As 34 owners know, or will soon deduce, the hull liner gives the false impression of being the bilge,which I will refer to here as the "false bilge", when the real hull bilge is below the liner. Has anyone drilled thru the liner bilge bottom, then dried and filled the real bilge liner? What filler? My sense is that I need to also then add weep holes to the lowest part of the sides of the false bilge. Then my bilge pump would actually drain the bottom of the boat (except for the liner pans, which also hold water).
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Neil
Did it
Did this a couple of years ago to help rid boat of stagnant water smell. Took my handy-dandy Dremel with a rotary saw blade and slowly, oh ever so slowly, enlarged the holes until they were even with the "real bilge". ( on one side it was about 1/2 inch) Went around on all sides. It helps if you put a light underneath,which can be put in through the hole under the table support.
Did this a couple of years ago to help rid boat of stagnant water smell. Took my handy-dandy Dremel with a rotary saw blade and slowly, oh ever so slowly, enlarged the holes until they were even with the "real bilge". ( on one side it was about 1/2 inch) Went around on all sides. It helps if you put a light underneath,which can be put in through the hole under the table support.
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Jim Oursler
Neil..question on bilge
Thanks for your reply. So you put the holes lower... I am still confused as it would seem that we want to either elevate the real bilge, or drop the false bilge so that the bilge pump and switch sits in the lowest area. Or, did you go back and use a filler to elevate the base of the real bilge?
Thanks for your reply. So you put the holes lower... I am still confused as it would seem that we want to either elevate the real bilge, or drop the false bilge so that the bilge pump and switch sits in the lowest area. Or, did you go back and use a filler to elevate the base of the real bilge?
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John Miller
Have the same problem
with my 1985 H34. This is the 5th or 6th thread on this subject in the last 6 months. When I pulled the float switch and the bilge pump on one of the few warm days in February. Water started to seep up from the screw holes in the bottom of the bilge. I probed the space with a dental pick and found a hairline space that exists between the bilge we see and the hull of the boat. Closer investigation finds that after the pan was installed, the workers draped woven fiberglass cloth over the top edge of the flange of the pan and down into the bilge part of the hull. This creates the false bilge mentioned by Jim. On my boat the quality of the work was less than professional as water seeps around the outside of this glass and works its way up through the screw holes. Moisture also seeps through folds in the cloth whre there is insufficent resin. And the annual freezing and thawing of moisture in this false bilge space only makes matters worse. The second problem is this added cloth prevents moisture that is under the pan from freely flowing into the bilge. The addition of new limber holes has greatly aided the flow into the bilge. I got a cup or more of water when I cut my first one. I agree with Neil that cutting holes on all sides is one fix. The real question is whether to completely cut out this added glass cloth and do a better job of fairing and sealing the bilge. This is a major undertaking. In order to get to this area you must pull the flooring. To do that you must pull the three lockers in the main cabin along with the holding tank, hot water heater and fresh water tank plus all the hoses and connections for these tanks. It also looks like you have to take a large part of the Galley cabinet work apart along with the sink and hoses. In short looks like a lot of work. For me at this time I will have to settle for the limber holes I added to drain moisture from under the pan into the bilge.
with my 1985 H34. This is the 5th or 6th thread on this subject in the last 6 months. When I pulled the float switch and the bilge pump on one of the few warm days in February. Water started to seep up from the screw holes in the bottom of the bilge. I probed the space with a dental pick and found a hairline space that exists between the bilge we see and the hull of the boat. Closer investigation finds that after the pan was installed, the workers draped woven fiberglass cloth over the top edge of the flange of the pan and down into the bilge part of the hull. This creates the false bilge mentioned by Jim. On my boat the quality of the work was less than professional as water seeps around the outside of this glass and works its way up through the screw holes. Moisture also seeps through folds in the cloth whre there is insufficent resin. And the annual freezing and thawing of moisture in this false bilge space only makes matters worse. The second problem is this added cloth prevents moisture that is under the pan from freely flowing into the bilge. The addition of new limber holes has greatly aided the flow into the bilge. I got a cup or more of water when I cut my first one. I agree with Neil that cutting holes on all sides is one fix. The real question is whether to completely cut out this added glass cloth and do a better job of fairing and sealing the bilge. This is a major undertaking. In order to get to this area you must pull the flooring. To do that you must pull the three lockers in the main cabin along with the holding tank, hot water heater and fresh water tank plus all the hoses and connections for these tanks. It also looks like you have to take a large part of the Galley cabinet work apart along with the sink and hoses. In short looks like a lot of work. For me at this time I will have to settle for the limber holes I added to drain moisture from under the pan into the bilge.
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Neil
bilge bottom
I didn't go under the exposed "bilge" area. (where the pump & switch are mounted) When I removed a rusted screw that was securing the bilge pump, it looked like the bottom was solid. My enlarging was done along the sides of the bilge opening, where there is about 1/2" to 1" of space between the inner liner and the exterior hull, that collects the water coming from the grid. The holes that were drilled by Hunter (I assume) were drilled too high to let the water drain into the area where the bilge pump is.
I didn't go under the exposed "bilge" area. (where the pump & switch are mounted) When I removed a rusted screw that was securing the bilge pump, it looked like the bottom was solid. My enlarging was done along the sides of the bilge opening, where there is about 1/2" to 1" of space between the inner liner and the exterior hull, that collects the water coming from the grid. The holes that were drilled by Hunter (I assume) were drilled too high to let the water drain into the area where the bilge pump is.
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Jim Oursler
final story on the bilge/sump from hunter
I spoke yesterday with Greg Emerson at Hunter.. quite helpful.. In the early days, the H34 liner had a full sump pan. The install process was to put polyester resin on the hull, drop the liner in, and vacuum bag it all until cured. So you had a false sump over the hull sump. And, the thought was that there were no voids between liner and hull... mistaken thought in a few cases, but not always. Later, Hunter did the same, but cut out the false sump area and went back with 2415 rovemat that tied liner to the true hull sump.Greq suggested carefully cutting out the false sump and installing 2415, approximately 24 ounce mat with 1.5 ounce cloth, 4 layers of each to bond liner to sump in the sump area. As for myself, first I'm going to try a simpler approach.. drill a couple of holes in the false sump, dry with cloth and acetone, fill with urethane foam, and continue on with life... If that doesn't work, I will cut out the liner false sump.
I spoke yesterday with Greg Emerson at Hunter.. quite helpful.. In the early days, the H34 liner had a full sump pan. The install process was to put polyester resin on the hull, drop the liner in, and vacuum bag it all until cured. So you had a false sump over the hull sump. And, the thought was that there were no voids between liner and hull... mistaken thought in a few cases, but not always. Later, Hunter did the same, but cut out the false sump area and went back with 2415 rovemat that tied liner to the true hull sump.Greq suggested carefully cutting out the false sump and installing 2415, approximately 24 ounce mat with 1.5 ounce cloth, 4 layers of each to bond liner to sump in the sump area. As for myself, first I'm going to try a simpler approach.. drill a couple of holes in the false sump, dry with cloth and acetone, fill with urethane foam, and continue on with life... If that doesn't work, I will cut out the liner false sump.
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Linda
Similar thing in the H37?
I suspect that the same issue applies to the Hunter Legend 37. I have been trying to work out where some seepage into the bilge has been coming from, and noticed hairline cracks in what I thought was the bottom of the bilge. However after spending time pouring water down the drainage holes in other parts of the boat to see where the water entered the bilge, and sticking my fingers into the holes leading into the bilge, I discovered that there is a space in there that is lower than the "bilge". I have also noticed water welling / seeping through these hairline cracks. Has anyone else experienced this in a H37? We are thinking about putting some small holes to allow the water to drain into the bilge. We weren't sure whether this was water that had seeped into the space from the bilge due to the leaking keel bolts that we had repaired, (see other post for resolution) or if it was coming from somewhere else - this thread confims our suspicions that there was spaces in there where water could collect. Cheers, Linda
I suspect that the same issue applies to the Hunter Legend 37. I have been trying to work out where some seepage into the bilge has been coming from, and noticed hairline cracks in what I thought was the bottom of the bilge. However after spending time pouring water down the drainage holes in other parts of the boat to see where the water entered the bilge, and sticking my fingers into the holes leading into the bilge, I discovered that there is a space in there that is lower than the "bilge". I have also noticed water welling / seeping through these hairline cracks. Has anyone else experienced this in a H37? We are thinking about putting some small holes to allow the water to drain into the bilge. We weren't sure whether this was water that had seeped into the space from the bilge due to the leaking keel bolts that we had repaired, (see other post for resolution) or if it was coming from somewhere else - this thread confims our suspicions that there was spaces in there where water could collect. Cheers, Linda
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Jim Oursler
For H37 sump/liner construction contact factory
Hello, Their address is customerservice@huntermarine.com Give them your model, year and hull number and they can get you an overnite response. Greg Emerson was quite helpful, but he may not be the 37 expert. He knew in detail on my 34. Good look down under. Jim
Hello, Their address is customerservice@huntermarine.com Give them your model, year and hull number and they can get you an overnite response. Greg Emerson was quite helpful, but he may not be the 37 expert. He knew in detail on my 34. Good look down under. Jim
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Linda
Thanks
We contacted Greg, he is very helpful, he cautioned us about putting holes in it in case we went through the hull!! (we weren't going to be quite that gung-ho!!). We decided to wait and see what happened, and the water has stopped leaking, so we will not do anything!! (if it ain't broke don't fix it is our motto!!) Cheers, Linda
We contacted Greg, he is very helpful, he cautioned us about putting holes in it in case we went through the hull!! (we weren't going to be quite that gung-ho!!). We decided to wait and see what happened, and the water has stopped leaking, so we will not do anything!! (if it ain't broke don't fix it is our motto!!) Cheers, Linda
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Scott
Still don't have all the answers
I queried the group here last year on the issue of water seeping up from stress cracks and the screw holes for the pump switch on my 85 H34. I presumed after a lot of deduction that there was a void beneath the allegedely false bilge and above the real hull interior. Last weekend with the boat on the cradle, I did some exploratory surgery with my dremel tool. I still don't know what lies beneath, but I do have more facts to share: The surface of the allegedely false bilge is about 1/2" of solid fiberglass, then there is a void filled with waterand a piece of 1/2" plywood of some kind. beneath the plywood is...some form of bare metal plate-possibly the actual keel, though it is not rusted as one would expect if a bare iron keel had been bathed for months/years in water. I'm still puzzled as to whether this is some kind of plate that sandwiches the actual hull and keel or the keel itself. It it is the keel, then the hull is incredibly thin here, and any screws holding the bilge pump/switch would almost certainly penetrate the hull. Also, I can't understand the void and the use of plywood. The exterior hull shows a nice tight fit around the canoe body at the keel/hull joint. No seeping water here...and no edge of the plywood which seemed to be floating loose in the void by the way. Naturally, if water is trapped in this void and freezes it will damage the bilge structure above it-hence the stress cracks... So, I don't think we have the full answer yet, else Mr. Emerson would have mentioned more about the void and the plywood right? Unless I can find some better answers, my plan is to fill the screw holes with epoxy, and remat/glass the inside of the false bilge, and find some alternative to screwing anything into the thin base which may in fact be the real bilge base. No clue how I could ever dry this out before sealing it off since there seems to be no large recesses for air circulation to dry it. Next winter it will just freeze and expand again causing more damage. I've heard that one should avoid dropping the keel on these boats "at all costs"... I'd love to hear from someone who actually had something to do with building this vintage hull, or someone who has seen a full section perhaps as a result of a complete rebuild, etc.
I queried the group here last year on the issue of water seeping up from stress cracks and the screw holes for the pump switch on my 85 H34. I presumed after a lot of deduction that there was a void beneath the allegedely false bilge and above the real hull interior. Last weekend with the boat on the cradle, I did some exploratory surgery with my dremel tool. I still don't know what lies beneath, but I do have more facts to share: The surface of the allegedely false bilge is about 1/2" of solid fiberglass, then there is a void filled with waterand a piece of 1/2" plywood of some kind. beneath the plywood is...some form of bare metal plate-possibly the actual keel, though it is not rusted as one would expect if a bare iron keel had been bathed for months/years in water. I'm still puzzled as to whether this is some kind of plate that sandwiches the actual hull and keel or the keel itself. It it is the keel, then the hull is incredibly thin here, and any screws holding the bilge pump/switch would almost certainly penetrate the hull. Also, I can't understand the void and the use of plywood. The exterior hull shows a nice tight fit around the canoe body at the keel/hull joint. No seeping water here...and no edge of the plywood which seemed to be floating loose in the void by the way. Naturally, if water is trapped in this void and freezes it will damage the bilge structure above it-hence the stress cracks... So, I don't think we have the full answer yet, else Mr. Emerson would have mentioned more about the void and the plywood right? Unless I can find some better answers, my plan is to fill the screw holes with epoxy, and remat/glass the inside of the false bilge, and find some alternative to screwing anything into the thin base which may in fact be the real bilge base. No clue how I could ever dry this out before sealing it off since there seems to be no large recesses for air circulation to dry it. Next winter it will just freeze and expand again causing more damage. I've heard that one should avoid dropping the keel on these boats "at all costs"... I'd love to hear from someone who actually had something to do with building this vintage hull, or someone who has seen a full section perhaps as a result of a complete rebuild, etc.
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