To start, I know NOTHING about autopilots, never used one. My 84 H31 came with an ST4000 autohelm system, less the steering wheel ring and driving motor. The instrument's digital head is mounted to the binnacle, and there is a metal stud mounted to the binnacle which looks as if it held something related to the autopilot. There is another digital head mounted low in the starboard cockpit which gives an incorrect compass reading when on. There is a device mounted in the starboard lazerette which I have deduced to be the compass. It has a black rounded cover and has many wires attached. The original installer made many handwritten notes beside this device identifying each wire and color. Now.....for the past year, I have kept an eye peeled for a wheel ring and drive motor, to no avail. The local chandlery says Autohelm wants almost as much for these items as a complete system. Questions: Anybody know a source for purchasing these items used? I don't even know if the heads work properly....should I send these to Autohelm to be checked out and repaired if necessary. Troubleshooting possible? Who could possibly service them locally? Should I toss the whole thing and buy new? No....please no Out in a real blow the other day singlehanded, I have moved this project to the front of the line. Help is appreciated......Gary
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Love my Simrad.
It sounds like it will be too expensive and time-consuming to resurrect the A4000. The advantages of a new Simrad are: no separate compass(fluxgate) to install, more power, and you can still easily remove the wheel. Some think it is a disadvantage that there is no display. My boat is over 18000# and the Simrad has held course in terrible Lake Erie conditions. This when fellow sailors had to turn off their A4000s.
It sounds like it will be too expensive and time-consuming to resurrect the A4000. The advantages of a new Simrad are: no separate compass(fluxgate) to install, more power, and you can still easily remove the wheel. Some think it is a disadvantage that there is no display. My boat is over 18000# and the Simrad has held course in terrible Lake Erie conditions. This when fellow sailors had to turn off their A4000s.
Basic st4000 intro........
Gary: There is a hole in the "wheel ring" that the metal stud fits into. It is what keeps a portion of the ring from moving. The item you described as the compass is actually the compass. A fluxgate compass. If you examine the back of the digital head, you will see color coded terminals for the wires comming from the compass. The wheel ring will have it's own set of wires. Sounds as if you have 2 heads, but don't know why you would have 2 in such close proximity. The second head might better serve you in the area of the nav station. You may be able to get the head(s) to read the correct heading by calibrating them. You need to press a few of the buttons and steer in a few large circles to do this. I believe Raymarine has online manuals that will tell you which buttons to push. Even when calibrated, the heads may not match your compass because of deviation, variation and which direction you are headed in, but it should be close. Check ebay for a complete set of components. I would think that might be a better route than trying to find seperate components, or spending $ for a brand new unit. Good luck......Jeff
Gary: There is a hole in the "wheel ring" that the metal stud fits into. It is what keeps a portion of the ring from moving. The item you described as the compass is actually the compass. A fluxgate compass. If you examine the back of the digital head, you will see color coded terminals for the wires comming from the compass. The wheel ring will have it's own set of wires. Sounds as if you have 2 heads, but don't know why you would have 2 in such close proximity. The second head might better serve you in the area of the nav station. You may be able to get the head(s) to read the correct heading by calibrating them. You need to press a few of the buttons and steer in a few large circles to do this. I believe Raymarine has online manuals that will tell you which buttons to push. Even when calibrated, the heads may not match your compass because of deviation, variation and which direction you are headed in, but it should be close. Check ebay for a complete set of components. I would think that might be a better route than trying to find seperate components, or spending $ for a brand new unit. Good luck......Jeff
autohelm 4000
of all the things i've done with my boat, the only one i regret was gettting involved with raymarine, and an autohelm st4000. first of all, the owner's manual clearly warns against using it in rough water. i guess it was desinged to use while moored at tea time. secondly, getting in touch with raymarine is no more possible than getting in touch with rms titanic. i have found, catalina, garmin, dutchman, lewmar, datamarine, harken, and every other company i needed to deal with easy to deal with. when my raymarine calm water autopilot went wild and blew out my whole electric system the company was nowhere. calls and emails have been consistently ignored. you are warned.
of all the things i've done with my boat, the only one i regret was gettting involved with raymarine, and an autohelm st4000. first of all, the owner's manual clearly warns against using it in rough water. i guess it was desinged to use while moored at tea time. secondly, getting in touch with raymarine is no more possible than getting in touch with rms titanic. i have found, catalina, garmin, dutchman, lewmar, datamarine, harken, and every other company i needed to deal with easy to deal with. when my raymarine calm water autopilot went wild and blew out my whole electric system the company was nowhere. calls and emails have been consistently ignored. you are warned.
Thanks Ed...that brings up another question
Also installed are an Autohelm wind direction (doesn't work), wind speed, depth instument, and knot log (doesn't work)....all SeaTalk Autohelm. With this "integrated" system, I am inclined to try to fix what's not working. Maybe I'm making a mistake trying to "resurrect" an old system as you suggest. But on the other hand.....it could be a simple fix and I'm in business. I hate working on things I know nothing about......Gary
Also installed are an Autohelm wind direction (doesn't work), wind speed, depth instument, and knot log (doesn't work)....all SeaTalk Autohelm. With this "integrated" system, I am inclined to try to fix what's not working. Maybe I'm making a mistake trying to "resurrect" an old system as you suggest. But on the other hand.....it could be a simple fix and I'm in business. I hate working on things I know nothing about......Gary
4000 is Good
Hi Gary, I would try to keep it. I installed the ST4000MKII on my H320 last summer. It works great and it is really handy. Even though the drive motor is expensive, it is improved (somehow) on the new MKII ones. The biggest reason to keep it is that your boat is already setup for it, installation from scratch is alot of work, I found out! Download the manual, run through the setup stuff, not sure you can do that without the motor. The system will compensate the deviation automatically and you can set it to display magnetic OR true, that may be your only problem. Also the control head provides the NMEA to SeaTalk conversion for my Garmin GPS and can display GPS and other info in addition to the autopilot info. You might also look at your rudder system, if it has the rudder sensor installed you are about another day of fabrication ahead! Gary
Hi Gary, I would try to keep it. I installed the ST4000MKII on my H320 last summer. It works great and it is really handy. Even though the drive motor is expensive, it is improved (somehow) on the new MKII ones. The biggest reason to keep it is that your boat is already setup for it, installation from scratch is alot of work, I found out! Download the manual, run through the setup stuff, not sure you can do that without the motor. The system will compensate the deviation automatically and you can set it to display magnetic OR true, that may be your only problem. Also the control head provides the NMEA to SeaTalk conversion for my Garmin GPS and can display GPS and other info in addition to the autopilot info. You might also look at your rudder system, if it has the rudder sensor installed you are about another day of fabrication ahead! Gary
Thanks for the warning....
and I will check the manual for calibration procedures Jeff. Also, you are correct and I was wrong.....on the binnacle are wind, depth and speed. Autopilot head is mounted low in the cockpit and there is another head at the nav station which, I think, has a heading function and many others. Santa has agreed to bring me either new Tri-matrix portlights or autopilot, so I must decide soon. Thanks for the help
and I will check the manual for calibration procedures Jeff. Also, you are correct and I was wrong.....on the binnacle are wind, depth and speed. Autopilot head is mounted low in the cockpit and there is another head at the nav station which, I think, has a heading function and many others. Santa has agreed to bring me either new Tri-matrix portlights or autopilot, so I must decide soon. Thanks for the help
What response....
before I can respond, I have more responses. What a forum! Not having the motor, I wonder if calibrating would allow the unit to display the correct heading? If so, this would at least indicate that this function is working properly. Yes Gary, this is the reason I'm considering trying to salvage it all, it's all wired and in place. It even has a Garmin GPS wire stubbed out at the helm, though it probably won't match my Garmin map76.....Adapter maybe? I will go to the boat today and mess around with it and see what happens. Thanks again.
before I can respond, I have more responses. What a forum! Not having the motor, I wonder if calibrating would allow the unit to display the correct heading? If so, this would at least indicate that this function is working properly. Yes Gary, this is the reason I'm considering trying to salvage it all, it's all wired and in place. It even has a Garmin GPS wire stubbed out at the helm, though it probably won't match my Garmin map76.....Adapter maybe? I will go to the boat today and mess around with it and see what happens. Thanks again.
Gary, I've always gotten pretty good ...
support from Raymarine, which I believe makes a good product. I installed the ST4000+ on our 1989 H28 and was very pleased with its performance during the two years we had it. I preferred the control head design of this unit. Our current boat came with an Autohelm 7000, a very impressive unit, which is now almost 15 years old. Even as strong as it is I prefer manual piloting when sea state and point of sail warrants. In the thousands of sail miles that we have spent with the Raymarine and Autohelm systems, maybe five percent of it required manual piloting. In these few cases we were usually in heavy quartering seas wing-on-wing. In these conditions there is little room for error in avoiding an accidental gibe. Terry
support from Raymarine, which I believe makes a good product. I installed the ST4000+ on our 1989 H28 and was very pleased with its performance during the two years we had it. I preferred the control head design of this unit. Our current boat came with an Autohelm 7000, a very impressive unit, which is now almost 15 years old. Even as strong as it is I prefer manual piloting when sea state and point of sail warrants. In the thousands of sail miles that we have spent with the Raymarine and Autohelm systems, maybe five percent of it required manual piloting. In these few cases we were usually in heavy quartering seas wing-on-wing. In these conditions there is little room for error in avoiding an accidental gibe. Terry
The only reason to keep this unit
is that you have it installed with other compatible st50 stuff. The service I have gotten has been about the worst of any company that I have ever dealt with. That was about 9 years ago so it may be better now but the guy actually lied to me time and again. I do not use that word lightly and they were lies - not some misunderstanding, not some misstatement, and no doubt about it. You cannot completely check the control head without the motor. The motor control circuitry is a bridge controller using five power mosfets which are actually cheap and easy to replace if you are technically inclined and can solder electronics stuff. You can calibrate it to display the real heading even if it will not control the motor. You cannot tell that until you plug in a new one. All things considered, I would get a motor and make it work. If you have won the lottery, replace it all and forget about it.
is that you have it installed with other compatible st50 stuff. The service I have gotten has been about the worst of any company that I have ever dealt with. That was about 9 years ago so it may be better now but the guy actually lied to me time and again. I do not use that word lightly and they were lies - not some misunderstanding, not some misstatement, and no doubt about it. You cannot completely check the control head without the motor. The motor control circuitry is a bridge controller using five power mosfets which are actually cheap and easy to replace if you are technically inclined and can solder electronics stuff. You can calibrate it to display the real heading even if it will not control the motor. You cannot tell that until you plug in a new one. All things considered, I would get a motor and make it work. If you have won the lottery, replace it all and forget about it.
Raymarine System
I have a 1981 H-33. I have installed the Raymarine ST-60 Speed, Depth and Wind instruments, an ST4000+ autopilot and a C-80 Chartplotter along with an 18" radome. Speed,depth and wind were easy, autopilot a little harder and chartplotter and radar a bit of a challenge. Support from Raymarine was "good". Everything is now "singing the same tune" although it took a few practice sessions. Autopilot steers well after some experimentation with settings. Write down what your current settings are and go out and play! Does it steer an Arrow Straight track? No but neither do I. Hard on the wind (20-26kt, 3-5' seas) in wind track mode the boat stayed in 50'-60' wide "lane", OK by me and very comfortable. If you spend a little time getting it setup it works well, if you stick it in and expect the "factory" settings to be perfect you'll be disappointed. It isn't the "Perfect" autopilot but it's good. ....(Sound of soapbox being dismantled...)
I have a 1981 H-33. I have installed the Raymarine ST-60 Speed, Depth and Wind instruments, an ST4000+ autopilot and a C-80 Chartplotter along with an 18" radome. Speed,depth and wind were easy, autopilot a little harder and chartplotter and radar a bit of a challenge. Support from Raymarine was "good". Everything is now "singing the same tune" although it took a few practice sessions. Autopilot steers well after some experimentation with settings. Write down what your current settings are and go out and play! Does it steer an Arrow Straight track? No but neither do I. Hard on the wind (20-26kt, 3-5' seas) in wind track mode the boat stayed in 50'-60' wide "lane", OK by me and very comfortable. If you spend a little time getting it setup it works well, if you stick it in and expect the "factory" settings to be perfect you'll be disappointed. It isn't the "Perfect" autopilot but it's good. ....(Sound of soapbox being dismantled...)
And if you replace it, a couple things to consider
Bigger boat pilots like Terrys 7000 and my older 6000 mount below decks. Nothing but a control panel is out to weather. And the biggest advantage is that they drive the rudder directly. Two advantages of that; First like Terrys', they are very powerful because a big drive unit can be placed out of the way below, instead of competing for space at the steering station. Second, they drive the rudder directly, not via the steering system. If the steering fails, the pilot is still there. And third, (sorry, there just too many good points) the steering will last a lifetime. No steering load is sent through the wheel so it won't wear out. After 18 years with my 6000 there is no wear on the steering or the pilot. If you need to replace, strongly consider saving your lunch money for a below decks system.
Bigger boat pilots like Terrys 7000 and my older 6000 mount below decks. Nothing but a control panel is out to weather. And the biggest advantage is that they drive the rudder directly. Two advantages of that; First like Terrys', they are very powerful because a big drive unit can be placed out of the way below, instead of competing for space at the steering station. Second, they drive the rudder directly, not via the steering system. If the steering fails, the pilot is still there. And third, (sorry, there just too many good points) the steering will last a lifetime. No steering load is sent through the wheel so it won't wear out. After 18 years with my 6000 there is no wear on the steering or the pilot. If you need to replace, strongly consider saving your lunch money for a below decks system.
Hi Fred, right on...
I'm curious, does your website have photos of your 6000 installation? The steering quadrant on our boat is below decks, is that where yours is located? Does your 6000 use a linear drive motor like ours? I'm not familiar whether Gary's H31 quadrant is below decks and how the drive motor arm would attach. Our H28 quadrant was above decks in the steering well. I suppose you could mount the motor either in the aft cabin or transom locker and run the motor drive arm through the bulkhead to the quadrant. You would need some sort of weather seal to prevent water from coming into the aft cabin or transom locker. Terry
I'm curious, does your website have photos of your 6000 installation? The steering quadrant on our boat is below decks, is that where yours is located? Does your 6000 use a linear drive motor like ours? I'm not familiar whether Gary's H31 quadrant is below decks and how the drive motor arm would attach. Our H28 quadrant was above decks in the steering well. I suppose you could mount the motor either in the aft cabin or transom locker and run the motor drive arm through the bulkhead to the quadrant. You would need some sort of weather seal to prevent water from coming into the aft cabin or transom locker. Terry
Dont waste good money
Sounds like you are trying to save a car because you think the tires "might" still be good.Everyones experiences in life are different, but from my own personal experience having bought many used boats, usually very little is worth saving. In the long run, replacing things will be cheaper than fixing things. Now , all the fixer uppers......fire away
Sounds like you are trying to save a car because you think the tires "might" still be good.Everyones experiences in life are different, but from my own personal experience having bought many used boats, usually very little is worth saving. In the long run, replacing things will be cheaper than fixing things. Now , all the fixer uppers......fire away
Gary, use the Forum Archives, right here
Just do a search on ST4000. You'll be (sickeningly) interested in the results of over 4 years of input. Also try the link. Stu PS When our old ST3000 died a few years ago, I refused to buy an ST4000 or + or the "improved" models, exactly because of the posts available on the Forum Archives here. I bought a newer ST3000 and have been ABSOLUTELY delighted with it. Built in fluxgate compass, no interface BS, it just WORKS, and works well in all conditions. Sometimes, simpler IS better. If you like (or want) interfaced stuff, this modle ain't for you, but it sure works for us.
Just do a search on ST4000. You'll be (sickeningly) interested in the results of over 4 years of input. Also try the link. Stu PS When our old ST3000 died a few years ago, I refused to buy an ST4000 or + or the "improved" models, exactly because of the posts available on the Forum Archives here. I bought a newer ST3000 and have been ABSOLUTELY delighted with it. Built in fluxgate compass, no interface BS, it just WORKS, and works well in all conditions. Sometimes, simpler IS better. If you like (or want) interfaced stuff, this modle ain't for you, but it sure works for us.
I'm listening....
to all the Raymarine controversy. However, I'm still not sure of exactly what I need to have a complete system. Raymarine does sell the ST4000+MKII drive unit for ~$500 (see link), BUT DOES THAT INCLUDE THE WHEEL RING? I don't think so. If not, the decision is made. I'll have to get a complete new system.....right? and it's only $300 more than the drive unit alone. Just to know my options. To answer a question to one of the posts, my steering quadrant is accessable in the aft berth. Thanks much for all the posts.
to all the Raymarine controversy. However, I'm still not sure of exactly what I need to have a complete system. Raymarine does sell the ST4000+MKII drive unit for ~$500 (see link), BUT DOES THAT INCLUDE THE WHEEL RING? I don't think so. If not, the decision is made. I'll have to get a complete new system.....right? and it's only $300 more than the drive unit alone. Just to know my options. To answer a question to one of the posts, my steering quadrant is accessable in the aft berth. Thanks much for all the posts.
Terry
I use a separate tiller arm made by Edson. It's bolted just above the quadrant. The drive unit is attached behind the aft berth bulkhead. (way outasight) The flux-gate is in the stern locker dresser. (used to be hanging locker location) The computer is in the nav station. The indicating controller is also at the nav station. The non-indicating controller is in the NavPod. But there aren't too many pictures on my site.
I use a separate tiller arm made by Edson. It's bolted just above the quadrant. The drive unit is attached behind the aft berth bulkhead. (way outasight) The flux-gate is in the stern locker dresser. (used to be hanging locker location) The computer is in the nav station. The indicating controller is also at the nav station. The non-indicating controller is in the NavPod. But there aren't too many pictures on my site.
Gary, Fred's advice to get a below deck...
system has merit, but of course they cost more. If it were my boat and it had the control head and fluxgate compass I would contact Raymarine direct, explain your plight, tell them what you need and see if they will sell you the parts for less than it would be for a whole new system. If not, ask them if they have an online outlet store where they sell factory returns, discontinued models, etc. If so they may have what you need. You might come across a drive motor assembly eventually. It could be awhile. Terry
system has merit, but of course they cost more. If it were my boat and it had the control head and fluxgate compass I would contact Raymarine direct, explain your plight, tell them what you need and see if they will sell you the parts for less than it would be for a whole new system. If not, ask them if they have an online outlet store where they sell factory returns, discontinued models, etc. If so they may have what you need. You might come across a drive motor assembly eventually. It could be awhile. Terry
Hope it works out for you. To solo sail...
without one can become difficult when you're trying to trim, change tacks, etc. It makes sailing a much more pleasant experience. If you can talk to the right person at Raymarine and explain what you have and that you would prefer to stay with their product you might get lucky. They sell thousands of these units. They have to have drive motor assemblies laying around that have been returned or refurbished. Three years ago I purchased an Xantrex inverter through their online outlet store where they sell discontinued models and factory returns. Cost me 50% of new and it came with a one year factory warranty. Let us know how things turn out with your Raymarine request and good luck. Terry
without one can become difficult when you're trying to trim, change tacks, etc. It makes sailing a much more pleasant experience. If you can talk to the right person at Raymarine and explain what you have and that you would prefer to stay with their product you might get lucky. They sell thousands of these units. They have to have drive motor assemblies laying around that have been returned or refurbished. Three years ago I purchased an Xantrex inverter through their online outlet store where they sell discontinued models and factory returns. Cost me 50% of new and it came with a one year factory warranty. Let us know how things turn out with your Raymarine request and good luck. Terry
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