I am starting work toward a new racing headsail for my H23. In a boat this size, does the sail material matter? Is a mylar sail worth the extra money? Any advise or comments? Thanks
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Del Wiese
some thoughts
I don't think size of boat is an issue. Local Catalina 22s use mylar/kevlar sails. Cost is an issue, they cost a lot more. Rating is an issue, at least locally they lower your rating, hopefully by less than the performance increase. I used a mylar 135 on my Legend 37 and took a 6 spm penalty which was really for mylar genoa and main. I did not have a mylar main and never felt I got 6 spm more from the mylar genoa. I have replaced it with dacron.
I don't think size of boat is an issue. Local Catalina 22s use mylar/kevlar sails. Cost is an issue, they cost a lot more. Rating is an issue, at least locally they lower your rating, hopefully by less than the performance increase. I used a mylar 135 on my Legend 37 and took a 6 spm penalty which was really for mylar genoa and main. I did not have a mylar main and never felt I got 6 spm more from the mylar genoa. I have replaced it with dacron.
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Cliff Ruckstuhl
Go for the Mylar
Having raced the 23 with very successful results I would most defently go with the Mylar. No Stretch better shape longer lasting shape will not absorb water like a Dacron and will be hands down the faster sail. A cross Cut Mylar from UK is only about 11% more in cost. If you are serious about racing the 23 and having the boat set up correclty also having a 130 is a killer on this boat. When every one else changes down to a 110 a good flat 130 makes this boat scream to wind word in about 12 knots of wind speed. Cliff Hunter 28.5 "Red Dog"
Having raced the 23 with very successful results I would most defently go with the Mylar. No Stretch better shape longer lasting shape will not absorb water like a Dacron and will be hands down the faster sail. A cross Cut Mylar from UK is only about 11% more in cost. If you are serious about racing the 23 and having the boat set up correclty also having a 130 is a killer on this boat. When every one else changes down to a 110 a good flat 130 makes this boat scream to wind word in about 12 knots of wind speed. Cliff Hunter 28.5 "Red Dog"
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Alan
Agree w/Cliff
If you're serious about racing, lighter and stronger is MUCH faster. The boat will handle better with better pointing and speed. Dacron streches too much, wont hold its shape as the wind increases, which is just when you need it to.
If you're serious about racing, lighter and stronger is MUCH faster. The boat will handle better with better pointing and speed. Dacron streches too much, wont hold its shape as the wind increases, which is just when you need it to.
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Bill Leathen
Contiuation of mylar head sail discussion
Thanks for the input about a mylar sail. I can appreciate Cliff's comment about the 130 being a screamer. My next question is ; Keep in mind that this sail will be used only for racing and I have a harken roller furler. I have a very blown out 155 that can not be roller furled on her now, and over about 9 we are overpowered. In that situation we de-power by bending the mast and luffing. What are your thoughts on a 155 mylar set up so that it can be rolled down if needed?
Thanks for the input about a mylar sail. I can appreciate Cliff's comment about the 130 being a screamer. My next question is ; Keep in mind that this sail will be used only for racing and I have a harken roller furler. I have a very blown out 155 that can not be roller furled on her now, and over about 9 we are overpowered. In that situation we de-power by bending the mast and luffing. What are your thoughts on a 155 mylar set up so that it can be rolled down if needed?
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Cliff Ruckstuhl
Not good
I am not a big fan of roller furling at all. If I were a full time cruiser then I might be I just hate the shape of a partial rolled up sail. For racing I would vote no on rolling up a 155 to anything. I think when you roll up any sail you loose the shape that is was designed for. The shape was designed to be furled all the way out when you roll it to a 135 that fast shape is now gone. Not to mention the big rolled up leading edge that you will have. In PHRF they will give you a credit for the RF but it is mostly baised on the smaller sail area not the shape. You could collect the RF credit and then have a 155%, 135%, and a 98% all cut for RF but they will all be missing the sail area for being a RF sail. Some boats like Melgas 24 do have RF but it is either rolled all up or all out nothing in between. They might take one roll on it just because it is blowing that hard but the rule would be all out. My biggest gripe is people who race and don't have ther boat race ready and then they cry about the number they are giving. They will complain about some number they have and when you look at ther boat they have a high cut old 150 head sail on a Roller Furling a 3 bladed prop and a 40 grit bottom. Ther boat just is not in race condition. Now this is fine for them they will go out race and have a good time but they will more then likly finish in the back of the fleet then complain about it. Getting the boat race ready takes time and $$, having good fast sail's and a fast bottom and time on the boat. It takes a comitment to get the boat to where it needs to be. I spent tremendous amount of time sanding the bottom of my boat and fairing out the keel and it is a never ending thing for me to keep the boat fast. But it is what I need to do and having the boat in top condition is the difference between 1st and 5th. So if you are commited to racing the 23 do all that you can with boat prep and $$. If RF is the only way you can go then get a sail cut that can be a deck sweeper and try and find a good used 130 and switch them when needed. The 23 can be a very good boat as a racer and cruiser. But needs to be set up to be a racer when it is race day. Dennis Conner's biggest advantage over all the other sailors was boat prep. He talks about it in all his book's. I race against a very competitive fleet on Lake Erie and we all love racing against each other, and we all, above all love beating each other. I'll bet you money Mike Auston on Lunasea will have his boat fast this spring and he will have me in his sites come time for the Mill's Race and he Know's he will be in mine. Cliff 28.5 "Red Dog"
I am not a big fan of roller furling at all. If I were a full time cruiser then I might be I just hate the shape of a partial rolled up sail. For racing I would vote no on rolling up a 155 to anything. I think when you roll up any sail you loose the shape that is was designed for. The shape was designed to be furled all the way out when you roll it to a 135 that fast shape is now gone. Not to mention the big rolled up leading edge that you will have. In PHRF they will give you a credit for the RF but it is mostly baised on the smaller sail area not the shape. You could collect the RF credit and then have a 155%, 135%, and a 98% all cut for RF but they will all be missing the sail area for being a RF sail. Some boats like Melgas 24 do have RF but it is either rolled all up or all out nothing in between. They might take one roll on it just because it is blowing that hard but the rule would be all out. My biggest gripe is people who race and don't have ther boat race ready and then they cry about the number they are giving. They will complain about some number they have and when you look at ther boat they have a high cut old 150 head sail on a Roller Furling a 3 bladed prop and a 40 grit bottom. Ther boat just is not in race condition. Now this is fine for them they will go out race and have a good time but they will more then likly finish in the back of the fleet then complain about it. Getting the boat race ready takes time and $$, having good fast sail's and a fast bottom and time on the boat. It takes a comitment to get the boat to where it needs to be. I spent tremendous amount of time sanding the bottom of my boat and fairing out the keel and it is a never ending thing for me to keep the boat fast. But it is what I need to do and having the boat in top condition is the difference between 1st and 5th. So if you are commited to racing the 23 do all that you can with boat prep and $$. If RF is the only way you can go then get a sail cut that can be a deck sweeper and try and find a good used 130 and switch them when needed. The 23 can be a very good boat as a racer and cruiser. But needs to be set up to be a racer when it is race day. Dennis Conner's biggest advantage over all the other sailors was boat prep. He talks about it in all his book's. I race against a very competitive fleet on Lake Erie and we all love racing against each other, and we all, above all love beating each other. I'll bet you money Mike Auston on Lunasea will have his boat fast this spring and he will have me in his sites come time for the Mill's Race and he Know's he will be in mine. Cliff 28.5 "Red Dog"
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Bill Leathen
Thanks Cliff.
Thanks for the advise Cliff. This probably explains why the previous owner, who only raced, had the 155 mylar cut so that it could not be furled. He also had a racing main, but my new Doyle main seems faster - even after I had the 6 year old racing main re-cut. The loft said the 155 was too blown out to be re-cut so that is why I am in the hunt for another sail. Your advice is greatly appreciated.
Thanks for the advise Cliff. This probably explains why the previous owner, who only raced, had the 155 mylar cut so that it could not be furled. He also had a racing main, but my new Doyle main seems faster - even after I had the 6 year old racing main re-cut. The loft said the 155 was too blown out to be re-cut so that is why I am in the hunt for another sail. Your advice is greatly appreciated.
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