Navigation Systems - Ipad?

[quadrille38]

I've been contemplating getting a chart plotter to add to my Raymarine system. As I look at the cost of those systems, I have begun to wonder if an ipad running iNavx would do the job for a lot less cost.

I've been reading lots of postings and pros seem to be much lower cost, ability to pull current charts right from the internet with no card required, better size, and ability to use for other purposes.

Cons seem to be not water proof (would required case), and ipad issue of viewing in bright sunlight. There is an app to allow for AIS system but you must have wifit or cell service for it. Digimarine makes a unit that accommodates for that.

Wondering if anyone is using ipad and if you have any feedback on it?
Quality of positioning data, ease of use, or anything else that would help me decide.

 

[abrownsmith]

I have also thought about using an iPad too seems to be a lot of gadgets all rolled up into one. I use my iPhone now and like the Navx app.

 

[inarathree]

Depends on how accurate of a GPS you need. I use my iPad for my navigation. I use the Navionics app on it. But the accuracy of the GPS is sometimes really good, and sometimes off by quite a bit, but in my area, it doesnt matter that much.

There are waterproof bags for the iPad, but double bagging in gallon freezer ziplocks do the trick. Although I dont do that too often anymore. My iPad is in a case, that stands up, and which i spring clamp to the table. I can see it clearly from the cockpit, but I only have a H22. In bright sun, it is difficult to read, not quite as bad as an iPhone.

I didnt buy it for the boat, but it comes with me every trip. It does also provide other advantages like movies for the night, and music.

 

[Sailgunner]

I have an old Raymarine monochome radar/chartplotter and rather than consider thousands to upgrade/replace my system I am going to buy an Ipad or Android pad as a backup/color charts.

 

[dparilla]

I personally don't recommend using an ipad or tablet as your primary gps device. The tracking capability is greatly reduced at sea versus on highways, and even on inland waters there are frequent spots of lost coverage where even with a good gps fix, you will not get a position report due to network loss. I have a motorola xoom that I use for planning etc, but it is not the primary fixing source on board. I leave that to a garmin 3205 and a backup old gps 5 that can both drive the nav systems on board. Here on the potomac, the garmin refresh always beats the xooms. Ditto for my buddies ipad 2. I personally would never bet the boat on any device for which the gps is an ancillary function. Makes a nice backup, but to me, it is always the backup.

 

[scottdube]

I personally don't recommend using an ipad or tablet as your primary gps device. The tracking capability is greatly reduced at sea versus on highways, and even on inland waters there are frequent spots of lost coverage where even with a good gps fix, you will not get a position report due to network loss.

Dan what do you mean network loss? The Ipad has it's own gps and does not rely on cell phone triangulation assuming you purchase the 3g version. Not sure about Ipad 2 but my original version works well with no sim card or wifi connection...

I'm not sure I would use it as my primary nav system but it's really about a combination of systems anyway as they're all vulnerable.

Scott

 

[dparilla]

Without a cellular network, the ipad may not let the GPS function work. We tried to use one when overseas, but since we were not on a network, it had issues. We were able to finally get it to work, but the maps would not display correctly without cell service. So if only a fixing source, sans chart plotter, it is capable as a backup, but if the goal is the moving map display, if you are outside of cell coverage, you may be out of luck. I played around with the navionics maps today, and they work well, but I had to remember to turn off network aiding for position or else Verizon kept trying to put me on a road.

 

[scottdube]

Dan what model ipad do you have? My 64GB 3G unit worked flawlessly in the BVI. No cell signal as I don't have a sim card and no wifi connection, moving map worked very well. Again the moving map/gps does not depend on a cell signal on my unit.

Scott

 

[inarathree]

An iPad uses a aGPS where it tries to use cell signals first to quickly give a position, then switches over to GPS when satellite signals are acquired. I use a third party GPS receiver on my iPad, which works well, although can take several minutes to acquire a signal. Once acquired it does work pretty well. Once again, I wouldnt use it as a primary GPS where pinpoint accuracy is paramount. But for me, where close enough is good enough, my iPad is a great alternative.

 

[quadrille38]

Thanks all - appreciate the insights

 

[jconnor3]

I have both the Ipad and the Android. Each has a good point on its side but both work well for me. I am more of a weekend sailor and stay inside alot. If I were a blue water guy I cannot recommend just these. If my life is at stake I want that tried and true chart plotter than has brought a lot of us home. When it comes to safety and I do consider this a critical aspect of safety I really would not cut any corners. 100,000 sailors can't be wrong.

 

[Bill Roosa]

Inathree has it correct. Your GPS is one of those 3 channel (three sats only) models and uses the network to give an initial GPS fix. In the celestial nav world this would be equlivelent to a estimated DR to start up the calculation. If it does not have a network connection it basicly does a cold boot which can take some time. since you are not looking at lots of satellietes you can also get triangulation (badly cocked hat) solutions from time to time depending on where the sats are at the time. Also since you are not tracking enough sats when you loose one it has to go find another, download the ephemerst and do a new calculation with the new data.
Bet you didn't know your phone is talking to strange cell towers about where their home is did you?

 

[quadrille38]

From my reading and all the input, it is sounding like a better plan is to get a gps receiver and a Digital marine wireless device that can feed the iPad and then use the pad as a display only. That way I'd have gps with a 12 channel receiver. The iPad gps becomes back up

 

[red_dolphin]

iAIS receiver

I'm looking at the Data-Yacht iAIS receiver as a way to

• Receive AIS signals from near-by ships
• Transmit that data via built-in WiFi to iPad and iPhone apps
• Capture and pass-on my vessel's NMEA183 data.
• Link to PC-based charting software using a USB connection.

As for 'accurate' GPS input, it looks like I could use a handheld Garmin GPS for the PC-based side, or use the vessel's GPS data that was available through NMEA183.
The handheld GPS link to the charting software seems to me to be a separate issue.

This looks like a great way to back-up a chartplotter, or to bring a portable system aboard for a delivery.

So, what's wrong with this picture?

What am I not seeing?

 

[eliems]

A friend just mentioned today that he bought this GPS attachment for his Ipad to work with Nav ... http://bad-elf.com/products/gps/ . Supposed to be reliable and accurate.

I am considering buying it my self, ($100).

 

[Bill Roosa]

What you are missing red_dolphin is the cost and complexity. A GPS and AIS capable VHF combo is what you are looking for if I'm reading your post right. If you are only using the pad to display I'm not sure why you would even want to do that as you already have computer nav software running. It is not like you are going to use the thing to do "heads down" docking. I've found that if you stay hydrated (sic) you will make enough trips getting more liquid and turning it back in to keep an eye on the computer.
I'd recommend buying one brand so everything works together out of the box and then it is just a matter of cabling the GPS to the computer via a NMEA interface. This solution is also weather resistant so you avoid replacement costs of other solutions over time.
With GPS/VHF you get
a radio that you can get help on with the touch of a button
AIS reports to your nav softare and also report your own AIS info to the world
all the GPS related data to your nav software
a weather resistant solution
you don't get
a handheld chartplotter at the helm
a lot of current draw from the non-marine grade components
a solution that will probably fail in short order due to water and salt air

 

[red_dolphin]

What you are missing red_dolphin is the cost and complexity. A GPS and AIS capable VHF combo is what you are looking for if I'm reading your post right....

Touché! I do tend to make things overly complex.
Some of my friends say I would never shave if I had to use Occam's Razor to do it.

We actually have an AIS-capable VHF with links to GPS input installed at the Nav-station.
But this is not tied into the 2002-vintage chart-plotter/radar display.
I think I have some manuals to read and some help-desks to call the understand why.

Also, I need to learn more about the nuts and bolts of NMEA.
Any thoughts on where I should look for that information?

Bill, thanks for your help.

RED

 

[Pheidingsfelder]

On the iPad built in GPS receiver, what about a bluetooth GPS 'puck'? They make really decent ones for relatively low cost ~$30
Also good, as in my case, if you got the WIFI only model unknowingly with no GPS!