My first on-the-river breakdown

thinwater · May 31, 2011

ray carlson said:
if your fuel line primer bulb is more than two years old replace it first,chaneces are it will fix your problem.if not you'll have a spare.the ethanol thing is a big myth. we've had mandatory blended fuel in AZ for almost thirty years now with no problems at all with engine problems auto or marine, the only thing that would cause problems with it would be if you had water in your tank you might get corrosion and filter fouling

Although I agree that MOST of the e-10 thing is myth, or rather blaming everything on a convinient boogy man, you may not have expereinced the one factor that makes e-10 troublesome; humidity. E-10 draws water from the air, it is this wate rthat causes the trouble, and so I would not expect any troubles in Arizona. I'm glad for you.

One mistake that may have contributed is that the OP left his fuel tank empty. This allows breathing and breathing admits water. Make certain your cap does not leak and always fill your tank AFTER sailing, not on the way out. There is no additive that will effectivly stabilize water in e-10, no matter what the advertising claims; I've done the lab tests and published the results in print. It's all about keep the fuel dry.

Separated fuel can cause 4 problems, and the OP may have had all of them:
1. The filter can plug, as many filters are designed to swell and rejedct water.
2. Water causes corrosion, and the corrosion particles do a great job of plugging the carb.
3. The separated later will sort of burn, sometimes, but it runs very poorly.
4. The engine is NOT getting lubed (the oil is not in the water layer).
Note tha tthe separated layer is NOT water; it is generally about 70-85% ethanol.

An e-10 posting that may be of interst:
http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/2010/04/epa-memo-on-e-10-and-phase-separation.html

Stu Jackson · May 31, 2011

Carb info

Does anyone have a link to a good, basic carb rebuilt/service website?

I have a 9.9 hp Evinrude 2 stroke, 1990.

MrUnix · May 31, 2011

Stu Jackson said:
Does anyone have a link to a good, basic carb rebuilt/service website?

I have a 9.9 hp Evinrude 2 stroke, 1990.

Google is your friend! There are lots of sites dedicated to carb repair, but you need to know what carb you have. The good news is that these carbs are super simple to work on, have rebuild kits readily available for them, and have simple adjustments. Most times, just a good teardown, cleaning and replacing of parts with those supplied in the rebuild kit will cause it to run like new again.

As for the Evinrude 9.9.. here is a site that should give you information overload:

http://www.sschapterpsa.com/ramblings/Johnson 9.9_15.htm

Cheers,
Brad

Bill Roosa · May 31, 2011

It is not that hard to rebuild these things. They only have two circuits, idle and run. And run is apparently working OK

w4pyleii · May 31, 2011

Mercury 5hp 2-stroke acted up on me this spring. After the winter I took it out and it started on the first pull, ran good for maybe 10 minutes, then stalled out at low speeds. Could only get it to run while choked. Pulled the carb off, took the bowl out, and there was some gel'd fuel in it. Even running the motor dry you're going to have some small amounts of gas left over, and those can gel up on you. I spent maybe 5 minutes getting the gel out I could see, blowing on it a bit, put it back together and it fired right up. Runs great now, low idle, no choke, etc. These small motors are so simple it should take you 30 minutes to pull the carb off and break it down and clean it up a bit.

JVB · May 31, 2011

jrussnogle said:
...... My mechanic also recommends always using premium gas only. Has higher octane and eliminates the ethanol question, whether it exists or not.

Here is a simple test to determine if your gasoline is alcohol contaminated:

1. Find a tall slender clear bottle. A chemistry test tube or graduated cylinder is best.

2. Fill it about 20% with water.

3. Very carefully mark the exact top of the water.

4. Fill the tube nearly to the top with the gasoline you want to test.

5. Cap the bottle or test tube. Shake it for about a minute.

6. Let it sit for a minute then note the water level. If it is higher than before then the
fuel contained alcohol which was absorbed into the water.

Do NOT count on premium gasoline being alcohol free everywhere. High octane is NOT better for an engine that is designed for low octane fuel.

Herrick18911 · May 31, 2011

My experience with outboards is that when you have to keep the choke out to get it to run you have bad fuel, fuel that has started to turn to varnish. You say you put in fresh fuel but the fuel that was in there may have started to turn and you now have varnish in the jets or carb. My suggestion is to run carb / fuel line cleaner through the engine and you will see improvement. Keep fuel stabilizer in your fuel to keep the fuel from seperating and turning to varnish.

timebandit · May 31, 2011

About the 100 to 1 mix, yes Yamaha has used it for years but you should use an oil marked TC-W3. You can usually tell this oil because it has a the mix ratio of 100 to 1 listed on the lable with the other ratios.

As for the not wanting to idle I would first change out the gas and fill with fresh gas and then with the motor in a can (or on the boat) see if you have the problem.

If the problem still exist try raising the fuel tank above the engine once started as this will gravity feed the engine and eliminate the carb as a problem if the problem goes away.

Since the engine runs fas under a load with out a problem we can presuppose that the tank pick up is plugged.

Now we are down to the hose and the fuel pump. If it was the fuel pump I would not expect it to run at high speed.

That leaves the hose from the tank to the motor that may have a pin hole in it or maybe when you disconected the fuel line to take the tank off the boat to get gas you didn't reattach the hose enuff and there is a slight air leak causing your problem.

Check the hose by using a substitute hose with the tank (or gas can) held below the motor and if the problem still exists it is the fuel pump.

good luck

trouble shooting is a skill not just hit and miss or luck.

exs · May 31, 2011

change the gas tank

The old metal cans are usually made of steel and will rust. The ethanol and resulting water contamination only exacerbates this problem. The particles can be very small and hard to see, but the filter and the needle jets will catch and clog with them. I had to change the filter and clean the carb a few times before switching out the tank. After that... no more problems.

moehorenfeldt · May 31, 2011

Ethyl Alcohol (ethanol) is hydroscopic. That means, although it mixes well in gasoline, it also absorbs and mixes with water. If you run the engine "dry", I'll bet you leave a little residue in the bowl, which is like varnish. When you fill the bowl with ethanol fuel, the varnich is dissolved and clogs your low speed jet. Find out where that is, remove and clean it!

Interlude · May 31, 2011

I have experience the same symptoms with a 8hp Yamaha. Turned out to be a blocked idle bypass. Simply fixed by removing the cab, pulling it apart and blowing air (I used a compressor) through the small openings and orifices.

Rick9671 · May 31, 2011

ooutboard motor cures

I have had problems with the carburator float valve being stuck shut by varnish from old fuel.

If you do remove or attempt to adjust or accidentily disturb the mixture screws on the carburator, the basic setting for them is to gently turn them clockwise until they are seated, (closed) then turn them counterclockwise 1 1/2 turns (open). This setting will be within 1/4 turn of optimum for most older motors. If you turn the screw (clockwise) too tightly, you may damage the screw tip.

sailingdog · Jun 1, 2011

How old is the motor? On a lot of older gasoline-powered equipment, the fuel hoses weren't designed with ethanol-blend fuels in mind and are prone to degradation by the alcohol content of today's gasoline. That could easily lead to the carb jets fouling, and the symptoms you're having.

doehunter · Jun 1, 2011

I had the same problem on my 8hp Honda too!
It's not the alcohol, its something clogging the low speed jet.
On mine, I cleaned the carb, and it didn't help at first. I then learned, that there is a low speed needle valve that was hidden by a plug. I removed that, cleaned it again, and it's all good now.

Rob2435 · Jun 1, 2011

I would first clean the carb running two strokes on snowmobiles and similar problems on my 4 stroke outboard - it always seemed to solve the problem. If it doesn't then you know it's either the fuel filter, gas or jetting (rich/lean settings). 9 times out of 10 a clean carb usually solves the problem. Take it apart, clean and soak in carb cleaner.

dscribner · Jun 1, 2011

Sort of had the same thing happen.

It was a warm afternoon and we decided that instead of heading north for a romantic interlude at Richmond Island with 300 of my closest boat-buddies within earshot, we'd head S-SE to York Village to enjoy the high life. Bikinis and beer bellies were in full bloom that time of year and The Goldenrod (kudos to whoever gets that without the internet) was at full caloric capacity. Night started to fall and we were still a mile or so way, so we decided to (head hung low) start the kicker. I pulled, she jumped, whimpered and died. I tried again, several more times with the same result. Then I noticed that whenever I primed the motor, it reeked of gasoline. Upon closer inspection, it was spraying, pouring or dribbling out of the hose connector at the motor. I theorized that there was a seal that had gone and something had to be done. I search frantically for some chewing gum, but we don't chew. So, I ended up cutting a thin strip of electrical tape and, wrapping it tightly around the nipple, sealing the plastic body to the motor housing. She started up and we got to anchor in time for . . . shoot, the kid's here again . . . pizza. We were all set because the jury rig repair only had to get us in. There would be wind abounding in the morning to get us home!

Sunday, 3:30, we pulled into the river. 7 hours of constant motoring, NO wind and a constant heavy drizzle. I looked on the bright side. At least the motor hadn't fallen off in 100 ft of water. That was next time!

Fair Winds and fairer windings!

Eric3638 · Jun 1, 2011

Lots of great comments!! I have a 983 Honda 7.5hp, I had no issues at all with the motor until last year, the motor ran rough, hard to start, even using the choke to keep running work only for a short period of time. I rebuilt the carb and that lasted only for a short time (2 outings). I was still using the original metal fuel tank, and that was the culprit that was causing the problems. With metal tanks and ethanol based fuels rusting becomes an issue. DITCH the metal tank!!!! I got a plastic Honda tank and have never looked back. My issue now is finding parts for this outboard. Goodluck with your issues.

timebandit · Jun 1, 2011

There is allways rule #1 to contend with----

RULE #1
THE LAST THING YOU MUCKED WITH IS THE FIRST THING TO SCREW UP.

tallswede · Jun 2, 2011

The ethanol thing is definately not a myth. I have several motorcycles both 2 & 4 stroke as well as several outboards. 1985 4 hp Johnson 2stroke, mid 80's 25 hp Mercury, and 2008 9 hp Tohatsu 4stroke outboards. I have learned to ALWAYS run Sta-bil (they have a new formula for ethanol fuels) in my gas. I use it in my dirt bikes and boats because they don't get used every day. In fact they sometimes sit for months with out being used. I also use decarbonizer in my 2 stroke gas. I live on the Texas Gulf Coast where it's very humid and I've seen the damage ethanol fuels can do to fuel systems. Just one month in my weedeater when I forgot to use fuel stabilizer caused corrosion damage to the carb. Draining doesn't always help as one poster already mentioned because the little bit of ethanol in the fuel puddles in the bottom of the float bowls and collects water.

Kevin