My new 40.1 ran down the house bank

[smokey73]

interestingly I did a little test and the battery bank was at 64% 1 o’clock and I turned off the bank switch. Turned it on at 6:30 and it still read 64%. I gave it a short 1 hr test with no loads turned on at all, just the parasitic loads, and after an hour it was still right at 64%. Not conclusive, but doesn’t look like it’s draining fast definitely with bank isolation switch open (which I expect but that’s a good thing to prove) and at least for an hour with system just like I left it, it’s not draining super quick at least.

I’ll try to update you guys- thanks for the support.

With your short test of 1 hour I wouldn't expect the battery capacity to reduce much, if anything measurable. With a small parasitic load of even 1 amp you would only draw 1 Amp hours out of the battery, which might not even show up on the % capacity display depending on what its accuracy and resolution are. Time is not your friend in a parasitic load with no charging source. You might even have a bad "new" battery (it happens) that is self discharging slowly and adding to the problem. The experts will check all this and Monday will tell the tale.

 

[hvac&r tech]

With engine running was your alternator energized? (depending on setup your tach might not work if alternator is not activated).
We have a 12V relay that activates the alternator field - if batteries are low it doesn't always switch in. Did your start bank get a charging voltage when running?
Even a typical .5 - 1.0 amp draw from stereo memory or other standby electronics will, left on its own, draw 250-500 Amps over 3 weeks...

Thanks for tips, going to resume Monday with dealers guidance

 

[hvac&r tech]

“Don't know where that sensor is on a Beneteau.”

the book says one of the functions of the 120v shore-generator transfer switch is voltage measurement, so the line side of that is what’s measured on my Beneteau 40.1. There’s other 120v circuit breakers port of port quarter berth on the hull in a locker that are part of AC power system, non appear tripped. No test points that I can see, all closed up in enclosures. I don’t wish to dig into alternator charging circuit now even though I’m curious too why it wouldn’t seem to charge a dead battery bank, since it wasn’t orig issue and I want to have dealers technical resources focus on the issue at hand. LikevI said I’ll do my best to remember to come back and post updates, supposed to work for a living this week too.

 

[jssailem]

There is a lot of brain power working this challenge.
The MFD has a beautiful display. Showing beautiful graphics.
I know the solution has to come from the Dealer and Builder, but it seams relevant to at least identify the systems at play here, and the way the wiring is on the boat if you are going to try and solve the problem..

Observations like:

• Alternator not charging battery - Check the Voltage Regulator? Is the alternator putting out any charge current? How big is alternator?
• Batteries not holding charge. Batteries at 4volts (dead). Batteries at 64% holding charge for 60 minutes (surface charge)? How big is battery bank? How long will it take for an alternator of 40amps to recharge and unknown battery bank (perhaps 400 amp hour capacity - unclear)
• Who manufactured the Generator/Inverter? How is the system wired? To one battery, to all of the batteries.

These systems are take a little definition to begin to diagnose the issues. Sure the dealer is several hours away. Working on the phone with a manual trying to be the operator on a new system without all the background feels like stabbing at a solution in the dark. You may make the right connection, but you may also create a lot of sparks.

Perhaps the dealer should send a technician to the boat.

 

[smokey73]

WOW - that is a complex looking system! To the OP, I would not suggest nor would I encourage that you open panels on a brand new boat and certainly not to attempt to work on live 120V circuits. I see a 30A GFCI 6ma in the black box panel closest to the right side of the picture.

On the first beige panel closest to the 30A GFCI there is a 3 gang breaker below what looks like an I beam. I'm guessing that is the French symbol for the shore power cutoff. I don't think this is the breaker I was referring to because if my memory serves me right the breaker I am referring to is supposed to be within 1 ft of where the shore power enters the boat. Maybe someone with the ABYC standards in their hands could weigh in on that.

Based on your manual, it would appear that the voltage is getting through that breaker I am referring to (close to the where shore power enters the boat) so even if you can't find the breaker, it would not seem to be a contributor to the issue(s) you are dealing with.

@jssailem From the inference of the OP, I am assuming the Dealer is sending a technician familiar with Beneteau's of this size and complexity to the boat on Monday (and boy is it complex to us old sailors, sailing "not new boats.") Notice I didn't say "old boat" - I wouldn't want to insult My Mistress as my wife calls the boat. She (the Mistress) might take it out on me with a problem like facing @hvac&r tech.

I'd expect Beneteau to have a tech rep on the phone to support the owner and the Dealer tech rep on site. Sure hope so. If so then +1 for the Dealer and +1 for Beneteau. If panels are being opened on potentially live 120V circuits and the Dealer technician is not at the boat doing the work, "Do Not Pass Go - Do Not Collect $200."

If it is phone support only and you're troubleshooting live 120V circuits, its a lot like having your 18 year old son doing an emergency appendectomy on you in your living room with the doctor on the phone providing direction. Sure, it can be done and I"m sure has been at some point. But there are multiple opportunities for serious injury troubleshooting live 120V circuits plus the opportunity for sparks and fireworks if you have to open panels and "breach the plane of the panel" when circuits are live, as they say in the OSHA. If the circuits aren't live when you are doing this troubleshooting or you are just throwing switches, turning knobs and reading panel provided voltages and currents then the personal safety issue goes away. You could still damage equipment but equipment can be fixed. None of us know the plan except the OP so phone support only for no work on live circuits might be okay. Its done all the time in the compter "geek squad" type scenario but sometimes you just need to turn your computer over to a remote operator.

Best of luck @hvac&r tech and let us know. Since you appear to be a HVAC&R tech you may be fully versed on working on live circuits but we can only guess that from your handle.

 

[Rick486]

KISS. Good example when a team of digital wonders designs a sea going system.

 

[hvac&r tech]

I am all onboard with working With Beneteau’s dealer and their authorized experts- that’s just the way to do this when their first suggestion didn’t resolve the issues. Again thanks for the moral support. More people at the ready with helpful tips then my day job. Thanks. Out with the old in with the new- what weighs only about 5-7 tons but is also 700 tons?

 

[smokey73]

Looks like a Chiller at an industrial facility of some sort. Probably rated at 700 tons.

 

[hvac&r tech]

Quick progress update ladies and gents: my dealer and Beneteau worked with me to find the shore/gen manual transfer switch instructions in the book are opposite to installed. For the first two tries Friday recharging I had it right by accident, then when I tried to go back to manual transfer the third time I was patient and turned the handle the direction it says in book and thought I guess that’s where I’d had earlier sucess. Beneteau dealer cranked through all the stuff I’d already tried but when they still couldn’t figure out what was going on they called tech support at Beneteau, while I waited I did what I didn’t feel good about doing all weekend and took cover off transfer switch to investigate. Found that the connections to shore vs generator were exactly backwards to the book. Put together the switch closed to what the book says is generator position and charger and house ac power lit right up.

Texted dealer and they called back and had me do a few more tests because thetransfer switch does appear to be defective- won’t line up power without operating manual switch, they are on that and said I will get warranty consideration.

I had also told them about the alternator not charging, when dealer called back she had idea on that they got from Beneteau, had me check dc auto fuses,,sore enough the “battery positive” one is blown, running for new one now. Feel a little rookieish on that, the autofuse they used for that one glows red when blown!

I will keep eye on battery health too after the total drain.

Pleasure bouncing things off the forum you guys. Fair winds!

Kudos to Signature Yachts Seattle for going the extra mile working through a rather quirky problem that started with me thinking boat should be left with 12v on at dock since I had no shore power plug and didn’t want bilge pump to be without power. For what it’s worth it does say in manual to not leave boat like that for long. I got a pretty fast orientation and that wasn’t mentioned.

My old Hunter 30 on a mooring would be 3 inches down in the water when I got back to her if I left her like that for 3 weeks. As far as bilge pump goes, dealer says they are pretty sure the bilge pump on my boat will run straight off battery pos connection before house isolator even with isolator switch open and no 12v to power panel. Kind of makes the “auto” float choice of the switch redundant so that kind of threw me off that they’d have auto float and manual operation posible through switch that lights up different each mode when suposedly it’s permanently wired in auto/float mode without the whole switch panel even having power. Is everyone else’s like that? Permant hard wired to come on auto with float but two modes through switch as well?

cheers

 

[jssailem]

Found that the connections to shore vs generator were exactly backwards to the book. Put together the switch closed to what the book says is generator position and charger and house ac power lit right up.

Now that discovery makes sense. It supports the statements you made about the issues you were having. I know I said to break out the DVM but also understood that you have a brand new boat and woh would think that the factory or the dealer did not check the wiring and make sure it was the same as in the manual.

Nice that you discovered this annomaly.

I got a pretty fast orientation and that wasn’t mentioned.

This also is not a big surprise. During the excitement of getting the boat, new or slightly used, no sailor is ready for all the detail that is encompassed in the operation of the boat, be it a Hunter 30 our your beautiful new Beneteau 40.1. I have always thought there should be a call back about 3-4 days after delivery to come visit with the new owner just to chat and discuss the systems. Answer question and discuss the things that were missed or forgotten in the initial orientation.

Kind of makes the “auto” float choice of the switch redundant so that kind of threw me off that they’d have auto float and manual operation posible through switch that lights up different each mode when suposedly it’s permanently wired in auto/float mode without the whole switch panel even having power. Is everyone else’s like that? Permant hard wired to come on auto with float but two modes through switch as well?

I just rewired my boat. There are permanently on and momentary on breakers for the bilge pumps. Sometimes you may want to cause the pump to operate. It lets you know if the automatic switch is still functioning.

Thanks for the followup.

Once the issues are resolved, post a picture of your new boat here. We love boat pictures.

 

[Davidasailor26]

As far as bilge pump goes, dealer says they are pretty sure the bilge pump on my boat will run straight off battery pos connection before house isolator even with isolator switch open and no 12v to power panel. Kind of makes the “auto” float choice of the switch redundant so that kind of threw me off that they’d have auto float and manual operation posible through switch that lights up different each mode when suposedly it’s permanently wired in auto/float mode without the whole switch panel even having power. Is everyone else’s like that? Permant hard wired to come on auto with float but two modes through switch as well?

That’s exactly how it’s wired on the 2014 37. There is a wire straight off the battery side of the house switch (so always on) that goes through a fuse and to the float switch and pump. The auto side of the switch on the panel isn’t even connected to anything other than its own LED.

On the 37 that fuse also powers the memory circuit for the stereo, which adds a bit of parasitic draw, and also means if the stereo shorts out the bilge pump fuse blows, which is not ideal, so worth checking.

 

[smokey73]

Yea, show us pictures! Dont' have to wait till its all sorted though. We always like boat pictures. It helps is there is a "boat babe" in the picture as a bonus.

 

[MikeHoncho]

Given the results/what was found, I’d demand new batteries. 4 volts on AGMs is longevity murder no matter what they charge back to.

 

[smokey73]

Given the results/what was found, I’d demand new batteries. 4 volts on AGMs is longevity murder no matter what they charge back to.

I agree, but apparently I was "too demanding". While the batteries may not be toast, so to speak, but their life is certainly shortened and the owner is entitled to new batteries. As I said in my earlier post "If" the draining of the batteries was the result of something the dealer or Beneteau did then they should offer replacements without even the OP asking. But then again, I'm a when it comes to things like that. You don't have to be ugly to get results, but you do have to be persistent and make your case based on facts.

 

[hvac&r tech]

Back to Portland by midnight!

 

[smokey73]

Marie Katherine is a sleek looking lady. Not the classic lines many prefer, but sleek none the less. Tell us the origin of her name. Wife, Mother, Daughter, Sister, Mistress? Hope you did or are doing an appropriate naming ceremony. If you didn't maybe that is the source of the bad Ju-Ju.

 

[jssailem]

very nice.

 

[hvac&r tech]

Marie Katherine is a sleek looking lady. Not the classic lines many prefer, but sleek none the less. Tell us the origin of her name. Wife, Mother, Daughter, Sister, Mistress? Hope you did or are doing an appropriate naming ceremony. If you didn't maybe that is the source of the bad Ju-Ju.

Oh we Christened her, Monday (or maybe Tuesday) after Christmas in Seattle on Signature Yachts docks.

I’ve been scheming my next boat for 20 years. My only other vessel a ‘76 Hunter 30 I sailed since she was built until I gifted her in 2018.

The Christabel. My dad’s boat. Since it was our family boat and the love of my life for 42 years, with all kinds of personal memories I kinda thought(all the way up to last summer with the new Beneteau on order and scheduled to be built in September) I’d continue the tradition and call her Christabel II.

Then my older brother phoned me and said something came to mind that I might not have thought of when thinking about a name.

Our dad (who left us in 1978 right before my 18th birthday and only 2 sailing seasons after me and my brother passing the power squadron course and sailing all around southern New England as a family) named his boat after his mother in law, and my wife’s mom, Marie Katherine brought a whole lot of happiness to us all too, even had a few sails on the Christabel with my now late mother- we have some great photos.

So that was it, Marie Katherine (she’s 98 and unfortunately in sunsetting a long happy life, but she understood enough about getting a boat named after her to tell me how wonderful it felt) and I never was much of a fan of the sequel named boats anyway.

And talk about a big hit with my wife! Naming your boat after your wife’s mom is a brilliant move- thanks Dad.

The Seattle christening was pretty nuts, snowed with pretty good accumulation 20°, was hard planned (no weather cancellations) since my son flew in for Chistmas and it had to be done. Salesman thought we were crazy of course because bad luck to christen and not sail her maiden voyage- thank God for roller furling and mast furlers. My grandson 5 onboard of course. I was rushing buying the champagne and ad hoc planning the “ceremony” because I love awkward goofy family moments (when you don’t plan much but expect everyone to show up and be filmed for posterity, it makes some great material to look back on, the more painful to watch the funnier to me) My first ever boat Christening, besides the Navy Sub Trepang that I went to with my Dad in I think 1969. I googled what to do two nights before.
I upgraded to some $25 a bottle French champagne since boat was also built in France and Champagne not from Champagne euro snobs say isn’t really Chsmpagne at all, but I liked the bottle.

thing was it was real thick glass and with the snow and ice all over the dock and deck my boy couldn’t reach the anchor way out in front of rail to crack it, we decided on bow cleat. After the third bounce off, with the salesman filming and coaching “hit it hard right on the tip of the cleat” I noticed the aluminum cleat was bending as the strikes got more deliberate and called off my sons effort- the next strike might have cracked the gunwhale gelcoat!.
Luckily I’d brought one bottle to toast, one to smash and my wife got the open bottle from the cockpit and we poured the designated amount over the bow sprit- then we cast off.

you guys are going to hate me when I tell you that was also my turnover orientation day. It was rushed yes.

please forgive my overshare, it was a great day for me and my family culminating with turning into wind, rolling out the sails

 

[kappykaplan]

Well done, @hvac&r tech !

 

[smokey73]

No such thing as "overshare." Buying the boat of your dreams, great. Naming the boat after your Wife's Mother - Brilliant! How can she possibly encourage you to get rid of "Mom."