Need Crew for mid-april trip to turks & caicos

[Tim]

Fun trip not payed delivery.

Bob was very straight forward in his description, "A Trip", "Fun Cruise", "Shared Expense".  Many people pay alot of money to charter a Moorings boat. Bob is merely offering a fun cruise, which would amount to far less than a Charter. I'm sure there are Guys out there that have wives who would say "Sounds Great, Go", as long as she doesn't have to be part of it. The reward or Payoff here is the adventure and the opportunity to enjoy the company of other sailors. Crew that only wants to get paid, should put together a sailing resume and look for those kind of jobs. But having been a delivery captain for years, I never hired a delivery crew that wasn't experienced and had the references to prove it. This trip could certainly provide some of that experience to those who may want to do "paid" deliveries in the future.

 

[Franklin]

Nope Tim, Droopy got it covered

Even an inexperienced crew shouldn't have to pay anything to get there. An experienced crew should be paid.Like I said, there is a difference between crew and partner. Crew takes orders and does the dirty work. Partner shares everything including responsibility. Sounds like Bob is looking for a partner, not crew.I also have to admit that I misunderstood his initual posting. Because he was asking for crew, I assumed the "shared expense" was directed to him and his friend, not for the crew too, because crew do not pay for things and they are not held responsible. Good thing too, because when you are dealing with a total stranger, how can you depend on him to be responsible and hold up his end of the deal? With a crew only supplying labor, that's easy to hold them up to it.Now as an "observation", I'd say Tim, you are not a delivery captain because you would know all this if you were.

 

[CalebD]

There seem to be a few sea lawyers here

who would probably be bad candidates for Bob's trip offer. Read "Two years before the mast" by Richard Dana to learn about early codifications of maritime law. A "sea lawyer" was a foredeck hand (read underpaid crew) who thought he knew all the rules and would tell his superiours that they (usually) could not do such and such a task.Granted, maritime law is much more fairly laid out these days then in Richard Dana's time, but it is convoluted as much of lawyering can be. The Droopy's in this discussion may have a point concerning the finer points of maritime law. As most of you know, it is illegal to charge people coming on your boat a fee unless you have a 6-pack (OUPV) license or better. This can mean that if you invite someone out for a sail and they bring the sandwiches or beer that you are breaking the law. We all know that this regulation is largely ignored and unenforced. Bob's kind offer seems fair enough and certainly seems genuine as he posted his phone #. In Richard Dana's time though, offers like this could be the bait for a lifetime of servitude spent at sea (eg., slavery). I doubt this is the case with Bob's offer and if you are interested, a phone call only a few minutes long can let you (and Bob) find out if you might be compatible shipmates. That seems sincere enough.Sailing is fun as long as the rigging isn't totally destroyed and nobody is injured or worse. That is when the intricacies of maritime law can unfold to yield less than pleasant outcomes (read lawsuits). Having said that, I wish him a safe passage.

 

[Tim]

Crew

Actually, Bob's term "Crew" is technically correct, as a boat can only have one "Skipper", hence a "Partnership" in that respect cannot work.  According to Oxford American Dictionary, Crew is defined as, 1. the people working a ship or aircraft, 2. a group of people working together. Nowhere in the definition is "For Pay or Reward" mentioned. Many people go as crew on boats without any request or expectation for renumeration or reward other than experience, that is their choice. So, in closing, it would be up to Bob and his "crew" to work out any details in regards to how the venture will work, and not up to us "the peanut gallery" to tell him how to run his ship.Happy Holidays to all! and Good Luck to Bob and his "CREW"

 

[Richard19068]

expense sharing

At the risk of hijacking this thread, in response to the comment in reply #22 from Caleb D: "As most of you know, it is illegal to charge people coming on your boat a fee unless you have a 6-pack (OUPV) license or better. This can mean that if you invite someone out for a sail and they bring the sandwiches or beer that you are breaking the law."I believe this is not the case and the rules have been clarified to permit voluntary expense sharing. This excerpt is from boatsafe.com"In years past there was some confusion as to what was specifically meant by 'passenger for hire'. However, that has now been clearly defined by the clarification of the rules below.SEC. 506. PASSENGER FOR HIRE. Section 2101 of title 46, United States Code, is to read as follows: "(21a) 'passenger for hire' means a passenger for whom consideration is contributed as a condition of carriage on the vessel, whether directly or indirectly flowing to the owner, charterer, operator, agent, or any other person having an interest in the vessel.". DESCRIPTION - The determination of what constitutes the carriage of a "passenger for hire" must be made on a case by case basis. This determination is dependent upon the actual operation of a vessel and the flow of consideration as determined by the facts of each case. In general, there needs to be some form of tangible consideration or promise of performance being passed for a "passenger for hire" situation to exist. SEC. 507. CONSIDERATION. Section 2101 of title 46, United States Code, is amended to read as follows: "(5a) 'consideration' means an economic benefit, inducement, right, or profit including pecuniary payment accruing to an individual, person, or entity, but not including a voluntary sharing of the actual expenses of the voyage, by monetary contribution or donation of fuel, food, beverage, or other supplies.". Additionally, employees or business clients that have not contributed for their carriage, and are carried for morale or entertainment purposes is not included as exchange of consideration. Bottom line: if you are a recreational boater you are allowed to share expenses for a day on the water."

 

[Joe]

You guys are unbelievable.....

A generous offer by a boat owner to get some folks together to go cruising is all this is. Franklin, obviously you don't have any clue that generating a crew is very common in the sailing community. I have crewed on many boats at their skipper's invitation and never expected to be paid. In addition, I always offered to share in the food and fuel expenses and never asked to be an equal "partner". (A partnership would indicate that you shared ownership in the boat btw.) For longer, more difficult cruises or races, the skipper will often ask for references regarding sailing ability, cooking skills, compatibility, etc. Franklin, you are very naive in this regard. Out here on the west coast it is very common to post requests for crew on a list at local yacht clubs or regional publications such as "Santana". It's a great way for sailors without boats, sailors looking to buy boats, out of area sailors or new sailors to get more experience and widen their network of sailing friends. What surprises me is that you have been extolling your intended 5 year circumavigation this past year and have completely missed the point of Bob's offer. tsk, tsk.Whether you share expenses, get paid, or simply ride for free.... there is always only one skipper. A sailing crew is NOT a democracy.

 

[CalebD]

Thanks for the clarification Richard

When I was a kid in the 60's I went out on a family friends motorboat and he would not let us bring any food or beverages as he did not want to give the harbor patrol any reason to think that he was for hire. Not being a lawyer or sea-lawyer, I think of the laws as static but they are not. There have been a lot of revisions in the CG regulations (COLREGS) that I am now aware of, specifically regarding watchkeeping and since most commercial vessels no longer carry a radio officer, all officers must have the CG amendment to operate the radios, to mention a few. Richard - do you have any CG licenses? I was thinking of doing the 6-pack course and/or the launch operator's (OUPV) license to help out at my club.

 

[Alan]

goddamn!!

You guys will argue over just about anything.bob is looking for a shared expense cruise. What is so hard to understand?? He's not looking to rewrite naval law or sell his boat. It's a cruise!!!Sheesh! no wonder there are wars!!!

 

[Ross]

Alan, Don't Sign-up! I don't think you will be

happy.

 

[Franklin]

Funny

It's one thing to pay for your own way, pay for your own food, but pay for the boat too. You must be pretty desperate to pay for a boat with a bunch of strangers. If I wanted to go cruising away from home so bad and had the money to spend, I'd get my own set of friends (people I trust) not go with a bunch of strangers on a boat they pick, place they pick, and time they pick.This is not the normal case Joe. Most people are asking for crew because they need help with handling the boat, not help to save dollars on a fun cruise.

 

[r.w.landau]

Dudes, 29 responses and none of them from Bob...

....Take it or what it is.r.w.landau

 

[Joe]

First of all....

I believe he left his phone number for anyone interested. I do not think Bob was interested in participating in such an absurd discussion. Franklin, if you have questions about Bob's integrity or intentions why don't you give him a call and discuss it with him personally rather than trash the guy behind the anonymity of the internet. Another thing, I don't believe he asked anyone to help pay for his boat. He simply suggested that some of the expenses were to be shared. He was not specific, but that usually means food and maybe fuel and mooring fees. I don't think that's unreasonable, but I would certainly be clear on that before I agreed. In any event, it doesn't sound like he's trying to make money, just cover the added expenses. I got hooked up with a couple of guys through this forum to go cruising. One I had to cancel at the last minute, but the other was a great time. Finally, I don't think Bob will have any trouble filling up his boat with compatible people.

 

[Tom Brown]

Franklin

You immediately posted an obnoxious response to Bob's invitation and several people took you to task for it. Now it seems like you realize your post was rude and you are trying to cover your a**. Is this your version of "SPIN"?Have you ever heard the saying" Better to keep you mouth shut and have people think you're an idiot than to open it and remove all doubt"? If the shoe fits, wear it.Bob, it's a pretty safe bet that Franklin won't be signing up for this trip so I am still interested. I will call you in a week or two.Toms/v Orion's Child

 

[wrenchs wench]

interested

geez when i first read bobs invitation i was very interested but after reading all these posts u guys scare me ive recently retired from dept of corrections in ny and own a 22 oday for only 3 yrs now im not the most experienced sailor but this sounded like a great learning experience and i wouldnt mind sharing any expenses incurred i guess i should call bob and not pay any attention to these post