Mystery Leak

shipwreck66 · Jan 26, 2013

What is maddening is that the lip is probably the hull to cabin joint and runs the length of the hull. So the water could be entering anywhere and running the length of that lip, and exiting where the cushion back screws conveniently allowed an exit. Your initial leak may be 10 feet from the wet spot.

RichBone · Jan 26, 2013

On my 25 the 'lip' or stringer runs from the bulkhead all the way aft to the transom. The water might be entering at the forward end or the aft end of it. On mine the screws holding the backrests are on the top of the stringer. If yours are then water wouldn't drip out. Maybe it's coming from the area under the cockpit seats and running down the top of the stringer. Remove the backrests and put some tissue or toilet paper on the stringer in different places and see if it gets wet.

Rich

ebsail · Jan 27, 2013

Leak finding

I only know of one sure fire method for leak finding and I intend to use it this spring. I also have a 25 and the first year, (last year) we found and stopped all the big leaks by rebedding the hand rails, removing and replacing the ports etc. Now, like you, we are down to a couple of small leaks (think 2 ounces per month) we can't find. Here is what we will do in the spring. First we'll use duct and masking tape to seal every crack and vent in the boat. The idea being to make it air tight. This will include taping all around the hatch edges etc. Then with only the top hatch board out, we'll cover this area with a plastic garbage bag and tape the outlet side of a vacuum cleaner to the hole. Now we try to blow up (pressurize) the boat With the vacuum blowing, wash the deck with soapy water (use Joy) and wherever there are soapy bubbles, thats where water is entering the boat. There is no relationship of where water goes in to where it comes out. But this is a sure fire way to end all leaks.

RBone said:
On my 25 the 'lip' or stringer runs from the bulkhead all the way aft to the transom. The water might be entering at the forward end or the aft end of it. On mine the screws holding the backrests are on the top of the stringer. If yours are then water wouldn't drip out. Maybe it's coming from the area under the cockpit seats and running down the top of the stringer. Remove the backrests and put some tissue or toilet paper on the stringer in different places and see if it gets wet.

Rich

Joe11688 · Jan 27, 2013

It sounds like a rub rail leak to me. What I would do is remove the rubber from the groove of the rub rail on the starboard side as far as the point where the moldings butt up just past the suspected leak area. Then remove that molding or moldings. Check for screw heads with no caulking. Then clean the area good and re-caulk it. Reinstall the moldings and the rubber and run a hose over the area to see if it leaks.
If the molding is Vinyl you're going to need to caulk it with Dow Corning 795. If the molding is Aluminum, use any type of caulking of your choice. I use 3-M 4200 or 4000 UV when I can find it, myself.
It's hard to find leaks on an O'Day 25 but you need to be persistent. These boats shouldn't leak a drop. Good luck!
Joe

Ward H · Jan 27, 2013

My 25 has some leaks. One source is obviouse, damaged and loose rub rail screws. Others are not as obvious. I like ebsail's idea for finding leaks but I think I will be taking the more time consuming approach and rebed everything this spring. Remove, caulk and replace the rub rail. Then remove all thru deck hardware, pot holes with epoxy, then bed with butyl tape.
I hope to not be chasing leaks all summer.
Let us know how you make out.

BTW, the galley ice box drains into the bilge.Took some blind photo shots to figure that out.

centerline · Jan 27, 2013

I vote for the rub rail theory.... mine leaked at the rail also and I was able to find it while the boat was on the trailer... and tipping the nose down. then when looking up in the forepeak area, I could see the water seeping from the hull deck joint.... when the boat is level, it will leak at the rails lowest point, which is amidships....

my rail is aluminum with a rubber insert, but the aluminum part is made up of five 10'ft pieces... one bent around the nose of the boat and back, 5' down either side, then butt jointed to another 10' section, then another section behind the mid section with another butt joint, that goes back and around the stern to join in the middle... with the other side.
the water runs to the joints and seeps down in behind the rubber where its trapped.... the only way out is around the screws and into the cabin.....
you have to pull the rubber and clean the screws good and dab them with a good sealer, then seal the joints from the inside to keep the water out..... when its all dry you can reinsert the rubber. and enjoy your efforts with a dry boat...

as for the screws being loose, they will always be a bit loose because... the swelling and shrinking of the materials in the heat or cold.... and a half a turn or a turn loose on the nuts is about the best you will ever keep it for more than a year. to prove my point, when you tighten them up, dab the nut/threads with silicone sealer to insure its not the nut backing off. you will find next year about this time, they will be a bit loose again, although maybe not quite as much...

Joe11688 · Jan 28, 2013

I've mentioned this same subject numerous times on this forum. Believe me, I'm no expert on anything. I came through the school of hard knocks just like you're going through right now.
I used to clean my boat with hull cleaners and even used a grocery store household cleanser called "Zud" to remove deep deposits of grime from Fiberglas Gelcoat ( a tip from "Good Boatkeeping") only to have this stuff eat out the caulking under my gunwales as I rinsed it off.
Consequently, the very next rainstorm came up and I had leaks up the ying yang in my cabin. Believe me. I learned the hard way.
I'm not implying that you shouldn't use hull cleaner on your hull, but I'd refrain from using it on a deck where it can eat out caulking under toe and hand rails and gunwales.
Rudy Nickerson told me a long time ago that the caulking under the gunwales is supposed to be good for about 10 years but I'm going to ad that the life of the caulking can be cut way shorter than that if you use cleaners with Oxalic Acid.

The rub rail is a heck of a lot easier to remove that a life line stanchion. All I did was do half of the boat at a time. Pull the rubber out as far as the molding where it break near the bow, remove, clean, caulk and replace everything. Then do the other side.
It's an easy job believe me. Mark the holes where the screws came out. There's more holes in the molding which are not used and you need to use the same holes that the screws came out from. That's it. Piece of cake.

Joe11688 · Jan 31, 2013

I was able to do the project myself but my boat has Aluminum rub rails. If your boat has vinyl rub rails you may need to have someone assist in holding them for you so they don't break while you're removing them. I've never worked with vinyl rub rails and I have no idea what problems you can run into while removing them.
On the other hand, if your rub rails are Aluminum, it's a one man job. Just mark the holes where the screws came out and do one side at a time.
Re-caulking your gunwale molding may not stop all the leaks in your boat but it will solve most of them narrow it down to a piece of hardware like a lifeline stanchion leak.
I wouldn't mess with a lifeline stanchion unless I definitely knew it was leaking. They're hard to remove sometimes because you need another person to hold the wrench and stainless steel bolts will often break when you're trying to loosen them. It's far easier to remove a gunwale molding believe me.
Also, it's tough to find leaks on an O'Day 25 because of the covers they have in the cabin. I'm hoping that you are able to put a stop to the leaks. You need to be persistent and try to find them through some kind of a process of elimination while eliminating the hardware that is easier to remove first.
Good luck.
Joe

emergpa1 · Jan 31, 2013

Remove the round cut-out covers of the overhead molded liner that allows access to the outside two bolts for your stanchion bases. after a rain, are the inner stanchion nuts/bolts wet?. now put you finger in the hole, and down and find the "trough" that the lip of the inner liner makes at the bottom. Is it wet? the rub rail will not cause water in the trough there. Use the clues you now have to help track down the leak. Personally, i think there are more likely causes of puddles under the starboard cushions than the rubrail. Overhead leaks from through deck fittings are more likely to cause this. They will drain aft along the top of the overhead molded liner then trickle down to the lip/trough and drain back to the low spot in the lip which is just about a foot or two forward of the rear bulkhead, in the galley area, trickle down through the carpet hull liner, and puddle under the cushions. Prime suspects are grab rails, that danged hatch slide, and maybe the fixed ports.

emergpa1 · Jan 31, 2013

sounds like you are on the right path, best of luck
keith

Joe11688 · Feb 1, 2013

With the exception of the rub rail which is vinyl and requires special caulking, the toe rail or anything that is metal or wood to Fiberglas should be caulked with a good adhesive sealant like 3-M 4000 or 4200 so that they don't move. I have found leaks coming from my toe rail near my bow by running a hose over it and feeling for moisture in that area down below.

Joe11688 · Feb 1, 2013

I found that Butyl Tape is good to use under a mast tabernacle and what I did was countersink the holes slightly in the Fiberglas before applying the Butyl Tape. I also used the tape to bed my new fore stay chainplate.

I have these narrow Teak toe rails on my O'Day 222 which are secured with wood screws. The problem you can run into with these toe rails is; a strong blow to the side of your boat can pop one of the screws up and there is always the potential for a leak in that very spot. I don't doubt that they can come loose by being kicked while walking on the deck. I've been very fortunate to be able to pin point that screw, remove the bung, and pry up on the toe rail enough to slide a thinly shaved Popsicle stick under it with some 3-M 42 rather than remove the whole toe rail. If I have to remove my toe rail, I'll run a bead of adhesive sealant right under it because wood screws securing a toe rail just doesn't cut it in my opinion.
At any rate, I sincerely hope you find all the leaks in your boat and are able to stop them.
Good Luck!
Joe

Joe11688 · Feb 2, 2013

Great. We look forward to hearing from you.

Joe11688 · Feb 7, 2013

Click on to this link and go the Album at the bottom of the page entitled, "Gunwale molding caulking made easy." There are five pictures in this album that will give you an idea of what you need to do to get it done the easy way. http://forums.oday.sailboatowners.com/album.php?u=78449

Joe