Need advice for a sailboat

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S

Sage

First I am so GLAD to stumble onto this forum and to hear from real sailors and not sales people. My hubby and I plan to retire and live on a sailboat in FL gulf in less than a year. We have looked at sailboats but no one has yet to answer this simple specific question other than every dealer says theirs is the best. And I feel they are just wanting to make a sale. Besides, we've now decided to buy used. So the question is...what type sailboat would be best to sail AND live on for a beginner? Not Brand Name. The type. Background: We are very green. I am skittish about sailing on the ocean. We want a boat that we can learn on easily as we ease into this. We're not looking for a big boat. From what I've learned, the smaller the better for new sailors but I "feel" I would be more comfortable on one about 16 ft or more. Or should it be bigger? Then we will slowly graduate up to bigger boats with more equipment. For now we'll live on it, take it out, but not far out because I want to be able to see the shore until we get really good at sailing. We could just live on it and never take it out but that is not what we want. All input would be greatly appreciated. If I'm in the wrong forum I apologize. If so, would someone direct me where I can get these answers. Also, we will be taking a sailing lesson 101 this spring on the Lake Erie. Thanks bunches to all in advance!!
 
Jan 8, 2004
39
- - New Port Richey, FL
Check the archives and your get a lot of ideas

I myself would notbuy anything under 22 feet long, I sail a macgregor, its pretty safe boat and being I am in he Clearwater area, I sail the gulf a lot. Any of the retractable keels would be good for the Florida Gulf coast. Happy sailing!
 
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Bill

Strictly Sail

You and your husband might want to consider wandering to Chicago in a couple of weeks to attend the Strictly Sail boat show on the Navy Pier. This might provide a lot of ideas as to what you need. Living on a boat requires a minimum amount of living space and certain amenitites. Trying to live on a boat that's too small might be more of a personal challenge than most couple are up to. YMMV.
 
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Dave and Sheryl Ellis

;) Have fun exploring the sailing world

Sage, Size equals comfort -- simple as that. Sailboats generally don't have the interior space that broad-shouldered powerboats of the same length have. You'll have to downsize your square footage expectations more than you probably imagine. Just have some fun getting familiar with sailboats, models, and configurations. You'll see everything is a trade-off in the designs. Easier deck maneuvering equals smaller interior space. I love mid-90's and newer Hunter sailboats because I think they do the trade-off well and have nice functional, easy to maintain interiors. You'll want an air conditioned interior too. Start thinking 26 feet minimum length, and have fun exploring the sailing world!
 
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Andy V

Getting informed is the best first step

Very well, sounds like you are putting together a great plan. Just to help in gathering information, here is a web page for your reference, www.sailmiami.com/liveaboard.htm. There is a forum and many other pieces of information from which to learn. With regards to the right boat, that depends on what kind of sailing you wish to do, how much money you wish to spend, and how good you are fixing things. If I wee to live aboard, I'd be more into living space and safety. There are many good old boats that fit this category. Another web page for you would be www.goodoldboats.com. Sailing school is also a great idea. There are many good off shore schools here on the eastern seaboard. Pick up a Sail magazine, and look at the adds. Good luck
 
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Cliff Ruckstuhl

Tough to answer

We sail on Lake Erie and weekend on our boat all summer long with a 2 week trip in the summer. The size of boat to start out on with what you have in mind is a tough call. We now have a Hunter 28.5 that we could live on if needed, but with a limited amount of personal stuff. Buying a boat here and sailing here with going south as part of the plan opens up some different idea's. Buying a 34 foot something and learing to sail it on some what protected water's and getting used to it and seeing if it is really what you want to do would be a good idea. You could alwauys have it hauled south or take it your self. But buying a fresh water boat would be a big plus verses a sun baked salt water boat down south. Another thought is to buy a 25 foot something for considerable less money and learn on it. Thenif it is all the dream you thought it would be than sell it and move up. My wife and I have kicked this around for years. How could it go wrong. A few things crept up. It is a totally different life style. Most if not all the furniture you own family stuff and all will not be going with you. You then need to look at all the other stuff you have clothes, PC, Stereo just all the stuff that you are spoiled by will not be making the trip. Yes you can take some and yes they do now have surround sound and Plasama screen 45" TV's. But all at a cost and will the boat you buy be able to install these. On land got to have toy's. But at sea the life style is not the same. My wife has a very large book collection of hard backs that she could not part with. Yes we could store them but not the same. After checking on allot of different things we came to the conclusion that a small house with a modest boat would be perfect for us. Remember when you live on the boat and have stuff set around for convenince and want to go sailing your taking the house with you. We sail in the Port Clinton area or around the Islands and you are more then welcome to come up and see what a 28.5 has to offer. We have some friends next to us with a 33 and then some on the other side with a 36. So it will give a idea on size and what it would be like to live on the water. Living on the boat is not for everyone and it could be for me. But the wife can do it for a few weeks but being away from her sister's and only coming home once or twice a year was a killer for the deal. I would buy the boat live on it for a summer or 2 on Lake Erie still close to home and see what happens. You can always close up the house from May till September and do a 5-6 month live aboard on Lake Erie. Could be a killer to a marrage if everything you own was sold moved south found out one of you missed family and home anf the other did not. Living on the boat 6 months out of the year sailing and swimming where you are "Top of the food chain" and exploring all of the Great Lakes would be a wondeful trip. Leaving dock and sailing North for 4 months for me would be the coolest thing I could do in my life time. cliffr@sbcglobal.net Cliff H 28.5 "Red Dog"
 
Dec 6, 2003
295
Macgregor 26D Pollock Pines, Ca.
A little more advice

First, let me congratulate you on your choice of retirement plans! As to your question about the best type of boat for your plans, there really is no pat answer. If there were, there'd be a lot fewer companies building boats. I'd suggest starting with getting as much formal instruction as you can and purchasing a smaller boat that you can start practicing on right away. Something in the 26' range is probably a good place to start, as it will be big enough for overnight and weekend trips but not so large as to sail with two inexperienced sailors. Since this boat will be sold after a year or so, get something that's not too expensive. The first boat is like your first bike with training wheels, so don't sweat the little stuff, you'll be getting a 10 speed soon enough. Once you start sailing regularly and taking lessons, you'll have plenty of opportunities to see a plethora of different boats and soon you'll begin to have favorites. Don't worry about finding the right boat, it will find you. Go to as many boat shows as you can and subscribe to a few sailing magazines. 'Sail', 'Cruising World' and 'Latitudes And Attitudes' are three of my favorites. Become a regular at this BB and check-out the archives of the different forums, you'll find a ton of good info. Most of all, have a great time and welcome to the world of sailing! Jeff M. S/V Katrina Marie
 
Dec 5, 2003
204
Hunter 420 Punta Gorda, FL
Buy a house in Florida NOW

We have lived in Florida for 9 years now. The housing prices have over doubled in these few years. Come to Florida for a vacation, find and buy a house now while its more affordable. Move here and buy a boat and start boating. We have a live-aboard boat that we do live on for 2 to 3 months a year, but it sure is nice to come home to dry land with room to stretch out and do other things like golf, etc. Sell out in Ohio and move to Florida full time. Yeah thats what we need, more people in SW Florida. Bill
 
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Tom

Smaller is better

I would strongly recommend that you go slowly in this endeavor. Buying/renting a small apartment in Mobile or Pensacola and buying a Catalina 22 or equivalent. There are many great boats available but some real problem boats too. Just getting use to the heat and humidity of the Gulf Coast is hard enough much less on a boat. A cat 22 in reasonable shape can be had for under $10,000 someimes a lot under. I say a 22 in that it is small enough to learn to sail but has ballast so you won't turn turtle and you can spend a weekend aboard. After you have learned to sail and have experienced a few stormy nights at anchor maybe seen a few alligators and dolphins then you can take it to the next step. If decide that between the snakes,gators sharks and stingrays that you don't like this lifestyle you have a boat that you can keep or sell. But if you have $60,000 in a boat that you can't sell you will have a bigger problem. At my marina there may be more boats for sale than happy owners!!! We just bought a new boat in August a Pearson 323. Bringing it back from Destin to Mobile we had to anchor exposed and had a rough night. A storm at night even at anchor makes for a long night. But I woke up in at about 3 and sat watching the stars and whitecaps and felt great. But then again I've been sailing about 30 years. Even living in Birmingham we find the summer weather in Mobile or Panama city hard to take. When you can go to air conditioning it is better in some ways. But you never get used to the heat if you hide in air conditioned spaces all of the time. We drink a lot. Camping at St joeseph Pennisula state park in Septemeber we were drinking over a gallon/day of water. But can't wait to sail back as Port St Joe is great.
 
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Jerry Clark H356 Persistence

Boat size

I started in 1998 with a new Hunter 260 with wheel steering and fixed keel. Last spring we bought a new 356 with full amenities including generator, air condiitoner and heat, sat tv with KVH tracking antenna, refigeration/freezer, hot/cold water, shower etc. - fully equiped for cruising and for weekend sailing on KY lake. We did not spend much time on the 260 although it had a head and a modest kitchen. It was mostly too hot or cold to stay on comfortably, so we just mostly daysailed. The 356 is actually easier to sail than the 260 because of in-mast furling, autopilot and other features, of course all of that equipment costs about 7.5 times what the 260 did. The 356 can easily be single handed while being large enough to be a good coastal cruiser. The 5' draft is about as deep as one would want on the west Florida coast with some saying 4.5 feet should be the max there. My mast height with all the antenna is slightly over 58 feet. For me that means I have to take down the mast to go to Florida down the Tenn-Tom waterway. Other type rigs have lower masts. There are many tradeoffs to consider. I chose to sail the 260 for 5 years, learn what we really wanted and then bought the boat of my choice and had it equipped to do all we wanted. We are totally satisfied with our decision although some sailing friends of ours would have done things much differently for the money we spent. Do not think that bigger boats are harder - they may or may not be and should be sailed by you to determine difficulty. Good luck on your choice. Remember that only you need be satisfied and you will get every opinion imaginable- many contradictory. sv Persistence H356
 
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Tom

Jerry we love Ky Lake!!!!

We trailered our 22' and then 26" Mac there several times. Spending a week each time. Ky lake seems to me to be the perfect lake to gunkhole!!!! Most places off the main channel are very shallow so we had to crank up the swing keel or pull up the daggerboard most nights. It was especially cool seeing the eagles and having beavers swim around the boat. The coyotes singing at night were totally unexpected. But I would have been terrified with an expensive boat. Too many stumps and rock ledges!!!!!
 
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Rick

size matters

Join a yacht club as a crew member and ask around. Most clubs have members that have a wealth of experience. You'll get a better feel of what sort of lifestyle you want on a boat. I've met cruisers in 18 footers and also first time sailors in a 41 footer. Size depends on your lifestyle and pocketbook. If you want to live like "camping out" on a boat a small one is fine. Many folks do this and are quite happy. If you want a fridge , running water, TV, AC appliances and a large battery bank, that's a different story. As for new versus used - a new one has the advantage of a warranty which might be very helpful to novices, a used one, no matter how good a condition, will have a few surprises which might be costly if you can't find and fix it yourself. ask the old salts at a club - they'll give you lots of advice ( some might be contradictory too ! ).
 
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Don K.

Good Information.

If you want to know anything about boat type, size and living aboard look for books written by Lin & Lary Parday. You will find their books captivating.
 
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Bob

Cross Purposes

You are wanting to do two things that are almost diametrically opposed in what they require of you. It is easy to romanticise the "live aboard" life, and it can indeed be really great, but there are substantial sacrifices to be made in comforts and conveniences that might not be immediately apparent to those who have not tried it. The smaller the boat, the greater the sacrifices. But, since you are new to sailing, you want a boat you can learn on and be safe with. That generally means a smaller boat. As the size goes up, so does the expense and complexity, not to mention the skills and experience necessary to deal with marginal and emergency situations. Learn to sail and do some weekending first - the advice to rent or buy a place is sound. Then you can look at a lot of boats, talk to their owners, buy a smaller one that you can easily resell and get some experience, and a year from now you will know a lot more about what characteristics you want in your home on the water.
 
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Jerry Clark H356 Persistence

Tom - Come back again!

Next time get a chartplotter - maybe a 176C Garmin with the Fishing hotspots - then you will find many places to go on KY Lake. I use the 176c and my Raymarine color chartplotter with C-Map NT+ with sonar when in a shallow cove. Between the two, I have not had any problems YET! Went aground once in my 260 near Birmingham - across from Smith Bay in center of lake back in 1998. Once you know the local area, there are plenty of great places to go! With a Mac - 18" draft, you are pretty much unlimited.
 
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Jim A

If your going to live on a sailboat

IT HAS TO BE BIG! If you don't have the experiance then get it! Take lots of classes and go out with friends. If you don't have sail friends than hang around marinas and meet friends. You find sailor love to talk about sailing! Don't hurry into buying a boat! Take your time and learn as much as you can first! Good Luck! Jim
 
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John Olson

I learned to sail

on aC22 its a fun boat to sail and its cheep to buy and maintain but its small for weekend trips I have aC 30 TR with 3'10" draft and Its easer to sail then the 22' plus you can stay on bord for weeks at a time it holds more water fuel, food ,refer , batterypower wast water.You can live abord (Its not like camping) plus If you want to sell the boat there are plenty of buyers. For $30000 you should get a boat with lots of gear and newer sails .I think you will out grow a small boat in a few months.I think a C30 could last you a few years and prepear you for a larger boat to live aboard fill time.I like a40' to 45' boat to live fulltime but if you will live on land half the time you could get a way with 36' to 38' I like a endevour , morgan ,gulf star, there size range 35' 45' and they are all nice live aboards good luck John Olson
 
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Gerry

It all depends....

It would be difficult for anyone in these forums to tell you exactly what boat would be perfect for you. Only you can decide what layout and performance is best for you and the way you want to live, however we can help you with is the specifics on what to look for in performance. Larger boats are easier to sail in rougher weather but are more expensive to maintain. Wider beams seem to be more stable but slower in speed. If you are not sure whether sailing is your cup of tea yet, join a sailing club where they give lessons and then allow you to rent boats. There is several of clubs where I am at that do that so I’m pretty sure they are all around. This also gives you the opportunity to sail several different makes and sizes of boats to see which sailboat better for you. You also don’t have a lot expense at this point. Go to boat shows, not necessarily to buy but to see what the different layouts are and what features they come out with. I use these shows extensively to give me ideas on what upgrades that I want to do to my boat. Fair Winds Gerry
 
M

MrBill

links:

try this link(s) http://www.sailnet.com/collections/ and search for liveaboard http://www.sailnet.com/collections/articles/index.cfm
 
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tom

get a trawler

A trawler is the perfect live aboard boat for someone not used to sailing. All the comforts of home. Tow a small sailboat and sail around the anchorage. This past weekend met a couple briefly as they were refueling at Dauphin Island ,AL. They had left Maryland in September and planned to be in Houston this week. Very nice trawler and they were doing 130 miles a day. When you start figuring the cost of replacement sails for a 45' sailboat the cost of diesel doesn't seem so high. Plenty of room for the genset to run the ac and frig. Shoal draft so you don't have to worry about that dang keel hitting the bottom.
 
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