Navy and AIS?

Gunni

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Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
That same chain of command is supposed to work effectively to prevent the CO from being distracted by his team navigation and sensing analysis. As in any team situation the effectiveness is dependent upon the capability of his officer team and the bridge crew skills. The management structure is designed to provide the highest ability to fight, navigate, and manage damage.
 
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Nov 26, 2012
2,315
Catalina 250 Bodega Bay CA
No DL that is definitely not possible. As Gunni pointed out , you have the OOD (Officer on deck or officer of the day) in command in the pilot house. As I stated, those headsets the port and starboard lookouts are constantly wearing are directly hooked to an amplifier/speakers in pilot house and OOD hears your alarm IMMEDIATELY. There is no go between! Chief
 
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jviss

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Feb 5, 2004
6,745
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
It's very sad, what has been happening. It's sad and tragic for the families, of course, and quite unsettling for those who had the highest degree of respect and trust in the US Navy. I'm disillusioned. We rarely see US Navy vessels where I cruise, but when I do, now, I will keep an eye on them and keep well clear.
 
Oct 22, 2014
20,992
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
JV... If you cruise in US Waters where Naval Vessles are operating, you are likely to see and hear Coast Guard telling you to stay clear. See it all the time out of Everett and in the Sound.
 

jviss

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Feb 5, 2004
6,745
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
Yes, John, generally you would, but I've seen groups cruise across Rhode Island Sound without any USCG announcement or warning. We hear from the USCG when the USN is conducting some kind of operation.
 
Oct 22, 2014
20,992
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
I usually see the CG when the ships are getting underway. CG and the local patrol boats (they just come up on you at high speed and shoe you away).

Once they get underway the ships steam just about where ever they want. Even the Washington State Ferrys will delay to let the ship clear their route. They steam the Traffic Control lanes with everyone. Usually when there is minimal traffic. The CG keeps an eye out for them till they get to open water where they have more maneuvering area. They can kick up a bit of a wake.
 

capta

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Jun 4, 2009
4,766
Pearson 530 Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
Well to be fair to the USN they have more to do than a merchant.
Interesting thought, but in reality nothing should take precedence over the safety of the vessel and her crew, merchant or military.
However, the fallacy of your statement is that the military vessel may have 20 or more times the crew aboard than a commercial merchant vessel. That should be more than enough personnel to do whatever else may be needed above and beyond insuring the safety of the vessel and her crew aboard the military vessel, don't you think?
Traditionally, the US Navy has is habitually non-professional, as shown such incidents as the The Honda Point disaster, the Ehime Maru/USS Greeneville calamity, hitting bridges and groundings (USS Guardian) and way too many others to list. It's nothing new and apparently the modern electronic aids to navigation have not helped very much.
Perhaps naval deck officers should be graduates of a merchant mariner's academy with a stronger focus on seamanship, rather than the naval academy with all it's fancy uniforms and rituals.
 
Jan 22, 2008
8,050
Beneteau 323 Annapolis MD
I wonder if they had their "proof of insurance" cards with them ???
 
Nov 22, 2011
1,192
Ericson 26-2 San Pedro, CA
Yes, you should have an AIS transceiver and preferably have it overlay your chart plotter. But AIS is not secure and has known vulnerabilities, so it should only be another point of reference for figuring out what is going on. The new multi frequency, low power radars are a great add but you have to practice on them. You still stand a watch, and if you have any questions AIS can be a great source for call sign to contact the bridge of another ship. Having said that I have never received a radio response from a Navy vessel. Even the trainers that putt out of Annapolis. I have seen them alter course, but there was no acknowledgement. It was always my impression that with a significant bridge crew and multiple layers of command the OOD was calling the course and keeping us apart.
In Southern California one frequently hears Navy vessels in VHF contact with both pleasure and commercial vessels , especially on San Diego and around San Clemente Island.
 

Gunni

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Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
We get a securite' from the CG on 16 when the Navy is moving or otherwise active. Another good reason to be monitoring VHF CH16. I did stumble into the strike range at Pax River one time and some very nice gentlemen came out from Range Control to get me squared away.
 
Jan 11, 2014
11,321
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
No DL that is definitely not possible. As Gunni pointed out , you have the OOD (Officer on deck or officer of the day) in command in the pilot house. As I stated, those headsets the port and starboard lookouts are constantly wearing are directly hooked to an amplifier/speakers in pilot house and OOD hears your alarm IMMEDIATELY. There is no go between! Chief
Thanks Gunni and RA for the insight.
 
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Oct 22, 2014
20,992
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
Honda Point disaster,
Really Capta, your quoting an event that happened in 1923 as a reason to degrade the professionalism of the US Navy. Do you even know about the incident? While other ships are port bound the Navy sails. Living on the edge means events can occur. Where others abandon their ship the US Navy is trained to do effective damage control and keep the ship afloat. This was the case in the Honda Point incident.

Yes, Merchant Mariners are fine sailors, but they are not better Mariners than US Naval Officers, Non Commissioned Officer or the Navy Seaman. Certainly not better qualified to do what graduates of the US Naval Academy are tasked.
 
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May 17, 2004
5,028
Beneteau Oceanis 37 Havre de Grace
Interesting thought, but in reality nothing should take precedence over the safety of the vessel and her crew, merchant or military.
However, the fallacy of your statement is that the military vessel may have 20 or more times the crew aboard than a commercial merchant vessel. That should be more than enough personnel to do whatever else may be needed above and beyond insuring the safety of the vessel and her crew aboard the military vessel, don't you think?
Traditionally, the US Navy has is habitually non-professional, as shown such incidents as the The Honda Point disaster, the Ehime Maru/USS Greeneville calamity, hitting bridges and groundings (USS Guardian) and way too many others to list. It's nothing new and apparently the modern electronic aids to navigation have not helped very much.
Perhaps naval deck officers should be graduates of a merchant mariner's academy with a stronger focus on seamanship, rather than the naval academy with all it's fancy uniforms and rituals.
Well, it's not like there are any examples of commercial ships causing problems, right?
 
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Nov 26, 2012
2,315
Catalina 250 Bodega Bay CA
This kind of negative comments only attests to the fact that they really have no clue about what they assert. A Mercant seaman will think he is superior to a Naval Officer just out of jealousy. Chief
 
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Nov 26, 2012
2,315
Catalina 250 Bodega Bay CA
Another thing that is being incorrectly slammed is the fact that not only do our Marine and Navy Cadets get tons of seamanship schooling they get lots of on the job training every summer. We got them on board the USS Kidd every summer for shipboard training and experience. School and hands on all year around for 4 years. I don't know much about Merchant Marine training but I suspect they don't get more training and education than our officers. Chief
 
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capta

.
Jun 4, 2009
4,766
Pearson 530 Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
Really Capta, your quoting an event that happened in 1923 as a reason to degrade the professionalism of the US Navy. Do you even know about the incident? While other ships are port bound the Navy sails. Living on the edge means events can occur. Where others abandon their ship the US Navy is trained to do effective damage control and keep the ship afloat. This was the case in the Honda Point incident.

Yes, Merchant Mariners are fine sailors, but they are not better Mariners than US Naval Officers, Non Commissioned Officer or the Navy Seaman. Certainly not better qualified to do what graduates of the US Naval Academy are tasked.
There have been three apparent incidents of complete incompetence in as many months.
Merchant sailors also do damage control and firefighting. You can't get a ticket above 200 tons without that certificate, in the USCG system.
I do not agree with you that the quality of the seamanship of naval officers is equal to that of the merchant mariners. Just by virtue of the structure differences between the two systems, merchant mariners have to be better at their profession. They can't advance just because of their time served or a test. There are thousands of licensed masters sailing in lesser positions because they just don't make the grade in the extreme competition of the merchant marine, no matter their length of service.
To the best of my knowledge, there have not been three serious collisions of US flagged merchant vessels in as many months, yet there are many times more US flagged merchant vessels at sea at any given time, than there are US military vessels.
 

capta

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Jun 4, 2009
4,766
Pearson 530 Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
This kind of negative comments only attests to the fact that they really have no clue about what they assert. A Mercant seaman will think he is superior to a Naval Officer just out of jealousy. Chief
Oh please!
Jealous of what? Always sailing under orders with all the responsibility and none of the command alternatives?
 

capta

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Jun 4, 2009
4,766
Pearson 530 Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
Well, it's not like there are any examples of commercial ships causing problems, right?
We are discussing the three apparent incidents of gross incompetence by US Navy vessels in as many months, are we not?
To the best of my knowledge, there have not been three serious collisions (or even one?) of US flagged merchant vessels in the same time period, yet there are many times more US flagged merchant vessels at sea at any given time than there are US military vessels. Perhaps that is a fact that you may have overlooked?
 
Oct 2, 2008
3,807
Pearson/ 530 Strafford, NH
If I may ask a question, during the last six years we have had our AIS spike across the chart plotter in several locations. We were in Maine and it momentarily gave our position on an island. The same sort of thing in Norfolk and Miami while passing large merchant ships. Would it be possible then to have enough interference on the AIS band-width to make it unreliable?

We've also had difficulty at times with the amount of time it takes for AIS to refresh positions on our chart plotter. The boat icons would jump in segments instead of smoothly moving around us.

The third issue we have experienced with AIS is while following a target and having it reverse on screen momentarily while I visually saw no change of direction. At night with our radar running this would get a little confusing since the two targets on the chart plotter overlay would then indicate different vectors.

I don't know what causes all this on my unit, but to answer the original post AIS has some quirks, at least mine does. Has anyone else had these occurrences?

All U Get
 
Nov 26, 2012
2,315
Catalina 250 Bodega Bay CA
The Academy uses Luger 44 sailboats to train the cadets as well as they are crew for many of the tall ships each year plus the training each summer on our fleet vessels. Seamanship and navigation are emphasized.
Oh! Does anyone remember the Valdez incident? Don't think US Navy was involved!
Chief
 
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