Mysterious seawater leak 1984 Morgan 323

[mveerman]

I have a 1984 Morgan 323 and we have a mystery leak. Maybe a gallon an hour of ingress. All the known through hulls and sea cocks are dry and in good shape. There’s a small sole hatch cover next the head door just in front of the mast. This is where we have our speed paddle wheel plug. In this hole a 3/4” pvc pipe terminates and routes forward, It’s even glassed in towards the front of the hatch, so almost certainly original. There’s a hole in the bottom of our anchor locker that's also 3/4" round, and my assumption was that this is the foward end of that same pipe. There’s no other way to see this pipe as it’s under all v-berth hatches, possibly built into the hull?? We have a steady drip of brackish water dripping out of this pipe. I poured a big cup of water in the anchor locker hole and the flow did increase from a drip to a very thin stream for a little while, so they appear connected, but the distance is likely 10 feet, so I’d have expected the whole cup of water to shoot out noticeably. Before I poured the cup, I confirmed the anchor locker was dry, and this isn't fresh water, which is what I'd expect from there. Other than the speed paddle wheel sensor hole in the same compartment, our depth transducer is the only other through hull further forward and that is also bone dry.

We just finished hauling out 2 days ago, and have a freshly repainted bottom. We have zero blisters and no damage to the hull that I’m aware of.

Does anyone know anything about this pipe or the construction of Morgan’s that might know how or where seawater is getting into this pipe??

 

[dlochner]

A couple of places to look, the stuffing box and the upper rudder bearing. Also check the seawater side of the engine cooling system.

 

[jssailem]

The Morgan is a solidly built boat. I have not seen the pvc pipe you are identifying. Does not mean that it was added to the design.

You identify the water as brackish. That either is water from outside the hull or it is rain water that has become brackish from accumulated debris from inside the hull.

You had the boat out of the water. Are there any through hulls inline with this pipe? Are there any dings or cracks associated with the hull in the area of the pipe? Can water get into the area of the pipe from outside (I.e.anchor water splash or leaks from the deck)?

Persistent water leaks are never easy nor the same on all boats.

 

[shemandr]

It kinda sounds like an anchor locker drain since you poured water in and it came out in the paddlewheel compartment. I agree with John that a cup of water would be brackish after running thru a 40 year old drain with the salt that could have accumulated there.
Is there a limber hole in this compartment to drain into the bilge or other means to be de-watered? Now that the boat is on the hard I would take a hose to the anchor locker - with a way to remove the water in that compartment - and send gallons of water thru. I think you'll be able to tell if the hose is the drain for the anchor locker.
Over the winter, while on the hard, you can monitor the water accumulation in that compartment. Presumably it can't be coming from the thru hulls. So it could be a leak in the anchor locker hatch or surrounds. There's a lot of hardware in the bow of a bow that are subject to leaks.

 

[mveerman]

A couple of places to look, the stuffing box and the upper rudder bearing. Also check the seawater side of the engine cooling system.

Thanks, while we were hauled out, I tightened the stuffing box, and currently have 1 drip every ~10 seconds. That isn't enough to account for the volume of water we're seeing. That being said, your totally right that I forgot to look for leaks at the engine connections. I just checked the seacocks. Once we found the leaking pipe forward, I didn't do my do diligence, so thanks.

 

[mveerman]

The Morgan is a solidly built boat. I have not seen the pvc pipe you are identifying. Does not mean that it was added to the design.

You identify the water as brackish. That either is water from outside the hull or it is rain water that has become brackish from accumulated debris from inside the hull.

You had the boat out of the water. Are there any through hulls inline with this pipe? Are there any dings or cracks associated with the hull in the area of the pipe? Can water get into the area of the pipe from outside (I.e.anchor water splash or leaks from the deck)?

Persistent water leaks are never easy nor the same on all boats.

We're in Annapolis, so I just meant raw water, but it's a good point that the pipe could be salty from years of salt buildup.

There are 4 through-hulls forward of the pipe: speed transducer, depth transducer, holding tank pump out, and raw water intake for toilet flushing. All of these locations are 100% dry. When we were on the hard, I wasn't looking for cracks because everything looked pristine. I didn't see anything obvious when we re-painted. From what I can tell, the only entrance to the pipe that I'm aware of is the bottom of the anchor locker, that's it. The fact that the water didn't rush out of the other end makes me wonder if there was some form of collection point where the hull funnels water ingress via some channel, and eventually make it's way out of the pipe in question. In other words, it's not a direct pipe from anchor locker to location in the picture. Thank you for your thoughts.

 

[mveerman]

It kinda sounds like an anchor locker drain since you poured water in and it came out in the paddlewheel compartment. I agree with John that a cup of water would be brackish after running thru a 40 year old drain with the salt that could have accumulated there.
Is there a limber hole in this compartment to drain into the bilge or other means to be de-watered? Now that the boat is on the hard I would take a hose to the anchor locker - with a way to remove the water in that compartment - and send gallons of water thru. I think you'll be able to tell if the hose is the drain for the anchor locker.
Over the winter, while on the hard, you can monitor the water accumulation in that compartment. Presumably it can't be coming from the thru hulls. So it could be a leak in the anchor locker hatch or surrounds. There's a lot of hardware in the bow of a bow that are subject to leaks.

Yeah, that compartment will eventually drain into the bilge, and in fact, it may even be the exact same bilge as where the pump is.What I said was confusing, sorry, we just wrapped up being on the hard, so are back in the water now.

I'm going to get my compressor and blow out that pipe, it wouldn't surprise me if anchor mud, etc. has it fully clogged. That could mean the pipe is just full of rainwater. I don't know if it's long enough to hold as much water as we're seeing, but will find out. The KISS rule does mean this is the exact same pipe and it's direct.

As I responded to dlochner, I never actually checked for leaks at the engine, so duh. I'm really hoping I find one. I'm also hoping to find that the pipe is no longer leaking as if it is, that can only mean we have a crack in the hull somewhere ... right??? Anyway, thanks for your response.

 

[dlochner]

We're in Annapolis, so I just meant raw water, but it's a good point that the pipe could be salty from years of salt buildup.

There are 4 through-hulls forward of the pipe: speed transducer, depth transducer, holding tank pump out, and raw water intake for toilet flushing. All of these locations are 100% dry. When we were on the hard, I wasn't looking for cracks because everything looked pristine. I didn't see anything obvious when we re-painted. From what I can tell, the only entrance to the pipe that I'm aware of is the bottom of the anchor locker, that's it. The fact that the water didn't rush out of the other end makes me wonder if there was some form of collection point where the hull funnels water ingress via some channel, and eventually make it's way out of the pipe in question. In other words, it's not a direct pipe from anchor locker to location in the picture. Thank you for your thoughts.

The pipe could be clogged from years of mud, silt, and other unknown crap collecting in the pipe. Try running a plumbing snake through the pipe to see what comes out.

 

[mveerman]

I just went to the boat this morning, and unfortunately there's still a steady drip out of that pipe. I'm starting to think something may have happened during haul out. I wasn't there when they actually hauled it out and propped it up, but it's a professional yard, and the guy who operates the travel lift has been doing it for at least 3 decades, so I'm not saying they did anything amiss. I'm just wondering how common it is for a haul out to cause a significant crack in the fiberglass. My wife seems to think it had picked up prior to the haul out, so who knows. At this point, I'm not sure what else we can do other than just haul it out again for inspection.

Last question, if I'm trying to look for the most probable cause, it would be one of the thru-hulls. I know that all of our thru-hulls look good inside the boat, but I suppose one could start leaking at the outside, enough to make it into the hull, but not enough to make it all the way through. If this is the case though. Why does it exit through this pipe? This is where I start to wonder about the construction and if the pipe works like a french drain where there's a portion of the "hull" that collects water in order to funnel it into the bilge. lol Totally ignorant about Morgan hull construction.