black plastic compassfrom white plastic base. Remaining 10 screwsdo NOT need to be removed. At this pointgently pry apart the black compass from the white base.

Pic 04: Compass removed.

Pic 05: Top view of whitebase.

Pic 06: Aft view ofwhite base with opening for compass calibration screw shown.

Pic 07: Starboard viewof white base with opening for compass calibration screw shown.

Pic 08: Forward view ofwhite base with opening for compass calibration screw shown.

Pic 09: Port view of whitebase with opening for compass calibration screw shown.

Pic 10: Close-up view(from top) of compass calibration system.

Pic 11: Bottom view ofwhite base.

Pic 12: Rubber diaphragmwhich is positioned under white base.

Pic 13: Top view of GOIOTbinnacle showing sprocket and chain. Therubber diaphragm is positioned above this ring and prevents water from makingits way to the internals of the binnacle.

 

[flpplfflp]

This is very helpful

Hello Doug

I am very grateful.

It is very nice of you to spend so much time and make a so thorough an instruction to me. I now am really well prepared to separate my compass.

I will at the same time lubricate the bearings in the steering column. A friend of mine works at B & O factory here in Struer has promised me the name of something special suitable for nylon / Delrin bearings. No more creaking.

Thank you again for your time and kindness.

Best/Flemming/Fleur de Mer

 

[Jackdaw]

Doug,

You may have thought of this, but its likely that 50% of the play is on the female slide of the spline; the wheel. If that's the case swapping out the shaft removes only half of the play.

 

[flpplfflp]

Hello Doug

I don't know if it's any help for you.

The lubricant for the nylon bearings: The name of the product is Barrierta.
It is available both as a relatively thin oil as you need first, then you must use Barietta as pasta.

Best/Flemming

 

[redhead78]

Hey Doug, after reading this post and thinking about your problem, I think your fisrt try should be the shim approach, and feeler guage blades sounds like a good try. Shims are used everywhere, as a carpenter I use them quite frequently, with lots of sucess. Just my 2 cents good luck with the fix mate... Red

 

[capo]

Hello Doug,
We have a Beneteau First 38 with the similiar movement in the steering wheel. I'm just curious what you decided to do at the end.

 

[Doug in Lakeview]

Hi Capo,

To date we have done nothing. We had all of the original GOIOT steering mechanism checked and no dangerous faults were found. Yes, the wheel still wobbles a bit since the spline is worn.

I talked to the VP of EDSON Marine at the Chicago Strictly Sail Boat Show in January and he said that they could custom fabricate a new shaft for me next winter. Forward end of the shaft would match the existing GOIOT steering system in the pedestal and aft end of the shaft would match a new 40" wheel from EDSON (which does not use splines).

I see no reason to change out the pedestal, binnacle, etc. The GOIOT system is heavy duty - cast aluminum and firmly mounted to the cockpit sole.

It is on our "to-do" list at the end of the 2016 sailing season.

 

[Dalliance]

As Jackdaw pointed out, to eliminate all the wobble, you'll need to replace or machine the female spline insert in the wheel as well as the shaft. I doubt you need buy a new wheel. A couple years ago when I needed to replace a bronze through-hull shaft log that is no longer made, I used a local machinist who works out of Canal Street Marina. He got the job done quickly and at a reasonable price. This looks like a job he could do for way less than the cost of a new wheel. Contact Rich at Archer Marine, 312-925-1585.

 

[Doug in Lakeview]

Hi Dalliance,

But I kinda want a new wheel..... The original wheel has been sloppily repaired by prior owner. Ugly welding of wheel spokes to hub. Don't tell my partner that I don't need a new wheel.

 

[Dalliance]

LOL. Rich might be able to clean up those sloppy welds too, but if a new wheel is what you want....