I own a Beneteau 323 and it is time for new sails. My boat came with a 116% headsail and I am thinking about replacing it with a larger sail. The question is how much larger a headsail can I mount on the boat given the fact that the sail sheets inside the shroud base and I do not want to replace the factory tracks for the genoa cars. Any input about this issue?
NE
- Thread starter new323owner
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A very illuminating and interesting discussion on co.com for those of you who might be in the market for a new jib.
http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=155362
Please read all three pages. Enjoy.
http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=155362
Please read all three pages. Enjoy.
Define the sail plan of your boat. Newer designs have gone to larger roach mainsails to power the boats and the use of a working jib to balance the rig. Older designs powered the boats with large Genoas and high aspect mainsails for balance. Running a larger sail outside the shrouds may result in a loss of pointing ability. Getting an asymmetrical spinnaker for low wind conditions might be a better option. In most of the newer designs they have changed the shape of the hulls and repositioned the masts and adjusted the sail plans to best service the new configurations.
Not much sense in getting a bigger jib in my opinion. You cannot sheet it in tight because the shrouds are outboard and anchored at the toerail. The sailplan is such that the boat relies more on the main for power. The boat itself is relatively tender as well, and a bigger jib would tend to overpower it as wind increases. Frequently, the boat is more likely to want the working jib and a reef in the main. As Ron stated, a gennaker is probably a better choice in light air, and I have found that to be true as well.
Stu, thanks for the reference. It a good general discussion of the uses of different sizes of headsails. My question is a more limited one.
Benny, thanks for your inputs. My main is is a furling main; thus no roach. As I noted, I do not want to run sheets outside of shrouds. I have an as symmetrical spinnaker. I was thinking about only a slightly larger sail, like a 120% instead of the 116%. I agree with your last statement. Thanks again for your thoughtful reply
Ron, I have contacted sail lofts for quotes, but not about this specific issue. I wanted to get other opinions about this issue.
Doug, your points are well-taken. I am only exploring substituting a slightly larger sail in light of the design of the boat
Kings Gambit,
I am not terribly unhappy with the 116%. It's just that with a relatively small (furking) main, I thought that a slightly larger headsail (it cannot be much larger given the design of the boat) might give me a bit more power without overpowering what is a tender boat to start with
I am not terribly unhappy with the 116%. It's just that with a relatively small (furking) main, I thought that a slightly larger headsail (it cannot be much larger given the design of the boat) might give me a bit more power without overpowering what is a tender boat to start with
Have you seen this?
"The sailing performance of the Beneteau 323 is a bit of a mixed blessing. By my calculations, sail area/displacement ratio is 19.6 and displacement/length ratio is 168. With these numbers it is not surprising that the 323 is an excellent light air performer. On the other hand, the ballast is only 26% of total displacement and even though the VCG (vertical center of gravity) is lowered with the modified-bulb keel, it not surprising that she is also reported to be a bit tender. Her broad beam and wide transom make it more important that she be sailed flat - like the big dinghy she resembles."
http://www.boatus.com/boatreviews/sail/Beneteau323.asp
"The sailing performance of the Beneteau 323 is a bit of a mixed blessing. By my calculations, sail area/displacement ratio is 19.6 and displacement/length ratio is 168. With these numbers it is not surprising that the 323 is an excellent light air performer. On the other hand, the ballast is only 26% of total displacement and even though the VCG (vertical center of gravity) is lowered with the modified-bulb keel, it not surprising that she is also reported to be a bit tender. Her broad beam and wide transom make it more important that she be sailed flat - like the big dinghy she resembles."
http://www.boatus.com/boatreviews/sail/Beneteau323.asp
King's Gambit,
Thanks for taking the time to look up a review on the boat. I have read this review as well as several other reviews that I could find near the time that the boat was introduced (2004). I agree that the boat is a bit tender. That is why I do no want to get too large a genoa. The one that I do purchase will certainly have a foam luff so that it can be furled when necessary. I also agree that the boat needs to be sailed flat. It doesn't take much wind to increase its heel.
I have contacted several sail lofts about new sails. While I specifically mentioned that the current headsail is a 116%, some of the quotes were for larger sails. That is why I posted my query...I want to know the range of appropriate sails for the boat before I decide which size to get.
Thanks for taking the time to look up a review on the boat. I have read this review as well as several other reviews that I could find near the time that the boat was introduced (2004). I agree that the boat is a bit tender. That is why I do no want to get too large a genoa. The one that I do purchase will certainly have a foam luff so that it can be furled when necessary. I also agree that the boat needs to be sailed flat. It doesn't take much wind to increase its heel.
I have contacted several sail lofts about new sails. While I specifically mentioned that the current headsail is a 116%, some of the quotes were for larger sails. That is why I posted my query...I want to know the range of appropriate sails for the boat before I decide which size to get.
On boats with outboard shrouds, the headsail size is limited by the leech hitting the spreaders and/or diagional shrouds. Normally this happens around 110%, plus or minus 5, depending on the boat. You sometimes CAN go slightly bigger than your existing sail, but you WILL NEED to have a sailmaker involved to precisely measure, design, and cut the new sail. You need to keep the sail off the rig.
No one here can help (except maybe Bob from NP); because even if you know a workable LP, it's ALL in the design.
Headsails are normally cut with negative roach (hollow) to keep the leech from fluttering; having your new sail designed with less/zero hollow and vertical battens can often add several square feet.
In any case the increase will be small, and most noticeable on performance boats sailed by performance minded sailors. Everyone else will get bigger bang for their buck with a Code 0 or a reaching sym.
No one here can help (except maybe Bob from NP); because even if you know a workable LP, it's ALL in the design.
Headsails are normally cut with negative roach (hollow) to keep the leech from fluttering; having your new sail designed with less/zero hollow and vertical battens can often add several square feet.
In any case the increase will be small, and most noticeable on performance boats sailed by performance minded sailors. Everyone else will get bigger bang for their buck with a Code 0 or a reaching sym.
Jack,
That is just the explanation that I needed to hear. I suspected that the headsail's size was probably influenced by, among other things, the way the boat's standing rigging was configured, I just wasn't sure just why the boat came equipped with the size of sail that it did. Some of the quotes that I have received from sail makers offered larger (and even much larger) sails despite the fact that I had asked for a quote for a 116% sail (since that was the size of the headsail with which it came). Those quotes motivated my posting about the appropriate size for a headsail for the boat. Now I know thanks to you.
That is just the explanation that I needed to hear. I suspected that the headsail's size was probably influenced by, among other things, the way the boat's standing rigging was configured, I just wasn't sure just why the boat came equipped with the size of sail that it did. Some of the quotes that I have received from sail makers offered larger (and even much larger) sails despite the fact that I had asked for a quote for a 116% sail (since that was the size of the headsail with which it came). Those quotes motivated my posting about the appropriate size for a headsail for the boat. Now I know thanks to you.
You're welcome. Sometimes sailmakers will give you a quote for say a 135%, without even knowing or recognizing that your boat has outboard shrouds It's just bad deal.
I recommend that you never have a sail cut for a boat with non-overlapping headsails unless they actually measure. It's the only way you can make sure it's going to stay out of the rain
I recommend that you never have a sail cut for a boat with non-overlapping headsails unless they actually measure. It's the only way you can make sure it's going to stay out of the rain
[QUOTE="new323owner...116% sail (since that was the size of the headsail with which it came). Those quotes motivated my posting about the appropriate size for a headsail for the boat. Now I know thanks to you.[/QUOTE]
Last week I saw the 116 sails are available from Beneteau's spareparts site for less than 900.
Last week I saw the 116 sails are available from Beneteau's spareparts site for less than 900.