Need Advice: Purchase Catalina 22 SK

[hubbardbilly]

Ok, I'm new to Catalina sailboats. I learned to sail on the Severn River (yep, Annapolis guy...) on Lasers. Now I have a family in and I want to buy a starter boat (wife and 3 kids under 5).

Came across a 22' Catalina with trailer, good sails, and working engine listed for $2,500. I live 10 minutes from the Bay, so I figure this would be perfect.

Going to look for rot, blisters, keel, mast bolts, etc... this afternoon. If they tell me it runs fine but won't put it in the water for a test sail, do I still make an offer? At $2,500 and the seller seems upstanding, this doesn't seem like a huge risk. Any thoughts???

Thanks everybody!!! I look forward to good sailing!

 

[hubbardbilly]

Sorry, forgot to mention it's a 1981.

 

[OldCat]

It will be a great starter keel boat. As the kids get a lot bigger, it will be too small, not just to camp aboard, but, IMHO, even to sail. I have sailed a C22 with 5 aboard (rented boat) before I bought mine, but the kids were younger then. Mine are 13-18 now. I would not want to sail with 5 ADULTS aboard - if the (#@! hits the fan, I think it is too much weight and too many big bodies in too small a space.

However, the boat is easy to single hand. As long as one adult can Shepard three small kids, then one can handle the boat. Stay in protected waters and the boat will be fine for two adults and three small kids. Or, one adult and two kids big enough to know when and where move themselves to the right place on the boat when needed.

My 2c, but then I have had a tough year with thunderstorms and I have had to sail out of some 'interesting' conditions this year.

Make sure the keel winch is the clutch type, stock or similar. Click type are unsafe. Inspect everything keel related, especially the cable, volcano hose and its fiberglass as well as the keel pivot. This last may be hard to evaluate out of the water - but keel clunk in waves means the bushing is worn - I am not really sure how hard this is to fix. Have a good motor.

You will get more help at the C22 board where the C22 folks hang out and there are some knowledgeable folks who are real artists at mods and fixing stuff: http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/forumdisplay.php?f=59

Pictures will help us evaluate the boat's rigging, and maybe some other stuff. A swing keel is OK, and nice if you want to travel with the boat. You can post a lot of detained picts, we are happy to help and give our glass o' grogs worth of advice.

OC

 

[jrowan]

We owned a C 22 when new in the 80's. The keel will "clunk" when down even when new! It was an 1982 model. As mentioned above look hard at the keel connections. I would be wary of any boat purchase without sailing first. I don't care if its 25 bucks or 2,500. I bought a used C 25 from a dealer who swore up & down she was a good boat, only to find the cabin full of water a week later, from a slow seepage leak that couldn't bee seen easily. Sail first, then buy. But Old Cat is right, with a family of 5, U will outgrow it quickly. I have 2 kids, & my family of 4 outgrew a C 25 in one year. Then outgrew a 28 ft. S 2 the 2nd year. Now on my third boat, a C 30. We'll probably ourgrow this one in another year or two! (That's just my excuse for buying up). The
C 22 is a good, albeit small keel boat. Cheers.

 

[Clark]

Please heed the advice offered by the others. To address your original question, don't shell out the $ until you get a "sea" trial. What you can do, and this is quite common, is to make an offer (assuming you have it checked out properly) contingent on a trial. Draw up the paperwork; produce a check etc. and tear them all up if something significant is discovered during the trial. And as for the trial itself, it would be really good if you had someone along that was familiar with the C22 (or similar C25). All this may sound a bit over-the-top but you do not want to discover you have to spend another couple thousand on top of your purchase price.
Also, it IS a 30 year old boat. Are you fairly handy?

 

[hubbardbilly]

Thanks everybody: I have scheduled a sea-trial for this upcoming Saturday. Structurally and condition-wise, she looked very good. However, I haven't seen the engine run, inspected the tiller, and I haven't seen the sails. All to be done on Saturday.

Also, the owner has had the boat for 3 years after buying from the original owner. The current owner is a novice sailor so no repairs have been made in those 3 years. As such, the electrical looks really bad and it will be interesting to see if any of the lights work and the VHF. Those will certainly impact the price I pay. I can make those repairs as well as any engine stuff...I'm good with 2-stroke motorcycles.

I'm handy enough to make repairs...I'll have the boat trailered in my yard during the off-season to get work done. I just want it to be "sail-ready" for the rest of this season.

So, as for the sails...if there are any rips/tears to I just say "no"? Or just low-ball based on the repair costs.

 

[Clark]

Well $2500 isn't going to buy you a boat with near-new laminate sails. Small/short rips and tears are no big deal IF the fabric is in decent shape. What you want to look for is if either the fabric or seam thread has decayed. Grab the sail on either side of a seam and tug on it. If the cloth pulls away from the thread or the thread breaks; the sail is most likely done. The nice thing about C22's is that lots of stuff is available on the used market. A new set of cruising sails will run ~1K and a decent set of used will be 4-600.
Again, the guy is asking 2500 so don't expect everything to be pristine. If you see too much work and $ to get it useable and safe on the water; just walk away.

 

[Team118]

Good luck this Saturday.

I bought a 1979 C22 10 years ago. She was sitting on her trailer on a country road crossroads. The extent of my inspection was to peek through the windows.

She looked real nice and I knew nothing about sailing. I made an offer, had a friend trailer her back home and had another friend set her up for me and show me how to sail it...Six years later, I never had a problem with her and improved her with a VHF/Stereo, CDI Jib furling system, battery charger, solar charger and other things.

Was I lucky...sure.

After 6 years bigger just HAD to be better so I bought a 1977 C30. Sitting on the hard, looking weak and weary. I made an offer, they launched her, I had a friend help me motor her the 5 hours to my home and did a full interior refab that winter...no survey, no knowledge of what I was getting into.

I've found deck rot, Catalina smile issues, some wood rot in the bilge walls, bad wiring, old worn hoses, etc.

4 years later, I love the boat and most of the issues have been slowly resolved...except the smile, that's under water and I can't see it.

Was I lucky...sure.

I was offered a chance to buy a 1973 Columbia 36 by the original owner...couldn't do it...love my Cat and my Cat loves me (or my money, not sure which)

Certainly what I did was very reckless, but perhaps the Catalina family is resiliant enough to overcome that. Good luck! I know you'll be just fine!

Chris

 

[OldCat]

Interesting, mine never makes any noise. Improvements over the years?

OC

 

[Joe Diver]

Well....how'd the sea trials go? Did you buy the boat?

Pics?

 

[hubbardbilly]

Ok, sea trials got moved to this afternoon. I'll let you all know how it goes! I suspect they couldn't get the outboard started this weekend since it's been out of the water all year. They're putting it in the water today and I will sail around 3pm. Keep you all abreast..

 

[OldCat]

Ok, sea trials got moved to this afternoon. I'll let you all know how it goes! I suspect they couldn't get the outboard started this weekend since it's been out of the water all year. They're putting it in the water today and I will sail around 3pm. Keep you all abreast..

Carb rebuild...

If gas gets left in the carb, it leaves a residue. The residue clogs the carb. OB's are small, so small passages for fuel flow. Not letting the carb run dry at the end of the day increases risk. As does forgetting the Seafoam ...

OC

 

[hubbardbilly]

Alright...sea trials done yesterday afternoon...ADVENTURE!!!

3pm start time got delayed because the trailer had a valve stem blow on a tire. I showed up and they were getting the valve stem replaced. Meanwhile, I inspected the sails laid out on the grass.

The jib was torn along the leech seam. Some rips were over 3-4' long. So, the jib needs replacement as it also had some other small tears and dry-rot.

The mainsail looked good with normal wear and no tears. No evidence of dry-rot. They probably kept the sail cover on it when not in-use but left the roller furling jib in the sun, which would explain why the leech was rotted and torn.

So they came back with the tire and the owner put it on the trailer with the bolts. We dropped the jack and started to the launch. About halfway there (I was following him) I saw the tire we replaced start wobbling and I honked my horn. He didn't hear and then the tire flew off. He forgot to tighten the bolts with the tire on the ground.

So, we got new bolts and put the tire on. The bearings were greased ahead of time, but that bearing was shot. We got back on the road and finally launched the boat around 4:45.

All the rigging looked fine, so I really wanted to see the motor run and test the swing keel. Motor started first pull and ran great (owner took very good care with it). Oh, the motor also has an alternator, which is a plus! I operated the swing keel and it seemed fine. When cranking down, it doesn't click which I suspect is correct. I kept cranking until it felt slacked which is when I assume it was all the way out???

I cranked it back in slowly and everything seemed fine. I cycled it twice with no problems.

The electrical is suspect. Wires bundled up and messy inside the cabin under the first "step" when you walk down. I doubt any of the running lights work as the owner had never tried them because they "don't go out at night". Yeah, good idea...

Overall summary: Hull and mast/rigging in very good shape. Electrical: Poor but I'm handy so not a tough fix. Sails: Jib needs replaced, Mainsail fair. Trailer: Poor...owner said he would replace hub and bearing before selling.

They want $2,500 but I plan to offer $1,500 given I would need a new sail and hours of electrical repair. If he doesn't take it I'm walking away. Thoughts???

 

[Clark]

A solid boat with nice motor and serviceable trailer sounds like deal at $1500, even considering the electrical (not much $ to fix) and sails (good used sails are cheap) issues. Just be respectful if you make that offer.

 

[hubbardbilly]

Clark, maybe you can help...how much speed is lost without the jib? In other words, if I sail the boat this season with the mainsail only while I shop for a used jib, will the boat handle ok?

 

[Joe Diver]

At $1500 you may be walking, so get ready for it.

A jib for a C22 is not expensive, and the wiring on these boats is really simple. I've replaced my batteries, cabin lights, fans, and run some new wire. Really easy....and inexpensive too.

If that's all it needs....then the boat is already priced extremely well. At $2500, it's a good deal.

But, offer whatever you want to offer....you never know what perople will take!

 

[Joe Diver]

I sail my C25 on the main alone lots.....I'm not gonna win any races, but I can get 4 kts or so out of her depending on the wind. Have a bit more heel and weather helm than when sailing on both....but it's a "lazy man sail" when only on the main. Just depends on my mood when I'm singlehanding.

 

[hubbardbilly]

Thanks Joe. $1500 might be a starting point. I've been watching too much Pawn Stars!!!

 

[jrowan]

When I bought our 1985 C 25 years ago I negotiated down to $1200, but only because I knew that I had about 1,500 ahead of me to spend. Anytime that U get a "good" deal, its usually because the discount is going to wind up goin right back into the boat again.
So I say, start low, & bargain up from there. All they can do is say no. I wouldn't piss em off with lowballing too low, but I wouldn't expect them to repair anything if you bargain down. A trailer wheel bearing kit is less then 50 bucks. Word of advice: most trailers more than 20 years old are junk & an accident waiting to happen, which you've already witnessed. Take my advice & replace the wheel bearings, the tires if suspect, the winch cable, & look hard at the hitch assemble & brake light wiring. If/ when the trailer fails then so goes your new old boat! Fix the trailer the boat is resting on 1st, then the boat. Good luck. Jeremy

 

[Clark]

Billy, you can sail w/ main alone but it won't be very balanced and you'll lose a good third of your performance. A decent used jib is ~ 200. Check at:
http://www.mastheadsailinggear.com/UsedSailSearch.aspx