I am looking for a sailboat to travel around the world with a team of 6-10. My first priority is safety both for the vessel and the passengers. Second priority is reasonable comfort for passengers. And third priority is best possible speed under sails. Price is up to $70,000. What type of boat could it be? My other questions are: 1. What is better nowadays for the hull, to be unsinkable or bulletproof? Probably it can’t be both? 2. Depending on the answer to question 1, and considering this boat as a long time investment, what material should be selected for the hull? 3. Is Ferro Cement hull bulletproof? 4. What is approximate lifetime for Ferro Cement, Steel, Wood and Fiberglass hulls considering all other conditions as equal? 5. What is estimated cost of service of 1 square meter of surface for hulls of different materials? And which hulls need servicing more often? 6. What length of a boat is most likely to provide more safety for sailors, good comfort and reasonable speed under sails? 7. If you are not in position to answer my questions, could you provide me with a proper source of information in Internet? Thank you in advance.
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Some Thoughts
1. Doubt bulletproof or unsinkable either need to be a requirement. I doubt if five percent of the boats cruising are either. 2. for 6-10 passengers, you will need a large craft. I think 6 crew will require 40 feet, 10 needs 50-60. A craft that large will be very expensive to outfit because of the size and strength requirements of the gear. Try for something in the 40' range and smaller crew. 3. I would go with fiberglass or steel for hull material. Wood is fine too. All are very dependent on condition and quality of construction. An expert should examine the vessel. 4. The lifetime of hull materials is dependent on construction quality and maintenance. 50+ yeas should be the norm for any, well cared for. 5. Ferro-cement boats are cruising, but few. There are often problems with electrolysis of the steel sub-structure. The resale value is minimal. Good luck and continue your research. Preparation is key to making good choices. Rick D.
1. Doubt bulletproof or unsinkable either need to be a requirement. I doubt if five percent of the boats cruising are either. 2. for 6-10 passengers, you will need a large craft. I think 6 crew will require 40 feet, 10 needs 50-60. A craft that large will be very expensive to outfit because of the size and strength requirements of the gear. Try for something in the 40' range and smaller crew. 3. I would go with fiberglass or steel for hull material. Wood is fine too. All are very dependent on condition and quality of construction. An expert should examine the vessel. 4. The lifetime of hull materials is dependent on construction quality and maintenance. 50+ yeas should be the norm for any, well cared for. 5. Ferro-cement boats are cruising, but few. There are often problems with electrolysis of the steel sub-structure. The resale value is minimal. Good luck and continue your research. Preparation is key to making good choices. Rick D.
Why Bullet Proof Vests aren't Ferro . . .
Okay, since Rick didn't ask, I must. Why are you looking for a hull that is bullet proof? (If you mean bullet proof in the literal sense). Rather than wait for your reply, and while I wait for my Sunday morning crew to arrive, I’ll amuse myself by speculating . . . 1.You are afraid of Pirates. 2.You want to be a Pirate. 3.You have a gaggle of angry ex-wives. (Hence the 'round the world trip). 4.You’ve looked at the current price of good Rum and have decided to start running it again. BTW, Ferro, as far as being bullet proof, would be about the worst hull material. Any high velocity impact would probably cause a shattering effect and leave behind a bigger hole than any of the other materials. Nick “Julia Bell” C-27, #86
Okay, since Rick didn't ask, I must. Why are you looking for a hull that is bullet proof? (If you mean bullet proof in the literal sense). Rather than wait for your reply, and while I wait for my Sunday morning crew to arrive, I’ll amuse myself by speculating . . . 1.You are afraid of Pirates. 2.You want to be a Pirate. 3.You have a gaggle of angry ex-wives. (Hence the 'round the world trip). 4.You’ve looked at the current price of good Rum and have decided to start running it again. BTW, Ferro, as far as being bullet proof, would be about the worst hull material. Any high velocity impact would probably cause a shattering effect and leave behind a bigger hole than any of the other materials. Nick “Julia Bell” C-27, #86
Kevlar, but you can't afford it
Aren't bullet-proof vests made of Kevlar? That would be far too expensive for you budget. If you want a boat large enough to accomodate 10 people that is unsinkable and sails fast for the price you're willing to spend, I suggest you start looking for a catamaran. MArk
Aren't bullet-proof vests made of Kevlar? That would be far too expensive for you budget. If you want a boat large enough to accomodate 10 people that is unsinkable and sails fast for the price you're willing to spend, I suggest you start looking for a catamaran. MArk
Theory of relativity
Keep in mind the gentleman writing this post is from Russia. We are used to a lot of luxuries that the rest of the world never dreams of. When you have very little you find ways to get by with what you have. In my visit to Russia several years ago I observed old motor vehicles that would be scrap metal in the states still being maintained and used and running. Also when you give up having to "look good" you find that very seaworthy boats might have topside blemishes or other defects that don't matter in terms of safety. What kind of boats did they sail in the 1500's when this country was first settled? Today you would call them unfit for world voyages. I applaud the writers desire to live his dream. I recommend a Gulfstar 41 ketch rig which can be picked up for about this price with a little left over. A heavy boat but a good sail plan and good cabin space. Full keel provides some security from groundings. These are early 1970's boats. Good luck in your search. Dave
Keep in mind the gentleman writing this post is from Russia. We are used to a lot of luxuries that the rest of the world never dreams of. When you have very little you find ways to get by with what you have. In my visit to Russia several years ago I observed old motor vehicles that would be scrap metal in the states still being maintained and used and running. Also when you give up having to "look good" you find that very seaworthy boats might have topside blemishes or other defects that don't matter in terms of safety. What kind of boats did they sail in the 1500's when this country was first settled? Today you would call them unfit for world voyages. I applaud the writers desire to live his dream. I recommend a Gulfstar 41 ketch rig which can be picked up for about this price with a little left over. A heavy boat but a good sail plan and good cabin space. Full keel provides some security from groundings. These are early 1970's boats. Good luck in your search. Dave
World cruiser
The advice in previous posts is pretty good. For the size boat you need the best material is welded aluminum in the modern 508* series of alloys. Aluminum boats can be made very strong for their weight and aluminum is ductile so that minor impacts usually cause dents rather than fractures. Maintenance requirements are low as long as there is no copper, brass or bronze aboard; otherwise corrosion can be a serious problem. A well designed aluminum boat is probably as close to "bullet proof" as you can get (followed closely by steel). Unfortunately, aluminum boats are expensive and you are not likely to find one in your price range. Perhaps next best in sizes over 40 feet, is steel. Steel is less expensive than aluminum but there are substantial maintenance requirements. Medium size steel yachts are much more common in Europe than in North America and you might find one there in your price and size range. Corrosion management is the key with steel boats and it is not just rust on the outside. Corrosion in the bilges and in the cracks along the ribs and stringers can be a serious problem. Third best and probably least costly is fiberglass. You should be able to find a used mass production fiberglass sailboat that will serve your needs within your price range. Fiberglass is strong but tends to lack stiffness and is frequently "cored" with foam or plywood to increase stiffness. A used fiberglass boat needs a careful survey with special attention to the state of the coring. Impacts that will cause steel and aluminum to dent will cause fiberglass to fracture. On the other hand, used boats are abundant and the design is usually more attractive because of the ability to mold compound curves inexpensively. Wood is not a suitable material for extended blue water cruising unless it is epoxy-saturated, cold-molded plywood. Cold molded plywood has roughly the same qualities as fiberglass but it is very labor intensive and hence expensive. It does, however, usually look nicer than fiberglass. Epoxy saturation prohibits rot so the boats will last. While wood has many fine properties, planked boats have the strength of their fasteners, not of the wood they're made of and should be avoided. A sprung plank in the middle of the ocean will ruin your whole day and impacts with floating logs, nearly submerged shipping containers or even whales are likely to pop a plank loose causing a massive leak. Ferrocement is just awful. Heavy and weak it is prone to corrosion of the steel reinforcing which results in spalling of the concrete. It is easy to break and virtually un-repairable. Altering the hull is very very difficult. Don't go there. I recommend to you Dave Gerr's book "The Nature of Boats" for some basic data, Nigel Calder's "Boatowner's Mechanical and Electrical Manual" and his newest "Nigel Calder's Cruising Handbook." These are full of very useful information. If you are likely to sail short handed you should get a copy of John Letcher's "Self Steering for Sailing Craft." This will show you an abundance of ways to make you boat steer herself. Unfortunately it is out of print but is available on the internet through the used book sellers at Borders and Barnes and Noble.
The advice in previous posts is pretty good. For the size boat you need the best material is welded aluminum in the modern 508* series of alloys. Aluminum boats can be made very strong for their weight and aluminum is ductile so that minor impacts usually cause dents rather than fractures. Maintenance requirements are low as long as there is no copper, brass or bronze aboard; otherwise corrosion can be a serious problem. A well designed aluminum boat is probably as close to "bullet proof" as you can get (followed closely by steel). Unfortunately, aluminum boats are expensive and you are not likely to find one in your price range. Perhaps next best in sizes over 40 feet, is steel. Steel is less expensive than aluminum but there are substantial maintenance requirements. Medium size steel yachts are much more common in Europe than in North America and you might find one there in your price and size range. Corrosion management is the key with steel boats and it is not just rust on the outside. Corrosion in the bilges and in the cracks along the ribs and stringers can be a serious problem. Third best and probably least costly is fiberglass. You should be able to find a used mass production fiberglass sailboat that will serve your needs within your price range. Fiberglass is strong but tends to lack stiffness and is frequently "cored" with foam or plywood to increase stiffness. A used fiberglass boat needs a careful survey with special attention to the state of the coring. Impacts that will cause steel and aluminum to dent will cause fiberglass to fracture. On the other hand, used boats are abundant and the design is usually more attractive because of the ability to mold compound curves inexpensively. Wood is not a suitable material for extended blue water cruising unless it is epoxy-saturated, cold-molded plywood. Cold molded plywood has roughly the same qualities as fiberglass but it is very labor intensive and hence expensive. It does, however, usually look nicer than fiberglass. Epoxy saturation prohibits rot so the boats will last. While wood has many fine properties, planked boats have the strength of their fasteners, not of the wood they're made of and should be avoided. A sprung plank in the middle of the ocean will ruin your whole day and impacts with floating logs, nearly submerged shipping containers or even whales are likely to pop a plank loose causing a massive leak. Ferrocement is just awful. Heavy and weak it is prone to corrosion of the steel reinforcing which results in spalling of the concrete. It is easy to break and virtually un-repairable. Altering the hull is very very difficult. Don't go there. I recommend to you Dave Gerr's book "The Nature of Boats" for some basic data, Nigel Calder's "Boatowner's Mechanical and Electrical Manual" and his newest "Nigel Calder's Cruising Handbook." These are full of very useful information. If you are likely to sail short handed you should get a copy of John Letcher's "Self Steering for Sailing Craft." This will show you an abundance of ways to make you boat steer herself. Unfortunately it is out of print but is available on the internet through the used book sellers at Borders and Barnes and Noble.
Fun option to consider
The link below will take you to a partially finished 56' catamaran for $25k. For the remaining 45k and some sweat equity, you could outfit her with some good solid equipment and maybe put in some kevlar reinforcement ;>). Just as an editorial comment... why would you want to go sailing with so many people? Are you starting a cult or something?
The link below will take you to a partially finished 56' catamaran for $25k. For the remaining 45k and some sweat equity, you could outfit her with some good solid equipment and maybe put in some kevlar reinforcement ;>). Just as an editorial comment... why would you want to go sailing with so many people? Are you starting a cult or something?
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