I am considering adding an outboard engine as a backup on my Grampian G30. She has a Palmer P-60 inboard which has been fantastic but on rare occasion, I cannot get the Palmer to start and would like to have another engine as a backup for those rare occasions. Generally, after a little minor tinkering, I can get the Palmer started but there are those times where I just don't have the luxury to tinker while at sea so I would really like to have a backup source of propulsion under power. Does anyone have experience adding an outboard to a 30' sailboat? How did you decide on the HP / size? Would an electric trolling motor work for this purpose? I am trying to get away with as little expense and as little additional weight as possible while still adding a reliable and useful tool for those rare occasions where I need alternate propulsion. My intention is primarily to use it for entering and leaving my marina. The harbor master is very, very... extremely... adament that no one travel under sail in his marina... ever. I will thank you in advance and look forward to all the great advice I have come to appreciate from the vocal group here. I am particular interested to hear how to decide on sizing of the engine, thoughts about gas vs. electric, if electric thoughts on appropriate battery sizing and if I am going to need to add additional battery(ies). I really don't want the additional weight but am willing to live with it if necessary. Thanks again. Sincerely, Chip
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A 9.9HP 4 stroke in an appropriate ...
motor mount for the weight. Stay away from electric trolling motors as they will not push you in any kind of wind and current. Have seen motors as large as 15HP but those are being used as primary engines. For cost, weight and performance would go with the 10HP.
motor mount for the weight. Stay away from electric trolling motors as they will not push you in any kind of wind and current. Have seen motors as large as 15HP but those are being used as primary engines. For cost, weight and performance would go with the 10HP.
I'm with Benny on this one.
I'm with benny on this one. I have seen several 30 footers with 9.9's and they seem to do just fine. Anything smaller would probably not give you enough power for control in any kind of wind or current. Pushing with a dink, towing on the hip etc. would be very effective if you have a small army and a lot of room for maneuvering into the slip. The dink thing should be used only in an emergency if there is no other way. It seems like Chip will be using it on a somewhat regular basis. If you look around, you might be surprised at how many diesel engine sailboats have been repowere with the Honda 4 stroke 9.9. Disadvantages for Chip who will only be using it ocassionally would be extra weight on the stern and cost which would probably come out to about 3K with tax and motor mount.Advantages would be a great dinghy motor and also it has enough power to become your main engine if your existing engine should go south on you and most of all...with an outboard you have enough control to dock your boat in a keyhole even with adverse winds and current.
I'm with benny on this one. I have seen several 30 footers with 9.9's and they seem to do just fine. Anything smaller would probably not give you enough power for control in any kind of wind or current. Pushing with a dink, towing on the hip etc. would be very effective if you have a small army and a lot of room for maneuvering into the slip. The dink thing should be used only in an emergency if there is no other way. It seems like Chip will be using it on a somewhat regular basis. If you look around, you might be surprised at how many diesel engine sailboats have been repowere with the Honda 4 stroke 9.9. Disadvantages for Chip who will only be using it ocassionally would be extra weight on the stern and cost which would probably come out to about 3K with tax and motor mount.Advantages would be a great dinghy motor and also it has enough power to become your main engine if your existing engine should go south on you and most of all...with an outboard you have enough control to dock your boat in a keyhole even with adverse winds and current.
Backup engine on a sailboat?
If the inboard is not reliable, why not get it fixed so it becomes reliable? The price of a 9.9 OB would get quite a bit of work done on the existing engine. When the engine does not work the obvious choice is to sail the boat, not add another engine ... what am I missing? Alameda CA? In the years I spend sailing in the bay, not having enough wind to sail home was seldom an issue.
If the inboard is not reliable, why not get it fixed so it becomes reliable? The price of a 9.9 OB would get quite a bit of work done on the existing engine. When the engine does not work the obvious choice is to sail the boat, not add another engine ... what am I missing? Alameda CA? In the years I spend sailing in the bay, not having enough wind to sail home was seldom an issue.
The effort and money you'd put into a outboard...
could be well spent referbushing your Palmer P-60. How about finding a used diesel on the internet? I don't hear the name Grampian much anymore...good luck.
could be well spent referbushing your Palmer P-60. How about finding a used diesel on the internet? I don't hear the name Grampian much anymore...good luck.
Moody...how about docking?
His original post said..."The harbor master is very, very... extremely... adament that no one travel under sail in his marina... ever."
His original post said..."The harbor master is very, very... extremely... adament that no one travel under sail in his marina... ever."
Docking?
If I was in a situation that required a reliable engine, I would make darn sure that engine is reliable. It is my opinion that adding an outboard engine as a back-up on a sailboat is a poor choice. The boat will not sail as well with the extra weight hanging off the transom. I would not pay that price for "on rare occasion, I cannot get the Palmer to start ..." As I said before, it seems to me that the Palmer could be made reliable for far less money that the cost of a proper OB installation. Since the no-start is "on rare occasion", there is always the option of tossing the hook out while you get the cranky beast running. I suspect that the no-start is more often than rarely, I can't imagine wanting a back-up engine for a situation that happens once or twice a year.
If I was in a situation that required a reliable engine, I would make darn sure that engine is reliable. It is my opinion that adding an outboard engine as a back-up on a sailboat is a poor choice. The boat will not sail as well with the extra weight hanging off the transom. I would not pay that price for "on rare occasion, I cannot get the Palmer to start ..." As I said before, it seems to me that the Palmer could be made reliable for far less money that the cost of a proper OB installation. Since the no-start is "on rare occasion", there is always the option of tossing the hook out while you get the cranky beast running. I suspect that the no-start is more often than rarely, I can't imagine wanting a back-up engine for a situation that happens once or twice a year.
Ol Faithful...
While Moody sounds like he's on the right track here, no engine is 100% reliable not even a Caterpiller. He is right about Alameda, 95% of the time the wind is blowing DOWN the Estuary and bringing you home to your slip. My friend at the Oakland Yacht Club always sails 'back' into his slip after powering out to the slot. I suspect you are NOT on the Estuary, but maybe Bollenas Bay on the opposite side of the Island where they are quite fragile and picky... With a good bracket and some practice you can splash an inflatable, raft it, hook on your outboard from a handy-billy ( I used my main halyard)give power form the 8 h.p. outboard and steer from the mother ship. I have towed hundreds of times using this system (single handed too) and it works much better than expected. It is actually a 'Tug-tactic' ...;-)
While Moody sounds like he's on the right track here, no engine is 100% reliable not even a Caterpiller. He is right about Alameda, 95% of the time the wind is blowing DOWN the Estuary and bringing you home to your slip. My friend at the Oakland Yacht Club always sails 'back' into his slip after powering out to the slot. I suspect you are NOT on the Estuary, but maybe Bollenas Bay on the opposite side of the Island where they are quite fragile and picky... With a good bracket and some practice you can splash an inflatable, raft it, hook on your outboard from a handy-billy ( I used my main halyard)give power form the 8 h.p. outboard and steer from the mother ship. I have towed hundreds of times using this system (single handed too) and it works much better than expected. It is actually a 'Tug-tactic' ...;-)
If it doesn't work, what's it doing there?
Chip, We're in Alameda, too. We have a Westerbeke M25 21 hp 3 cylinder engine. I put off buying larger boat (C25 for 11 years with a 7.5 hp outboard) because I 'feared the devil diesels. We finally got smart and moved up in 1998. I learned how a diesel works. From our 2004 California Delta Cruise log and story: Engine Starting Tricks After personally checking out the sunrises the prior few days, I slept in late Friday morning until 0830. We were ready to go at noon, but for the first time ever the engine wouldn’t start. The fuel pump was working, but there was absolutely NO reaction from the starter solenoid. I had studied the technical issues about our boats, thanks to the great C34 website. I said, “I know exactly what it is, we’ll be out of here in 30 minutes.” After 18 years the fuse holder between the starter button and the starter solenoid had completely disintegrated. I got a new fuse holder out of our electrical supplies, rewired the connection and off we went, at 1231, to our next destination - Lost Slough. So, Chip, learn it, run it, fix it and make it work. Besides, if you install a new alternator and regulator, you can stay out longer because you'll be able to charge your batteries!!! Stu
Chip, We're in Alameda, too. We have a Westerbeke M25 21 hp 3 cylinder engine. I put off buying larger boat (C25 for 11 years with a 7.5 hp outboard) because I 'feared the devil diesels. We finally got smart and moved up in 1998. I learned how a diesel works. From our 2004 California Delta Cruise log and story: Engine Starting Tricks After personally checking out the sunrises the prior few days, I slept in late Friday morning until 0830. We were ready to go at noon, but for the first time ever the engine wouldn’t start. The fuel pump was working, but there was absolutely NO reaction from the starter solenoid. I had studied the technical issues about our boats, thanks to the great C34 website. I said, “I know exactly what it is, we’ll be out of here in 30 minutes.” After 18 years the fuse holder between the starter button and the starter solenoid had completely disintegrated. I got a new fuse holder out of our electrical supplies, rewired the connection and off we went, at 1231, to our next destination - Lost Slough. So, Chip, learn it, run it, fix it and make it work. Besides, if you install a new alternator and regulator, you can stay out longer because you'll be able to charge your batteries!!! Stu
sign up for sea tow
For a hundred bucks a year you can get them to tow you in your slip on those rare occasions, or from somewhere eslse if you need it. or get it fixed. something is just not right. or ask the marina owner to motor out and tow you in!
For a hundred bucks a year you can get them to tow you in your slip on those rare occasions, or from somewhere eslse if you need it. or get it fixed. something is just not right. or ask the marina owner to motor out and tow you in!
I gotta go along with...
...the 'fixit' crowd. Having a spare tire, or an extra V belt in the trunk is one thing. But a spare ENGINE? What Moody said, "the obvious choice is to sail the boat". Your harbor master has no say in you 'sailing' your boat. His authority stops at 'how' you sail it, not 'where'. In the mean time, I would get to the bottom of fixin' the old power plant. It shouldn't be that difficult to diagnose and repair. If you need a few pointers, I'm sure you'll find more than a few on this site with advice.
...the 'fixit' crowd. Having a spare tire, or an extra V belt in the trunk is one thing. But a spare ENGINE? What Moody said, "the obvious choice is to sail the boat". Your harbor master has no say in you 'sailing' your boat. His authority stops at 'how' you sail it, not 'where'. In the mean time, I would get to the bottom of fixin' the old power plant. It shouldn't be that difficult to diagnose and repair. If you need a few pointers, I'm sure you'll find more than a few on this site with advice.
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