This is somewhat of a variation on the "when to reef" question but with a twist. During heavy winds, I typically reduced both main and jib sails. However, unless reduced considerably, I still experienced considerable weather helm. Once, in a much smaller boat, I sailed on jib alone but found that I could only go downwind or, at best, a beam reach making it impossible for me to get back to port without motoring. After that experience, I frequently sailed on reefed main alone with no jib. That seemed to work okay. Recently, however, on my larger Beneteau 321 with a large, overlapping genoa, I was lazy and just unfurled the jib during 20 plus knots wind. The main stayed completely furled and unused. To my amazement, she sailed beautifully with minimal heeling and no weather helm. True, it was hard to go to weather but I could point to 60 degrees which wasn't too much of a sacrifice. I would think that a more balanced sail plan with a little bit of main and little bit of jib would be ideal but it seems my experience on this boat indicates jib alone is good. I've paid closer attention to other sailors during heavy winds and found that some go on jib only, some on main sail only, and some with a little bit of both. DOES ANYBODY KNOW THE ANSWER? Is this just specific to every boat or is there some general principles which apply equally to all vessels?
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depends on boat
Hello, I think the answer really depends on the specific boat. On the Long Island Sound, the month of October had heavy winds all month. I bought my boat at the end of June, and I don't have much experience with it. I have been experimenting with various sail configurations. Here is what I have learned last month: Wind 15-20 kts with gusts to 25+: Sailed under reefed main alone. Boat went to weather fine, but a little slow. Beating into the wind and waves (4 ft swell) I was going about 3-4 kts. The boat was easy to control. I turned downwind a little and speed increased a lot, but it was more difficult to handle. My real surprise came when it was time to turn around and head home. I could not tack. I tried three times, but the boat would not turn through the wind. Each time I would get stuck in 'irons'. Then I figured I would jibe downwind. I kept the main sheeting in tight to avoid a crash jibe. Bigger surprise, I could not turn downwind. With the main in tight I could only sail 45 degrees upwind to 45 degrees downwind. I ended up using the motor to power tack and then sailed home. Similar conditions, wind 18-22, no real gusts. I sailed with 150 genoa, no main. Again the boat handled well. I couldn't point as high, only 50-60 degrees instead of 45, but the boat sailed faster, 4-5 kts. Again, I could not tack. I only tried two times, then I gave up and jibed. I could jibe, so I did that and sailed home. Next day the weather was about the same and I went out with reefed main and 135 genoa reefed to about a 100. This time the boat sailed much faster upwind (6 kts or so (hull speed is 6.5)). The boat heeled more than with main or jib alone, but it was easy to handle. Interestingly enough, I have more weather helm with reefed main and reefed headsail than with either sail alone. With the reefed main and reefed headsail I could tack! Speed on a reach was real fast, hull speed or higher all the time. Downwind on a run, with the wind on the rear quarter we were flying along and averaged more than hull speed for the 15 minutes we tried that point of sail. So, what I have learned is this: 1. It's best to sail my boat with both main and jib. A reefed main and reefed headsail are best. 2. If I'm by myself and don't want to handle all the sails, I can sail with headsail alone. I won't be able to point as high, sail as fast, or tack, but it's a lot easier to worry about 1 sail instead of 2. 3. I really should not sail with just a main. Finally, I wonder about specific boats and the time to reef. For my boat (Newport 28, 7500lbs, 5'6" fin keel) I need to reef at 15 kts. At 15 kts I sail with reefed main and full 135 genoa. At 20 kts I roll in the 135 to a 100 or so. Above 20 I roll in the 135 to an 80. Yes, a 100 jib would be a better sail but I don't have one and the furler makes it so easy to change sail size. Above 25 and I don't want to be out there! What do other boats do? Barry
Hello, I think the answer really depends on the specific boat. On the Long Island Sound, the month of October had heavy winds all month. I bought my boat at the end of June, and I don't have much experience with it. I have been experimenting with various sail configurations. Here is what I have learned last month: Wind 15-20 kts with gusts to 25+: Sailed under reefed main alone. Boat went to weather fine, but a little slow. Beating into the wind and waves (4 ft swell) I was going about 3-4 kts. The boat was easy to control. I turned downwind a little and speed increased a lot, but it was more difficult to handle. My real surprise came when it was time to turn around and head home. I could not tack. I tried three times, but the boat would not turn through the wind. Each time I would get stuck in 'irons'. Then I figured I would jibe downwind. I kept the main sheeting in tight to avoid a crash jibe. Bigger surprise, I could not turn downwind. With the main in tight I could only sail 45 degrees upwind to 45 degrees downwind. I ended up using the motor to power tack and then sailed home. Similar conditions, wind 18-22, no real gusts. I sailed with 150 genoa, no main. Again the boat handled well. I couldn't point as high, only 50-60 degrees instead of 45, but the boat sailed faster, 4-5 kts. Again, I could not tack. I only tried two times, then I gave up and jibed. I could jibe, so I did that and sailed home. Next day the weather was about the same and I went out with reefed main and 135 genoa reefed to about a 100. This time the boat sailed much faster upwind (6 kts or so (hull speed is 6.5)). The boat heeled more than with main or jib alone, but it was easy to handle. Interestingly enough, I have more weather helm with reefed main and reefed headsail than with either sail alone. With the reefed main and reefed headsail I could tack! Speed on a reach was real fast, hull speed or higher all the time. Downwind on a run, with the wind on the rear quarter we were flying along and averaged more than hull speed for the 15 minutes we tried that point of sail. So, what I have learned is this: 1. It's best to sail my boat with both main and jib. A reefed main and reefed headsail are best. 2. If I'm by myself and don't want to handle all the sails, I can sail with headsail alone. I won't be able to point as high, sail as fast, or tack, but it's a lot easier to worry about 1 sail instead of 2. 3. I really should not sail with just a main. Finally, I wonder about specific boats and the time to reef. For my boat (Newport 28, 7500lbs, 5'6" fin keel) I need to reef at 15 kts. At 15 kts I sail with reefed main and full 135 genoa. At 20 kts I roll in the 135 to a 100 or so. Above 20 I roll in the 135 to an 80. Yes, a 100 jib would be a better sail but I don't have one and the furler makes it so easy to change sail size. Above 25 and I don't want to be out there! What do other boats do? Barry
Sailing books are written for winter sailing.
One avenue we used was to buy as many of the books on sailing, sail types and functions and sailing theory as we could find. We then spent our first winter reading and bench sailing. If you don't have a sailing buddy, mentor or instructor then the only way to learn is to read or just try until you figure it out or give up....and that's not an option! SAILING FUNDAMENTALS by Gary Jobson is a very good start. SAIL & RIG TUNING by Ivar Dedekam should be required reading. Once you understand "center of effort" and "center of laterial resistance" and some of these concepts then you will understand the causes and effects of weather helm etc. If you like technical presentations then reading is the way to go. If not then join a local club or find a dock buddy and catch a few rides with them. Most sailors are more than willing to help. Once you build your skill level and are ready for "power tools!!!!" the book Sail & Rig Tuning is very useful. It is still a book we use often 4 years after we bought it and we sail a lot. Good luck, Ray
One avenue we used was to buy as many of the books on sailing, sail types and functions and sailing theory as we could find. We then spent our first winter reading and bench sailing. If you don't have a sailing buddy, mentor or instructor then the only way to learn is to read or just try until you figure it out or give up....and that's not an option! SAILING FUNDAMENTALS by Gary Jobson is a very good start. SAIL & RIG TUNING by Ivar Dedekam should be required reading. Once you understand "center of effort" and "center of laterial resistance" and some of these concepts then you will understand the causes and effects of weather helm etc. If you like technical presentations then reading is the way to go. If not then join a local club or find a dock buddy and catch a few rides with them. Most sailors are more than willing to help. Once you build your skill level and are ready for "power tools!!!!" the book Sail & Rig Tuning is very useful. It is still a book we use often 4 years after we bought it and we sail a lot. Good luck, Ray
On Sunday
We were out in 15-18 kts, full main, 150% genny. Up wind we were pointing 45-50 degs, doing an honest 6-7 kts over the ground, tacking was no problem. Off the wind 130-140 degs we hit 7.8 kts over the ground. Our boat has 27'11" waterline so hullspeed is approx. 7 kts. We have a 4800# lead keel, 11 ft beam, fin keel 6 ft draft, skeg hung rudder, fixed 2 blade Campbell Sailor prop. On a beam reach we pulled away from a 30 ft'er flying a symetrical spinnaker which makes me think we weren't over canvassed. I would always prefer to sail under a balanced sail plan, reefed main and headsail reefed or just smaller, 100% or whatever makes her balance. Main alone will induce severe weather helm due to so much drive aft of the centre of lateral resistance, just wants to swing the stern away from the wind but without the headsail there is no drive to carry her through the eye of the wind. Basically the main acts like a vane on a weather vane, holding the bow into the wind. Thats why the headsail is a necessity. Just my two cents worth. David
We were out in 15-18 kts, full main, 150% genny. Up wind we were pointing 45-50 degs, doing an honest 6-7 kts over the ground, tacking was no problem. Off the wind 130-140 degs we hit 7.8 kts over the ground. Our boat has 27'11" waterline so hullspeed is approx. 7 kts. We have a 4800# lead keel, 11 ft beam, fin keel 6 ft draft, skeg hung rudder, fixed 2 blade Campbell Sailor prop. On a beam reach we pulled away from a 30 ft'er flying a symetrical spinnaker which makes me think we weren't over canvassed. I would always prefer to sail under a balanced sail plan, reefed main and headsail reefed or just smaller, 100% or whatever makes her balance. Main alone will induce severe weather helm due to so much drive aft of the centre of lateral resistance, just wants to swing the stern away from the wind but without the headsail there is no drive to carry her through the eye of the wind. Basically the main acts like a vane on a weather vane, holding the bow into the wind. Thats why the headsail is a necessity. Just my two cents worth. David
Your unasked question...
Rick, what struck me about your post is the question you didn't ask. Your experience - sailing somwhat acceptably in higher winds on headsail alone - is something I notice the owners of newer sloops often describing. (This is as opposed to the experience Barry is describing on his much earlier Newport design, where the boat wants both sails or the crew have to accept significant performance compromises). Those who do find their boats' helm balanced on headsail alone like it, because of course the headsail is on a roller and so there's little sail handling involved. This circumstance can also exist with fractional rigged sloops (at least at these lower wind strengths), despite the Center of Effort (CE) being further forward than with a taller, overlapping headsail. But...back to the question you didn't ask. Your headsail's up, your boat's doing fine in 20 kts, you aren't going well to weather because your boat has insufficient drive and your CE is a bit too far forward, but all in all things are under control and 'easy'. And then the afternoon sea breeze adds its presence to the day (or you get some localized acceleration around the nearby headland, or the day's weather simply brings in an incrementally tightening isobar), and now the wind's 25 kts. Still no big deal but you'll notice the boat heeling more, wave action begins to steepen, you'll find you're making more leeway (perhaps now you can't really do more than sail across the wind...) and so you reef the headsail a bit. This is easier on the boat, which comes back up a bit, but with the CE even further forward, she'll now begin to develop some lee helm and unable to sail to weather. But the wind is still accelerating some, now reaching to 30 kts, still not 'bad' and the sea hasn't yet been elevated to reflect the higher wind strength...but what do you do now? That for me was your unasked question. You've found that your boat sails acceptably for you under one headsail at 20 kts, but your sail plan isn't prepared for 25 or 30 kts. So what if...? The answer of course is not to just keep reefing that headsail further. The shape will get ugly and of course the cloth will eventually stretch, the CE will move even further forward, and the hardware does have finite limits. If your boat found a reefed main and full or partially reefed headsail to be acceptable at 20-25 kts, you will probably find you are better off furling the jib (and further reefing the main? I don't know) when that afternoon wind climbs to 30 kts, and you'll still have options left that don't include trying to raise and reef a mainsail in 25-30 kts of wind. I'd encourage you to keep playing with sail combos and see how your boat performs with each of them, as you might find a little more effort up front means far less effort or worse results later. Jack
Rick, what struck me about your post is the question you didn't ask. Your experience - sailing somwhat acceptably in higher winds on headsail alone - is something I notice the owners of newer sloops often describing. (This is as opposed to the experience Barry is describing on his much earlier Newport design, where the boat wants both sails or the crew have to accept significant performance compromises). Those who do find their boats' helm balanced on headsail alone like it, because of course the headsail is on a roller and so there's little sail handling involved. This circumstance can also exist with fractional rigged sloops (at least at these lower wind strengths), despite the Center of Effort (CE) being further forward than with a taller, overlapping headsail. But...back to the question you didn't ask. Your headsail's up, your boat's doing fine in 20 kts, you aren't going well to weather because your boat has insufficient drive and your CE is a bit too far forward, but all in all things are under control and 'easy'. And then the afternoon sea breeze adds its presence to the day (or you get some localized acceleration around the nearby headland, or the day's weather simply brings in an incrementally tightening isobar), and now the wind's 25 kts. Still no big deal but you'll notice the boat heeling more, wave action begins to steepen, you'll find you're making more leeway (perhaps now you can't really do more than sail across the wind...) and so you reef the headsail a bit. This is easier on the boat, which comes back up a bit, but with the CE even further forward, she'll now begin to develop some lee helm and unable to sail to weather. But the wind is still accelerating some, now reaching to 30 kts, still not 'bad' and the sea hasn't yet been elevated to reflect the higher wind strength...but what do you do now? That for me was your unasked question. You've found that your boat sails acceptably for you under one headsail at 20 kts, but your sail plan isn't prepared for 25 or 30 kts. So what if...? The answer of course is not to just keep reefing that headsail further. The shape will get ugly and of course the cloth will eventually stretch, the CE will move even further forward, and the hardware does have finite limits. If your boat found a reefed main and full or partially reefed headsail to be acceptable at 20-25 kts, you will probably find you are better off furling the jib (and further reefing the main? I don't know) when that afternoon wind climbs to 30 kts, and you'll still have options left that don't include trying to raise and reef a mainsail in 25-30 kts of wind. I'd encourage you to keep playing with sail combos and see how your boat performs with each of them, as you might find a little more effort up front means far less effort or worse results later. Jack
reduced sail area
I think maybe each boat has it's preference..or each sailor has his or her preference based on our experiences...Our boat, an O'Day 272 LE has a wing keel w/ 2'11" draft. Being a shallow draft boat, she will happily sail along with either main alone or headsail alone. But.. I've found that if the wind is blowing hard that I enjoy the sailing more if I reef the main and use maybe 100 % headsail. She just heels over and locks in and wow, it is just such great fun. If I'm lazy, I'll just go with the main alone. My least favorite is jib alone. Many people here seem reluctant to reef soon enought. Some brag about never reefing, but the best sailors in America reef because they correctly understand that their boats respond better when not healing 30 degrees. Just my opinion.
I think maybe each boat has it's preference..or each sailor has his or her preference based on our experiences...Our boat, an O'Day 272 LE has a wing keel w/ 2'11" draft. Being a shallow draft boat, she will happily sail along with either main alone or headsail alone. But.. I've found that if the wind is blowing hard that I enjoy the sailing more if I reef the main and use maybe 100 % headsail. She just heels over and locks in and wow, it is just such great fun. If I'm lazy, I'll just go with the main alone. My least favorite is jib alone. Many people here seem reluctant to reef soon enought. Some brag about never reefing, but the best sailors in America reef because they correctly understand that their boats respond better when not healing 30 degrees. Just my opinion.
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