My First Sailboat.
- Thread starter IrishRifles
- Start date
Some questions to help set the context:
1. How do you plan to use the boat? Daysail, Liveaboard or long term cruising?
2. If $5k is your purchase price and dockage runs $10 ft your looking at $3600 per year for dock space?
3. How much work can you do? Bottom jobs are time consuming and messy but not hard?
4. If a bottom job is $1,100-$1,950, and dockage is $3,600 and a dinghy is $1000 and new sails (did I mention those) are $3k and engine repairs run $2,500 (just a guess) your easily up to $15k+ and you haven't hardly gotten into the water yet.
A 30ft $5k boat will require significant effort to make it seaworthy, a $5k capri 22 would be almost new, can be easily stored on a trailer. The $1-2k budgeted for a bottom job would just about buy a complete bottom job AND new sails.
Think about how you plan to use the boat. If your living aboard then the larger boat would be nice. If your day sailing, When I had my Hunter 25 I used the the cabin for cooler storage and spend most of our time topsides where we have unlimited headroom.
Just some ideas, my advice (for what it's worth) skip the headroom (its only an issue if your down below), save the $$ and buy a smaller boat you can easily sail now. You can always move up when the time is right and you'll spend more time on the water NOW instead of $$ spent to get a bad boat into shape.
And remember a fundamental rule of boat ownership, for every foot in length the required number of boat bucks doubles.
Fair winds,
Victor
1. How do you plan to use the boat? Daysail, Liveaboard or long term cruising?
2. If $5k is your purchase price and dockage runs $10 ft your looking at $3600 per year for dock space?
3. How much work can you do? Bottom jobs are time consuming and messy but not hard?
4. If a bottom job is $1,100-$1,950, and dockage is $3,600 and a dinghy is $1000 and new sails (did I mention those) are $3k and engine repairs run $2,500 (just a guess) your easily up to $15k+ and you haven't hardly gotten into the water yet.
A 30ft $5k boat will require significant effort to make it seaworthy, a $5k capri 22 would be almost new, can be easily stored on a trailer. The $1-2k budgeted for a bottom job would just about buy a complete bottom job AND new sails.
Think about how you plan to use the boat. If your living aboard then the larger boat would be nice. If your day sailing, When I had my Hunter 25 I used the the cabin for cooler storage and spend most of our time topsides where we have unlimited headroom.
Just some ideas, my advice (for what it's worth) skip the headroom (its only an issue if your down below), save the $$ and buy a smaller boat you can easily sail now. You can always move up when the time is right and you'll spend more time on the water NOW instead of $$ spent to get a bad boat into shape.
And remember a fundamental rule of boat ownership, for every foot in length the required number of boat bucks doubles.
Fair winds,
Victor
Buying a 30 ft boat for $5000 and expecting Little additional investment is wishful thinking. It's not the cost of a survey and bottom paint that you need to consider as both are trivial compared with what you will need to safely sail it without becoming a danger or burden to the rest of us.
The best advice i can give you is do a lot of reading both here in the archives and in books about boat maintenance. Talk to friends who have boats. Find a sailing club at which you can volunteer to help others work on their boats.
You really need to better understand how to critically examine potential boats as, if you don't, you'll just end up buying someone else's liability.
The best advice i can give you is do a lot of reading both here in the archives and in books about boat maintenance. Talk to friends who have boats. Find a sailing club at which you can volunteer to help others work on their boats.
You really need to better understand how to critically examine potential boats as, if you don't, you'll just end up buying someone else's liability.
Irish, Don has given you some good advice. I would suggest you find a good condition 25-27 ft. trailerable boat and spend the next 3-5 years learning something about sailboats. Even better, continue to save money while you help others by crewing on their different boats for a few years. Join a local sailing club and show up for races. I wish you only the best, but from your posts, it sounds like you have pretty much EVERYTHING to learn. Good luck, brother.
Hello IrishRifles,
If you are concerned about being able to recognize the work required to make an old boat safe to sail...........Have you considered the skills needed to sail a boat from Daytona Beach to "the Keys"? I agree with the suggestion to join a sailing club/group of other skilled sailors and learn from them as you crew on daysails or short overnight outings. Within that realm of experiences you will be able to hone your skills in sailing and help other owners with repairs/bottom painting/maintenance/etc. Few sailors will refuse an offer to help or at least a request to watch them work!
Also, have you considered one of the "time share" boat club options? Frankly, I have only seen the ads and the positive comments of those who were trying to sell the time shares at boat shows. Just an option to explore.
If you are concerned about being able to recognize the work required to make an old boat safe to sail...........Have you considered the skills needed to sail a boat from Daytona Beach to "the Keys"? I agree with the suggestion to join a sailing club/group of other skilled sailors and learn from them as you crew on daysails or short overnight outings. Within that realm of experiences you will be able to hone your skills in sailing and help other owners with repairs/bottom painting/maintenance/etc. Few sailors will refuse an offer to help or at least a request to watch them work!
Also, have you considered one of the "time share" boat club options? Frankly, I have only seen the ads and the positive comments of those who were trying to sell the time shares at boat shows. Just an option to explore.
Irish, if you get close to Brunswick (about another hour or so above Jax) I would be glad to have you aboard for a daysail. I bought my boat in Fl, she was pretty much gutted, so may be able to give you an idea of what it took to get her seaworthy again. Nothing like getting your boots on and below many different decks to see what works for you.
Howdy IrishRifles,
You sound like the sort of fellow who still has his first nickel. Don is right that your expectations may be a tad unrealistic. I don't know anybody who is going to sell a $20 k boat to you for $5 k. Basically, you'll have to bide your time for as long as it takes to find that deal. It will be a combination of patience and luck, and maybe you have both. When you find it, more power to you.
It won't help to spout-off about all the bad deals and crooks you run into. You're going to need to win somebody over so they want to do a favor for you. You won't win anybody over if you look at everybody with a sideways glance. Maybe you should come to grips with a few misconceptions you might have. $10 per foot per month sounds like a pretty fair price to me. But the locations where slips as cheap as that can be found will be marked by compromise ... questionable location, poor access, fewer services, etc. Great deals don't stay vacant for long. When the price is too good to be true, generally, people who are less inclined to clutch their dollars like the grip on a lifeline that prevents one from going over the cliff are going to snap it up ... and soon prices rise as the market adjusts.
We all get it ... you want to sail on a small budget. I also sympathize with you for not wanting to settle for a boat that is in poor condition and/or too small to make you comfortable. I think you will need to spend $20 k for the boat you're looking for. Either that, or get real lucky.
You sound like the sort of fellow who still has his first nickel. Don is right that your expectations may be a tad unrealistic. I don't know anybody who is going to sell a $20 k boat to you for $5 k. Basically, you'll have to bide your time for as long as it takes to find that deal. It will be a combination of patience and luck, and maybe you have both. When you find it, more power to you.
It won't help to spout-off about all the bad deals and crooks you run into. You're going to need to win somebody over so they want to do a favor for you. You won't win anybody over if you look at everybody with a sideways glance. Maybe you should come to grips with a few misconceptions you might have. $10 per foot per month sounds like a pretty fair price to me. But the locations where slips as cheap as that can be found will be marked by compromise ... questionable location, poor access, fewer services, etc. Great deals don't stay vacant for long. When the price is too good to be true, generally, people who are less inclined to clutch their dollars like the grip on a lifeline that prevents one from going over the cliff are going to snap it up ... and soon prices rise as the market adjusts.
We all get it ... you want to sail on a small budget. I also sympathize with you for not wanting to settle for a boat that is in poor condition and/or too small to make you comfortable. I think you will need to spend $20 k for the boat you're looking for. Either that, or get real lucky.
A 30' boat for $3500 is actually a $15k-$20k boat once you get it sorted after a year or two of hard work. It is just the way it is.
We bought a smaller and less expensive boat and took a few week+ trips before we decided to invest in our current 30.
You may get lucky finding a boat but probably not.
On the marina thing, you get what you pay for. $10 is not that bad. Titusville is $8 but 4 hours from getting outside at Canaveral. Very nice Marina.
Svknotaclew.wordpress.com
We bought a smaller and less expensive boat and took a few week+ trips before we decided to invest in our current 30.
You may get lucky finding a boat but probably not.
On the marina thing, you get what you pay for. $10 is not that bad. Titusville is $8 but 4 hours from getting outside at Canaveral. Very nice Marina.
Svknotaclew.wordpress.com
Well, it looks like here's where you asked for a 20k boat for 5...
Right here:
And then, your talk of making that 30 foot, 5k boat into a 20k boat, as The Garbone and Scott have pointed out.
It's a boat...
On a 30 foot sailboat in the $5k range, I wouldn't be amazingly concerned about the bottom. It's going to be old, with uneven paint, blisters, scrapes. The bottom is not going to give out- it's solid glass. Usually. A bad bottom is an issue with a racer, but not really for a new sailor on a tight budget...unless it's unbelievably bad, then of course you can probably find a better one.
The bigger worries are the engine and its ancillaries IE: trans, shaft, tank, etc., the sail rig, and the keel. Don't fret over moisture in the decks on a 5k boat, unless your rig is attached to it IE: bulkhead mounted chainplates.
If it floats, the motor runs and drives, the rig is safe and usable, and the keel and rudder aren't going to fall off, those are your primary concerns. I'd also peak at the wiring, anywhere you can find it.
You don't want fire, hull breach, keel or rig failure. Anything else that breaks will be less than catastrophic.
I would seriously look at a Catalina 27 - 70's vintage. Solid boats, easy to work on, easy to sail. And cheap. I'll wager you can find one in your price, or even lower. An outboard version might be the simplest; a diesel will command more $.
Regarding headroom, the 27 is not bad - you will still need to stoop. However, much of your time will be spent in the cockpit. Even in the cabin you're usually sitting or laying down anyway. It won't be fabulous, but you'll get used to the low roof.
In a 30, you might look at an old Pearson or Bristol 30. Bulletproof builds, and usually restorable, if that's something you want to eventually do.
Sorry if I've repeated anyone - I didn't read the whole thread
Good luck.
Edit: This is an example of exacly what I'm referring to in a Catalina 27:
http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/42527
The bigger worries are the engine and its ancillaries IE: trans, shaft, tank, etc., the sail rig, and the keel. Don't fret over moisture in the decks on a 5k boat, unless your rig is attached to it IE: bulkhead mounted chainplates.
If it floats, the motor runs and drives, the rig is safe and usable, and the keel and rudder aren't going to fall off, those are your primary concerns. I'd also peak at the wiring, anywhere you can find it.
You don't want fire, hull breach, keel or rig failure. Anything else that breaks will be less than catastrophic.
I would seriously look at a Catalina 27 - 70's vintage. Solid boats, easy to work on, easy to sail. And cheap. I'll wager you can find one in your price, or even lower. An outboard version might be the simplest; a diesel will command more $.
Regarding headroom, the 27 is not bad - you will still need to stoop. However, much of your time will be spent in the cockpit. Even in the cabin you're usually sitting or laying down anyway. It won't be fabulous, but you'll get used to the low roof.
In a 30, you might look at an old Pearson or Bristol 30. Bulletproof builds, and usually restorable, if that's something you want to eventually do.
Sorry if I've repeated anyone - I didn't read the whole thread
Good luck.
Edit: This is an example of exacly what I'm referring to in a Catalina 27:
http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/42527
Bottom line is, you aren't ready to buy a boat. You really don't have a grasp on what it costs to own and maintain a sailboat.
In 1989 I bought an Islander 30 for $5000. I striped her to a bare hull and rebuilt her. If you are concerned about having to pay someone to paint the bottom you have no business even considering owning a boat if your purchase budget is that small. The only way you will be able to afford a 30 foot $5000 sailboat is if you are able to do every bit of the work required to make and keep it seaworthy.
It is offensive to ask a question or request advice... then argue with the answer. Folks here are taking the time to give you the real life answer, not the one you want to hear.
Go buy a Cat 22 pop top for your headroom issue... you can get a nice one in sail away shape that's within your budget..... gather some sailing and cruising experience, mellow out.. and get back to us about your experience.
Go buy a Cat 22 pop top for your headroom issue... you can get a nice one in sail away shape that's within your budget..... gather some sailing and cruising experience, mellow out.. and get back to us about your experience.
I suppose I stirred IrishRifles up with my somewhat sarcastic reply. But I got a negative vibe from him when he seemed to be insinuating that because he couldn't find the boat he wants at the price he wants to pay, all of us sailboat owners have an inflated view for the worth of our boats and that some of us are cheats for what is offered in his price range. I didn't see his reply since he must have pulled it over night.
I liked Woodster's reply ... as usual, he gets to the heart of the matter with few words!
I liked Woodster's reply ... as usual, he gets to the heart of the matter with few words!
Just noticed this morning that I/R posts removed.
I was following this, I agree with Scott, it was starting to turn ugly, the guy was not realistic at all.
I was following this, I agree with Scott, it was starting to turn ugly, the guy was not realistic at all.
