My Sailboat Mentor Bailed

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Oct 6, 2011
678
CM 32 USA
I met a guy that sails a Mac 26 X. He is pretty knowleggable about sailboats, more than me.

He helped me with rigging and getting me going on my Mac 25.

Now that I have moved up to a fixed keel 32' sailboat, he says he will help me figure out the rigging, but he does not want to sail my fixed keel boat in a small shallow lake.

My boat is a shoal draft, and many fin sailboats are on my lake, some with almost twice the draft of my boat.

What gives?

I really would like to go out the first time with someone with more knowledge of sailing than myself.

 
Jan 22, 2008
597
Oday 35 and Mariner 2+2 Alexandria, VA
Perhaps it is just his unfamiliarity with the boat. If it is outside his comfort zone, or he has only sailed daggerboards etc. he is probably unfamiliar with the keel and would not want to be responsible for getting stuck. My advice is to get a good chart and depth sounder, get familiar with the lake (other sailors may have some good markups of the area) and then take him for a ride!
 
Dec 15, 2011
103
Oday 20 SF Bay Area/Monterey Bay
Gary, not to diminish the possible danger involved in any water activity but if I understand correctly you have this boat docked on an 1,800 acre lake. The smallest reservoir in my area is 3,800 acres and I have to make u-turns every 20 minutes to keep it from banging into the shoreline. And that's with my 4.5 hp kicker rolling along at less than half throttle.

My advice is get a depth finder and motor around the lake surveying the bottom for yourself to verify sufficient depth for your 32. You list four boats, if the ski boat has a depth sounder spend an afternoon in it checking depths.

Then the next day cast the lines, hoist the laundry and sail it where you know it's deep enough. Let him help you sort the rigging at the dock and leave it at that. If you sailed the 25 or 30 footers, I'm sure you can figure out the 32.
 

Joe

.
Jun 1, 2004
8,323
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
Maybe he's just afraid of a real sailboat.
 

Kermit

.
Jul 31, 2010
5,722
AquaCat 12.5 17342 Wateree Lake, SC
Maybe he's giving you your wings. Kicking you out of the nest.
 
Mar 28, 2010
91
Catalina C320 Washington, NC
Gary,

On a shallow lake with a fixed keel, in time you are going aground. If your lake does not have rocks or a hard bottom, most of these groundings will be of little consequence, other than you have to get yourself free. The advantage of a swingkeel/dagger board, of course, is that you pull it up and go another way. With the fixed keel, it's going to be a different technique. I sail in a shallow, but large river in NC. My current boat, a 32 footer with wing keel takes a different technique. But I am assuming that your fixed keel does not have a wing or bulb on it....if it does, please so state. First of all, to take lots of stress out of the situation, make sure that you have a working depthfinder on your boat and verify it is accurately set (you do this by actually intentionally touching the bottom very slowly and measuring the depth at which you touch bottom...if the depthfinder reads different, adjust the depthfinder, or make a mental note of the reading number that was displayed when the bottom was touched. When you sail, keep close watch on the depthfinder. When the readings start to approach that number, slow the boat so that if you hit, it'll be easier to get off the bottom and turn away back towards the deeper water.

When you do get stuck, a technique that I used was: To get off, you want to twist the boat around and go back off on the recipical of your original course (i.e. the same way you came on). First determine how the wind is acting on the sails. If the wind is trying to drive you further aground, drop the sails. But many times the wind will help drive you off after you twist the boat around and "tack the sails". Start your engine and use that in combination with the sail to drive you off. Work the rudder back and forth as you motor and this will help break the suction forces between the bottom and the keel. If you have crew on board, have them (with life jackets in case one slips in) go to the shrouds and swing their weight over the side...feet on the edge of the boat, hands holding the shrouds. And if they can rock the boat from there, that also helps. Their wieght and the wind forces should heel the boat over, giving you a few inches of reduced draft, which is all you will normally need to get the boat free. If this doesn't work, you may need to place an anchor over the side with a line attached to a halyard so that the boat may be winched over more on it's side. But if you don't have a dinghy, this means someone has to go into the water, which could be problematic if the water is cold (i.e. risk of hypothermia). Float the anchor out on a fender or lifejacket. When the anchor line/ halyard is tightened and anchor sets, the pull will be against the top of the mast and will use the mast as a lever arm to heel the boat. Once heeled over, you can motor off. Then, you'll have the problem of recovering the anchor....you might attach a float marker and come back later in a shallow draft boat if it's not practical to do from the sailboat or your dinghy. Often, if you are alert, before you ground completely, you'll feel a couple of easy bumps...then you turn immediately and often you can retreat the opposite direction without ever coming to a complete stop.

An additional technique to heel the boat is to attach a weight to the end of the boom and swing it out...that weight could be a bucket or water bag filled with water, or one of the crew.

Don't be intimidated by the larger boat. I find that my 32 footer is easier to sail and handle that my 22, 24,28 footer previous boats. Docking/undocking is the only thing that is more difficult.

As someone else said, spend some time with a shallow draft boat and depthfinder finding and recording on a chart (if there is no chart, make a hand drawn one) where the water is shallow.

Tell your friend, not to worry, if you go aground, you, not him, is responsible. After all, you are the captain and the owner. Tell him that you need him to help with docking, setting and adjusting sails. And especially, to use as moveable ballast in the event you do ground....i.e. he's the guy to swing out on the shouds at the beam to heel the boat above.

As a precaution, the first few times out, you might alert the dockmaster at the marina or other boater that you might need for them to send out an assist boat and make such arrangements in advance. Contact them by radio or cell phone if you need assistance of a power boat that can pull you off if above techniques fail.....but I think you will be fine without their help using the techniques I mentioned above.

Good luck, enjoy your boat.
 
Oct 26, 2008
6,432
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
Gary, how are they at marking underwater obstuctions? You have to try pretty hard on Lake Hopatcong to touch bottom anywhere because all the rocks are marked with warning cans. We have a lot of really nasty granite blocks around much of the shoreline so they have had them all marked out for at least a century or more.

If you have a lot of shallows with mud bottoms, that would be a different story. I often get beeps from the depth sounder (set at 4' for my boat) even when in deeper water. It seems that weeds will give you a false reading. Sometimes I can be sailing along in 12 to 15 feet (which is actually quite shallow for us - the main body of water ranges from 30' to 50' depth) and be reading the weeds which basically are cut off only a few feet down. The thousands of power boats that criss-cross all summer pretty much mow the weeds so that they are never an issue for the keel or spade rudder that I have.
 
Oct 6, 2011
678
CM 32 USA
Thank you for you lengthy post which helps me realize things in perspective.

This and all the replies were read and appreciated.

Finished the clean up detail on the boat today. Now she is ready for first time out.


Gary,

On a shallow lake with a fixed keel, in time you are going aground. If your lake does not have rocks or a hard bottom, most of these groundings will be of little consequence, other than you have to get yourself free. The advantage of a swingkeel/dagger board, of course, is that you pull it up and go another way. With the fixed keel, it's going to be a different technique. I sail in a shallow, but large river in NC. My current boat, a 32 footer with wing keel takes a different technique. But I am assuming that your fixed keel does not have a wing or bulb on it....if it does, please so state. First of all, to take lots of stress out of the situation, make sure that you have a working depthfinder on your boat and verify it is accurately set (you do this by actually intentionally touching the bottom very slowly and measuring the depth at which you touch bottom...if the depthfinder reads different, adjust the depthfinder, or make a mental note of the reading number that was displayed when the bottom was touched. When you sail, keep close watch on the depthfinder. When the readings start to approach that number, slow the boat so that if you hit, it'll be easier to get off the bottom and turn away back towards the deeper water.

When you do get stuck, a technique that I used was: To get off, you want to twist the boat around and go back off on the recipical of your original course (i.e. the same way you came on). First determine how the wind is acting on the sails. If the wind is trying to drive you further aground, drop the sails. But many times the wind will help drive you off after you twist the boat around and "tack the sails". Start your engine and use that in combination with the sail to drive you off. Work the rudder back and forth as you motor and this will help break the suction forces between the bottom and the keel. If you have crew on board, have them (with life jackets in case one slips in) go to the shrouds and swing their weight over the side...feet on the edge of the boat, hands holding the shrouds. And if they can rock the boat from there, that also helps. Their wieght and the wind forces should heel the boat over, giving you a few inches of reduced draft, which is all you will normally need to get the boat free. If this doesn't work, you may need to place an anchor over the side with a line attached to a halyard so that the boat may be winched over more on it's side. But if you don't have a dinghy, this means someone has to go into the water, which could be problematic if the water is cold (i.e. risk of hypothermia). Float the anchor out on a fender or lifejacket. When the anchor line/ halyard is tightened and anchor sets, the pull will be against the top of the mast and will use the mast as a lever arm to heel the boat. Once heeled over, you can motor off. Then, you'll have the problem of recovering the anchor....you might attach a float marker and come back later in a shallow draft boat if it's not practical to do from the sailboat or your dinghy. Often, if you are alert, before you ground completely, you'll feel a couple of easy bumps...then you turn immediately and often you can retreat the opposite direction without ever coming to a complete stop.

An additional technique to heel the boat is to attach a weight to the end of the boom and swing it out...that weight could be a bucket or water bag filled with water, or one of the crew.

Don't be intimidated by the larger boat. I find that my 32 footer is easier to sail and handle that my 22, 24,28 footer previous boats. Docking/undocking is the only thing that is more difficult.

As someone else said, spend some time with a shallow draft boat and depthfinder finding and recording on a chart (if there is no chart, make a hand drawn one) where the water is shallow.

Tell your friend, not to worry, if you go aground, you, not him, is responsible. After all, you are the captain and the owner. Tell him that you need him to help with docking, setting and adjusting sails. And especially, to use as moveable ballast in the event you do ground....i.e. he's the guy to swing out on the shouds at the beam to heel the boat above.

As a precaution, the first few times out, you might alert the dockmaster at the marina or other boater that you might need for them to send out an assist boat and make such arrangements in advance. Contact them by radio or cell phone if you need assistance of a power boat that can pull you off if above techniques fail.....but I think you will be fine without their help using the techniques I mentioned above.

Good luck, enjoy your boat.
 
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