Navigation electronics for a trailer sailor

dlochner · Aug 7, 2022

There are 3 major manufacturers, Raymarine, Garmin, and the Novice brands (B&G, Simrad, Lawrence). Prices for electronics are pretty tightly controlled by the manufacturers, vendor cost isn't a big issue. I was helping a guy with this decision a few years ago and had a look at similar systems priced from West Marine and Defender, there was not much difference between the two.

Start by looking at the manufacturer's websites. For a sailboat use the B&G site for the Novice brands. Simrad is marketed towards power boats, Lawrence towards the fishing community and B&G towards the sailing community.

Then take a trip to the nearest place to see the chart plotters in action and to see how the different screen sizes compare.

My preference is for B&G electronics. They have a long history of supporting the sailing community.

dlochner · Aug 7, 2022

kendyoozed said:
I like the B&G. I do worry about the transducer sticking so far down from the hull since I will be trailering this boat. I would hate to knock it off. I like that you can use Navionics with the B&G chartplotters.
More research…..

If you use one of the sonar forward seeking depth sounder then it will protrude a bit from the hull. Standard speed/depth/temp transducers are flush with the hull and can be removed for trailering or cleaning.

dlochner · Aug 7, 2022

No. it sticks out .20 inches. See the tech specs.

AIRMAR

dLj · Aug 7, 2022

kendyoozed said:
I have a a Macgregor 26D I am doing an intensive refit. I am getting to the stage or researching for navigation instruments. Things i would like to have is:
1. I want a chart plotter that I can make my route on a tablet and then send to my chart plotter
2. to be able to mirror my chart plotter on my tablet so I can see what's on my chart plotter while below...ie at night on anchor
3.to be able to incorporate a tiller pilot
4. to have wind readings
5. to have depth and speed
6. I would like to keep this all in one display instead of having several smaller ones.
7. to have a digital compass so i don't have to mount a bulkhead one. Yes I will have a backup compass
8. NMEA system

What manufactures should I be looking to, and what vendors? I would love to be able to talk to someone and make sure what I need/ want is what i get.

Well, your boat, your choice - but just wondering, why do you want all this on that boat?

dj

BarryL · Aug 7, 2022

Hi,

Since you mentioned tiller pilorr, I am only familiar with pilots from raymarine and Simrad (simrad is part of navico group, which includes B&G). B&G gear meets your other requirements (tablet connnection , etc).

take a look at both raymarine and b&g

barry

rgranger · Aug 7, 2022

I've done a lot of coastal crusing on a Mac 22 and on a Hunter 26. In the early days, the handheld gps was all I had as a backup (and I used paper charts and a compass). But I have gotten really spoiled by having a chart plotter. But I just use Navionics on my phone (and still keep a handheld gps for a backup). I'm not judging your instrument wants but bring this up to offer an alternative.

Instead of a chartplotter that talks to your tablet, why not get two tablets and mount one at the helm. Load it with Navionics, Windy, Savvy Navy, Passage Weather (or something similar). And you did not mention RADAR. That is something high on my wish list and will be added to my next sailboat. Getting caught in the fog without radar SUCKS. If you get an apple tablet, Furuno makes a wireless radar dome that talks to iSO.

I can get cell service about 2 miles off shore and I've read many posts where people have added cell antenna and extended their range to 5 miles.

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As far as depth goes, any standard depth finder would work and you have a retractable keels so why go with a high end depth finder?

Ward H · Aug 8, 2022

Raymarine will fit all of your requirements. I run Navionics on my Axiom CP, mirror the Axiom CP screen to my iPad and can control the Axiom from the iPad. I can plan routes on the iPad and synch with the Axiom.
While Raymarine is behind B &G with sailing features they have made some improvements.

I chose Raymarine as I wanted to be sure I had the cleanest integration between the RM auto pilot, RM CP and other MFD displays.
I believe the RM SeaTalkng network system is more user friendly to install than a standard NEMA2000 system and it still allows NEMA2000 devices to be connected.

thinwater · Aug 8, 2022

Honestly, the only thing I use the GPS for is curiosity about speed. Some days I don't turn the electronics on. As a singlehander, the most important item to me is the tiller pilot, but if it just runs on compass bearing, that is sufficient. If my current boat had not come with a plotter (very old) I would just be running Navionics on a tablet. I can't imagine why I would make a route; this isn't a freighter.

I prefer a bulkhead compass to a digital one. When a small boat is yawing digital is just annoying.

scottscotty · Aug 8, 2022

following intently....

dlochner · Aug 8, 2022

thinwater said:
Honestly, the only thing I use the GPS for is curiosity about speed. Some days I don't turn the electronics on. As a singlehander, the most important item to me is the tiller pilot, but if it just runs on compass bearing, that is sufficient. If my current boat had not come with a plotter (very old) I would just be running Navionics on a tablet. I can't imagine why I would make a route; this isn't a freighter.

I prefer a bulkhead compass to a digital one. When a small boat is yawing digital is just annoying.

There is lots to be said for the minimalist approach to sailing instruments. Many of us started sailing with just a compass and a windex. Electronic instruments can be a distraction and can build dependency, what happens when the system goes?

With that said, Second Star is pretty gizmo'd up with AIS, chartplotters, radar, AP, and wind/speed/depth instruments. Over the past year almost all of them failed for one reason or another and I was back to sailing like the old days with my head out of the cockpit, looking at the water and feeling the wind.

The route planning features on the latest plotters and apps are nice and useful estimating time and distance, but I would never rely on them to set the course for the AP. They just aren't that reliable. Over on another thread (On the East River in NYC) one member related how his plotter routed him under a bridge that was too low for his mast. I have also routings that add unnecessary time and distance to the route.

It's nice to have the devices, however they are no substitute for being able to estimate wind speed by looking at the water or following a channel by reading a chart and seeing the markers. The AP computers and the AWS calculators need precise compass headings, human helms person are better without that data. Trying to follow a heading on a digital compass will lead to oversteering which slows the boat down. It is far more seamanlike to learn to steer to the wind and recognize when the wind has shifted enough that the sails need to be trimmed differently to head in the direction you want to go.

dlochner · Aug 8, 2022

kendyoozed said:
hanks about the small boat yawling with a digital compass. I hadn't thought that it might not be able to "swing" fast enough.

The digital compass swings too fast. Steering by it will cause the helmsman to move the tiller too often and too much. This leads a very wiggly course a by product of which for some is Mal-d-mare. Traditional analog compasses have fairly imprecise markings (about every 5 degrees) and are filled with oil or viscous liquid to slow them down so the helms person is not chasing the compass needle.

Using instruments to understand how a boat responds will slow skill acquisition. The fastest, easiest, and most fun way to learn this is in a small light boat. A good sailor feels the boat, this is not a cognitive event it is a sensory event. Time at the helm and time on the boat is the only way to acquire this knowledge.

Back in the day when I was crewing on race boats, it was easy to tell the crew who had learned on small boats from those who only sailed bigger heavier boats. Those who learned on small boats responded to changes in conditions faster than those who had not. A puff would roll down the course and the experienced sailors moved outboard to keep the boat flat, the inexperienced didn't move until the skipper yelled.

rgranger · Aug 8, 2022

kendyoozed said:
I understand most of these systems are not needed for the tried and true sailer who has many hours at the helm. I have a wife and 2 boys who are wanting to learn to sail. Having these instruments on board so they know how the boat responds to what the exact changes the weather I believe to be helpful to building a sound foundation for seamanship. True they should never be relied upon 100% but they should help to build that knowledge faster. Im sure there will be many days these instruments will never get turned on, but I would rather have them and not need them.

Thanks about the small boat yawling with a digital compass. I hadn't thought that it might not be able to "swing" fast enough.

I think we all understand the need to feel safe on the water with the family on board … I’d recommend thinking of your electronics for planning and as your backup system when underway…you follow the compas heading and confirm your location with the gizmos every now and again to reassure yourself. That will build real confidence.

the 26D is a tested coastal cruiser and can get you safely to your destination….With the added advantage of a lifting keel for WHEN you kiss the bottom. Go have some fun

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Rick Webb · Aug 8, 2022

kendyoozed said:
Thanks for the corrections.

What do you recommend my boat have? I will be sailing mostly in protected bays but shifting bottoms. Definitely need a depth finder as I will be sailing out of the dedicated chanels to reach some of the islands to camp. Seems a chart plotter with depth would be required? To add all the rest of my wants seems just a step away. Am I wrong?

I've sailed those islands without a depth sounder. I remember being able to see the bottom.