My Own Colregs

[jibes138]

Some of this sounds fine in open waters but that greatly oversimplifies all of the conditions encountered on a boat. The ICW comes to mind where passing and overtaking vessels might object if the stand on vessel made sudden maneuvers. Similarly entering or leaving an inlet with vessels constrained by draft and so forth with lots of small vessels crossing the channel. Last time I drove a car I was surprised to find almost no one going the speed limit or slower. Operating at the speed limit makes you a hazard on the road. Why can't people just follow the rules? Perhaps the penalties aren't severe enough?

 

[All U Get]

Ha ha ha ha, if anyone needs practice there's a little spot in Maine between the Penobscot Bay and Downeast that will get your mind to thinking. There is actually a sign that says 'Lobstermen only, no yachts' on one of the docks, so I'm told. We stand on, slow down, speed up, turn, back up if we have to, and most importantly avoid the buoys with toggles, and still we have had a few boats come at us at speed. Pretty simple rule, fishing over recreation.

 

[Warren Milberg]

Will's analysis of Warren's intentions are quite well stated.

Perhaps another way to say it would be: Warren positions himself beforehand that there should be NO DOUBT that any chance of collision is imminent or possible.

This is wise.

Please remember, the Colregs we have been discussing in this and the other posts these past few days prescribe the behavior of two vessels who are in a position to have a collision.

Avoiding being in that position in the first place makes a lot of sense.

However, remember, if you DO that, logically, there exists no condition where stand on or give way activities ever become necessary.

This is not a "My Own Colregs," it actually is exactly Colregs.

Stu and Will: You read my intent quite correctly.

 

[Pirate Dave]

We can talk about give way and stand on vessels all day long, as well as the pecking order and who has right over whom. The end of the COLREG does state that each vessel is required to take whatever action is necessary to keep clear. At the end of the day, don't try to tell the Coast Guard board the you took no action because you were the stand on vessel with rights

 

[jwing]

Two boats of apparently similar size (is that length or displacement?) are approaching the entrance to a channel that goes under a bridge. Both skippers are operating under the Warren Milberg set of collision avoidance rules. Neither boat ever makes it under the the bridge and the two of them create havoc for the boats who approach later - from both sides of the bridge. For even more fun, let's add tidal current!

Makes me think of this:

 

[Warren Milberg]

I can't stand this thread! People make up their own rules and others cheer? There is only one COLREGS if you want to be safe learn them.

The problem is, Larry and jwing, as indicated in my Rule No. 1, a lot of other boaters out there either don't know, understand, or care about the "real" COLREGS. That, to me, creates and even greater potential for chaos on the waters. In the end, it's a matter of common sense and doing all you can do to avoid a collision. I just don't wait for the situation to develop where I do not have options. It's really that simple.

 

[Rick486]

Ha ha ha ha, if anyone needs practice there's a little spot in Maine between the Penobscot Bay and Downeast that will get your mind to thinking. There is actually a sign that says 'Lobstermen only, no yachts' on one of the docks, so I'm told. We stand on, slow down, speed up, turn, back up if we have to, and most importantly avoid the buoys with toggles, and still we have had a few boats come at us at speed. Pretty simple rule, fishing over recreation.

Actually some years back I called at a place called New Harbor on the Western side of Muscungus Bay to buy some diesel fuel. Well, guess what? On the only fuel dock in the harbor there was exactly such a sign! We didn't press our luck but instead reversed course and picked our way again through the seemingly 10,000 lobster buoys to find the entrance again. Fortunately we had enough fuel to go to Boothbay Harbor close by. Didn't really think too much of it at the time and still don't. As the slogan goes "...Maine, the way life should be...for lobstermen.."

 

[Calif. Ted]

I have a frequent situation for which the best solution could be an addendum to the Colregs, "Get the weather gage".
Usually returning home is a port tack, boats coming out of the harbor are on Starboard, because they don't maintain course you really can't tell how far they are going to slough off to leeward. If you drop off for a port to port they drop off, safest course is to get above them early so they can't get up to you.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_gage

 

[Maine Sail]

Then there are the folks who do understand the rules but are just plain jerks..

Last week we were sailing almost DDW under light winds on a clear Starboard tack (both by boom position and genoa) and fighting a Maine tidal current. SOG was about 2.7 knots. About 80 yards off our bow, in no danger of a dangerous crossing situation, a sailor crossed our bow on a Port tack. He had over a 1.7 miles of deep water ahead of him on that tack.

Shortly after crossing our bow he tacked over to Starboard. After he tacked over his original point of sail would have had him very, very easily passing to our stern. However, in an arsehole move, to apparently earn a stand on position as the leeward Starbord tack boat, he started falling off, and off, and off, until we were forced to jibe. Once we jibed, and he'd proved his point, he headed upwind again on his original point of sail. This made it quite clear he was just being a jerk..

I hailed him on 16, and he actually answered. I commended him on his understanding of the rules but as a gentleman and fellow sailor I suggested he was acting rather childish with that move. He responded "Rules are rules now aren't they." It was not worth arguing the finer points of the rules and obligations... Suffice it to say his hailing port was not Maine.... Some folks are just a-holes even when out doing something as enjoyable as sailing.

 

[Cowpokee]

I have a frequent situation for which the best solution could be an addendum to the Colregs, "Get the weather gage".
Usually returning home is a port tack, boats coming out of the harbor are on Starboard, because they don't maintain course you really can't tell how far they are going to slough off to leeward. If you drop off for a port to port they drop off, safest course is to get above them early so they can't get up to you.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_gage

Wow, you can learn all kinds of neat things on this forum. Even things you didn't know you needed to learn.

 

[Captain Larry-DH]

Will's analysis of Warren's intentions are quite well stated.

Perhaps another way to say it would be: Warren positions himself beforehand that there should be NO DOUBT that any chance of collision is imminent or possible.

This is wise.

Please remember, the Colregs we have been discussing in this and the other posts these past few days prescribe the behavior of two vessels who are in a position to have a collision.

Avoiding being in that position in the first place makes a lot of sense.

However, remember, if you DO that, logically, there exists no condition where stand on or give way activities ever become necessary.

This is not a "My Own Colregs," it actually is exactly Colregs.

I appreciate where you're coming from on this, and it's practical in open water but the nature of things often includes crossing in closer situations or restricted quarters.

 

[Will Gilmore]

"Rules are rules now aren't they."

I think the one rule of the ColRegs is, don't collide. Everything else is just how to apportion blame and responsibility. In New Hampshire, for example, it isn't illegal to drive without insurance, but it is illegal to get in an accident without it. If that guy caused an accident despite another boater trying to avoid him, it won't matter if he followed the rules. It is illegal to cause an accident. He is responsible for allowing the other guy leeway no matter what tack he's on.
I'd say he knows the rules but he doesn't understand them.

-Will (Dragonfly)

 

[Warren Milberg]

Then there are the folks who do understand the rules but are just plain jerks..

Last week we were sailing almost DDW under light winds on a clear Starboard tack (both by boom position and genoa) and fighting a Maine tidal current. SOG was about 2.7 knots. About 80 yards off our bow, in no danger of a dangerous crossing situation, a sailor crossed our bow on a Port tack. He had over a 1.7 miles of deep water ahead of him on that tack.

Shortly after crossing our bow he tacked over to Starboard. After he tacked over his original point of sail would have had him very, very easily passing to our stern. However, in an arsehole move, to apparently earn a stand on position as the leeward Starbord tack boat, he started falling off, and off, and off, until we were forced to jibe. Once we jibed, and he'd proved his point, he headed upwind again on his original point of sail. This made it quite clear he was just being a jerk..

I hailed him on 16, and he actually answered. I commended him on his understanding of the rules but as a gentleman and fellow sailor I suggested he was acting rather childish with that move. He responded "Rules are rules now aren't they." It was not worth arguing the finer points of the rules and obligations... Suffice it to say his hailing port was not Maine.... Some folks are just a-holes even when out doing something as enjoyable as sailing.

It seems to me this guy proved himself to be a jerk -- and a dangerous one -- early on. Had this been me, I would have jibed early and let him dazzle himself with his wit, insight, and brilliant sailing abilities. Life is too short to let your underwear get bunched up over these kinds of antics.

 

[Rick486]

I have a frequent situation for which the best solution could be an addendum to the Colregs, "Get the weather gage".
Usually returning home is a port tack, boats coming out of the harbor are on Starboard, because they don't maintain course you really can't tell how far they are going to slough off to leeward. If you drop off for a port to port they drop off, safest course is to get above them early so they can't get up to you.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_gage

Seize the weather gage.......fire as you bear on the up roll.....

 

[Rick486]

Life is too short to let your underwear get bunched up over these kinds of antics.

I hate it when that happens...