My main won't flake...
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On a boat under 30 ft. it is pretty simple ...
I pull the sail down from the front of the mast tugging down one side and then the other to start the accordian fold. Then working from the end of the boom follow the lead of the front folds and tie it off as you work up toward the mast. The benefit is that the sail actually sits lower on the mast as opposed to its natural tendancy to be all tugged down on one side of the boom. I don't think the sail has much memory on its own but starting the back and forth folds as the sail drops at the mast helps out a flake a lot. I just drop the sail and don't try to flake it on the way down ... just too much of a problem when you have pick up crew all trying to roll tuck fold anywhich way. Vic "Seven"
I pull the sail down from the front of the mast tugging down one side and then the other to start the accordian fold. Then working from the end of the boom follow the lead of the front folds and tie it off as you work up toward the mast. The benefit is that the sail actually sits lower on the mast as opposed to its natural tendancy to be all tugged down on one side of the boom. I don't think the sail has much memory on its own but starting the back and forth folds as the sail drops at the mast helps out a flake a lot. I just drop the sail and don't try to flake it on the way down ... just too much of a problem when you have pick up crew all trying to roll tuck fold anywhich way. Vic "Seven"
NIcely done, Vic
I use the same approach. When I first drop the sail I put just one tie around the middle to keep the sail off the deck. In case the motor quits I can raise sail in a hurry and sail the rest of the way in. I don't flake the sail until I know for sure the boat won't be moving for a while. Peter H23 "Raven"
I use the same approach. When I first drop the sail I put just one tie around the middle to keep the sail off the deck. In case the motor quits I can raise sail in a hurry and sail the rest of the way in. I don't flake the sail until I know for sure the boat won't be moving for a while. Peter H23 "Raven"
They just did an article in one of the magazines
Pull it to flake properly no matter how long it takes to get it right. Once you get it the way you want it, mark each fold on the outmost edge in green and red marker respectively to port and starboard. Do this a few times (it's a pain to get it exact over and over) and eventually it will "train" it to fold that way.
Pull it to flake properly no matter how long it takes to get it right. Once you get it the way you want it, mark each fold on the outmost edge in green and red marker respectively to port and starboard. Do this a few times (it's a pain to get it exact over and over) and eventually it will "train" it to fold that way.
I read that article in Good Old Boat...
But I think that was for newer sails, not an old sail like mine. The sail I have is OEM and is as old as the boat. So it is well worn without any damage. I'm going to try that when next I am on the boat. But I agree about keeping the sail ready in the event the OB quits (knocks on teak).
But I think that was for newer sails, not an old sail like mine. The sail I have is OEM and is as old as the boat. So it is well worn without any damage. I'm going to try that when next I am on the boat. But I agree about keeping the sail ready in the event the OB quits (knocks on teak).
flaking the mainsail
Vic pretty much reveals how most of us do it. Stand at the mast and pull the luff down, alternating the folds, then go back to the cockpit and pull the sail from the back to get the folds lined up. When things are hectic I usually just let the sail drop and then tie it off at the middle of boom till I get back to the slip where I refold it. As far as training the sail....I doubt you'll have any luck with that, especially an old one. I bought my current main 5 years ago and have used the same method the whole time and it still isn't "trained". You'll need to go to the mast to get the folds alternated, even with lazyjacks, so don't let it upset you. A fully battened main with a Dutchman flaking system will provide a hands free solution.
Vic pretty much reveals how most of us do it. Stand at the mast and pull the luff down, alternating the folds, then go back to the cockpit and pull the sail from the back to get the folds lined up. When things are hectic I usually just let the sail drop and then tie it off at the middle of boom till I get back to the slip where I refold it. As far as training the sail....I doubt you'll have any luck with that, especially an old one. I bought my current main 5 years ago and have used the same method the whole time and it still isn't "trained". You'll need to go to the mast to get the folds alternated, even with lazyjacks, so don't let it upset you. A fully battened main with a Dutchman flaking system will provide a hands free solution.
I'm not a sailmaker, but...........
I'm not a sailmaker, but I wish one would answer this post. Im not sure if flaking the same exact way everytime is a good thing or not. I actually try for randomness. Anytime you bend anything, you strecth the material on the outer radius and compress the material on the inner radius.
I'm not a sailmaker, but I wish one would answer this post. Im not sure if flaking the same exact way everytime is a good thing or not. I actually try for randomness. Anytime you bend anything, you strecth the material on the outer radius and compress the material on the inner radius.
i also not sailmaker!
but I've been told by them that one of the worst things to do to a sail is to fold it the same way each time. on dacron it breaks down the resin that binds the material. on kevlar/mylar it cracks the laminates. i have first hand knowledge of this on some of my sails. i have an old but seldom used 100 dacron that always was folded and put away most of the time. over the years it has taken on creases where it was folded. i have a couple of laminate sails that over time they have developed cracks in the laminates where they have had folds that ended up in the same place. S/V Que Pasa?
but I've been told by them that one of the worst things to do to a sail is to fold it the same way each time. on dacron it breaks down the resin that binds the material. on kevlar/mylar it cracks the laminates. i have first hand knowledge of this on some of my sails. i have an old but seldom used 100 dacron that always was folded and put away most of the time. over the years it has taken on creases where it was folded. i have a couple of laminate sails that over time they have developed cracks in the laminates where they have had folds that ended up in the same place. S/V Que Pasa?
flaking
capn jim. i'm sure catalina and lots of other boat builders who are now equipping their new boats with the dutchman flaking system would love to have your knowledge that flaking a sail the same way every time is harmful to the sail.
capn jim. i'm sure catalina and lots of other boat builders who are now equipping their new boats with the dutchman flaking system would love to have your knowledge that flaking a sail the same way every time is harmful to the sail.
Best fold is no fold
capn jim is right. Folding modern sailcloth at all is bad. Creasing is worse. Folding in the same place and direction is about the worst thing that you can do to a sail. However, flaking the main neatly without creasing the sail is no problem. Even the Dutchman people say that creasing is bad: "Be sure your sailcover fits loosely. A tight cover makde sharp creases, which will shorten your sail’s life." The best way to store a sail is to roll it. Flaking the sail with soft folds (no creases) is second, unless you put the sail ties too tight or the cover creases the sail. As soon as you try to fold a sail to fit into a sail bag, you have creased the cloth and damaged it (however slightly).
capn jim is right. Folding modern sailcloth at all is bad. Creasing is worse. Folding in the same place and direction is about the worst thing that you can do to a sail. However, flaking the main neatly without creasing the sail is no problem. Even the Dutchman people say that creasing is bad: "Be sure your sailcover fits loosely. A tight cover makde sharp creases, which will shorten your sail’s life." The best way to store a sail is to roll it. Flaking the sail with soft folds (no creases) is second, unless you put the sail ties too tight or the cover creases the sail. As soon as you try to fold a sail to fit into a sail bag, you have creased the cloth and damaged it (however slightly).
I've got a better idea
For those worried about creases in the sails, I have the answer. Don't take them out. Don't use them. Don't sail them. That way they last longer. Really guys, 'losely' flaking a quality dacron mainsail isn't going to be the end of a sail. Things like letting them flog or exposing them to UV rays are going to cause much more issues. I can't really say the same for laminates but I see a lot of of racers flaking their mains (and seen sailmakers deliverying that way). Though I can see how the laminates could be affected by creases
For those worried about creases in the sails, I have the answer. Don't take them out. Don't use them. Don't sail them. That way they last longer. Really guys, 'losely' flaking a quality dacron mainsail isn't going to be the end of a sail. Things like letting them flog or exposing them to UV rays are going to cause much more issues. I can't really say the same for laminates but I see a lot of of racers flaking their mains (and seen sailmakers deliverying that way). Though I can see how the laminates could be affected by creases
Who Knew
I sail a 25'. Usually I'm alone. I have a reefing system. As I drop the sail i pull in the reffing system, this pulls the sail down tight to the boom and gives me a long tail in the reefing line. Then I pull the sail down the rest of the way. God only knows if its left then right but its all on top of the boom. Then I wrap it with the tail of the reefing line. Then I put the sail cover on. The sail cover seems pretty snug but its not sooo snug that a couple of bats can't get in there REAL regularly. They stain they sails with their little bat droppings! Oh yeah did I mention mud daubers? Anyway . . . My sails are Dacron. I've had the boat for 5 years. I suspect the sails are at least 10 years old. I sail in the south so I can sail year round (ok a few times in the winter with warm socks but its better than nothing.) I don't race and performance is something I seek in the sack. (Not the stuff sack where my jib is, well, stuffed.) The sails have not been off the boat since I bought it. They seem ok to me. A little dirty but so am I. Oh yeah the guy I bought it from showed me how he handled the main so I suspect it has been delat with in the same way for 10 years with no apparant damage. Thinking of sending them off this year to have them cleaned and the seams checked. Had to stich up a small seam tear on the jib.
I sail a 25'. Usually I'm alone. I have a reefing system. As I drop the sail i pull in the reffing system, this pulls the sail down tight to the boom and gives me a long tail in the reefing line. Then I pull the sail down the rest of the way. God only knows if its left then right but its all on top of the boom. Then I wrap it with the tail of the reefing line. Then I put the sail cover on. The sail cover seems pretty snug but its not sooo snug that a couple of bats can't get in there REAL regularly. They stain they sails with their little bat droppings! Oh yeah did I mention mud daubers? Anyway . . . My sails are Dacron. I've had the boat for 5 years. I suspect the sails are at least 10 years old. I sail in the south so I can sail year round (ok a few times in the winter with warm socks but its better than nothing.) I don't race and performance is something I seek in the sack. (Not the stuff sack where my jib is, well, stuffed.) The sails have not been off the boat since I bought it. They seem ok to me. A little dirty but so am I. Oh yeah the guy I bought it from showed me how he handled the main so I suspect it has been delat with in the same way for 10 years with no apparant damage. Thinking of sending them off this year to have them cleaned and the seams checked. Had to stich up a small seam tear on the jib.
Another reason...
for roller furling mains!!! Mast and boom models! Are readers aware that 80% of customers for the new Catalina Morgan 440 optioned the in-boom furler by Leisure Furl? Me thinks the tide is turning in favor of boom furlers.
for roller furling mains!!! Mast and boom models! Are readers aware that 80% of customers for the new Catalina Morgan 440 optioned the in-boom furler by Leisure Furl? Me thinks the tide is turning in favor of boom furlers.
clarification!! roll is fine, crease is not !
creases are what kills sails, not rolls. if you've noticed racers don't flake and fold their sails. they roll, then put them in turtles. a loosely main flaked, then loosely tied won't harm it. tied very tightly will put creases in it. I get my info from a world class j-24 sailor/sailmaker, Max Skelly,(he made all my sails except for a couple, and they are still in good enough condition to still help us win in stiff competion after 15 years of heavy use) .he was number 2 in the j-24 worlds last year in England, No 1, if you don't count the broken rudder that knocked them out of two races) nuf said, i figure he just may know what he's talking about. S/V Que Pasa?
creases are what kills sails, not rolls. if you've noticed racers don't flake and fold their sails. they roll, then put them in turtles. a loosely main flaked, then loosely tied won't harm it. tied very tightly will put creases in it. I get my info from a world class j-24 sailor/sailmaker, Max Skelly,(he made all my sails except for a couple, and they are still in good enough condition to still help us win in stiff competion after 15 years of heavy use) .he was number 2 in the j-24 worlds last year in England, No 1, if you don't count the broken rudder that knocked them out of two races) nuf said, i figure he just may know what he's talking about. S/V Que Pasa?
Flaking & Rolling
I'm a big fan of Max Skelley ; he's made two Genoas and my now 3 year old loose footed main as well. The headsails are racing Genoas which we accordian flake; fold tack to clew in thirds, and tie loosely in their 6-7' long 'Mummy Bags' as instructed by Skelley Sails when we bought them. With the above folding sequence the sqil can be tacked on and hoisted right out of the bag, splitting the zipper as it hoists. The main is lowered with alternating folds at the mast, then I start 12"-16" alternating 'folds' over the boom from the outhaul forward, getting wider as we go forward, with a sail tie every three feet. For any of these sails or the previous main and 155 mylar Genoa, the 'folds' are loose flakes which don't actually repeat in the exact same place each time and aren't creased. One week the 155 is flaked 24" wide the nect it may be flaked 22" or the left hand flake may have been started as a right hand flake, etc. I do flake the 110 and roll it up from clew to tack in about a 26' width and store the rolled sail vertically in a sail bag. I's used much less often than the larger sails so it's'folds' probably do show as creases, but when re-folding I make a point of using slightly wider or narrower folds for that reason. That sail is 20 seasons old and not breaking down at all.
I'm a big fan of Max Skelley ; he's made two Genoas and my now 3 year old loose footed main as well. The headsails are racing Genoas which we accordian flake; fold tack to clew in thirds, and tie loosely in their 6-7' long 'Mummy Bags' as instructed by Skelley Sails when we bought them. With the above folding sequence the sqil can be tacked on and hoisted right out of the bag, splitting the zipper as it hoists. The main is lowered with alternating folds at the mast, then I start 12"-16" alternating 'folds' over the boom from the outhaul forward, getting wider as we go forward, with a sail tie every three feet. For any of these sails or the previous main and 155 mylar Genoa, the 'folds' are loose flakes which don't actually repeat in the exact same place each time and aren't creased. One week the 155 is flaked 24" wide the nect it may be flaked 22" or the left hand flake may have been started as a right hand flake, etc. I do flake the 110 and roll it up from clew to tack in about a 26' width and store the rolled sail vertically in a sail bag. I's used much less often than the larger sails so it's'folds' probably do show as creases, but when re-folding I make a point of using slightly wider or narrower folds for that reason. That sail is 20 seasons old and not breaking down at all.
Love Your Answer Old Salt......
Ahoy neighbor.......Old Salt...you nailed the answer on this one.....stay at the dock and don't use the boat or the sails....as for me, mine are 2 years old and are still in excellent shape despite flaking on the boom after each trip. Alive in the P'goula inner harbor....CD EXPRESS
Ahoy neighbor.......Old Salt...you nailed the answer on this one.....stay at the dock and don't use the boat or the sails....as for me, mine are 2 years old and are still in excellent shape despite flaking on the boom after each trip. Alive in the P'goula inner harbor....CD EXPRESS
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