Moving some hardware - options for filling old screw holes?

dfp51

.
Jun 26, 2019
42
O'Day 28 Lorain, Ohio
Hello, now that winter is upon us, I am planning on replacing/moving some hardware on our 1984 O'Day 28. Specifically, I plan on removing the single bow horn cleat and replacing it with two horn cleats set off toward each side of the bow. In addition, the previous owner used two sets of horn cleats to tie off the spinnaker and genoa sheets. We are contemplating swapping those out for cam cleats.

A couple of questions.
1) I am planning on using 6 inch cleats in either stainless or aluminum for the bow cleats. Is that the appropriate size & material? The cleats will be used primarily for dock lines, if that isn't obvious.

2)There are no backing plates visible on the current horn cleats, just thru bolts and flat washers. My thought is to add an aluminum backing plate. Is that over kill?

3)Any reason not to swap out the horn cleats for cam cleats on the genoa and spinnaker sheets? Our last boat (a Seidelmann 25) used cam cleats with a fairlead in that application, and they were far easier to use than the horn cleats. The head sail on this boat is much bigger though, and I am a little concerned on the cam cleat holding tension on the working sheet. Any thoughts?

4)What are my options for filling the holes in the deck left by removal of the old hardware? I assume the standard answer is buy some epoxy, mix it up and try and tint it close to the color of the deck? Are there any other options that won't involve a high probability of me spilling epoxy all over the boat, myself and others?

Thanks in advance for any help.
 
Jun 29, 2010
1,287
Beneteau First 235 Lake Minnetonka, MN
Not sure on 1 & 2, probably fine with either for 1 and a backing plate is rarely a bad idea. I would use Harken 150's for #3, easier to release. As for 4, West System epoxy and some 404 thickener. Don't fear the epoxy, it's really not that hard to do.
 
May 17, 2004
5,032
Beneteau Oceanis 37 Havre de Grace
For #1, do you have an anchor roller? If so, consider if/how you’ll be able to run your anchor rode if the cleats aren’t in line with the roller.
For #4, Epoxy is probably the way to fill the holes, but you’ll need a topcoat or something other than plain old thickened epoxy, as epoxy by itself isn’t UV stable.
 
Jan 1, 2006
7,040
Slickcraft 26 Sailfish
The epoxy usually sags. Hopefully you have access from below and can tape off the holes so the epoxy doesn't run through. Even the "Thick as peanut butter" will sag and even run. The good news is that you can put gel coat over the sagged epoxy if the sag isn't too much. You can also use a countersink bit to create room for the gel coat if necessary.
As far as horn cleats in the cockpit I try to avoid them since one of my crew impaled her leg on one while rounding a mark.
There shouldn't be that much on the spinnaker sheets or genoa sheets since they first have up to three wraps on the winch.
 
Nov 9, 2012
2,500
Oday 192 Lake Nockamixon
Backing plates for a cleat is NEVER a bad idea. Aluminum threaded for fasteners is certainly an option, but be sure to coat SS bolts with Ultra Tef-gel to reduce galvanic corrosion. Also, while you're doing holes, you should "pot" them so there won't be any core rot: Sealing Deck Penetrations To Prevent Core Rot You could use pieces of G10 board, available at www.mcmaster.com, which is a fiberglass resin composite that won't rot. You could make your own G10-like pieces with layers of glass and resin laid up on piece of glass, or flat surface covered well with packing tape. Plywood is less recommended as a backing plate, because of the potential for fastener leaking to eventually rot the plywood, which is why you should always countersink the fastener hole to allow greater bonding area with fastener and deck, regardless of sealant you use: Rebedding Deck Hardware With Bed-It Butyl Tape I would never use Starboard, or other high molecular weight polyethylene board, because polyethylene tends to creep under compression load, and you'd always have to be tightening the fasteners.

As for filling existing holes, if you just pour your favorite thickened epoxy into the hole, it will eventually pop. The preferred method would be to fill the hole and glass over it. Which seems kinda overkill. When replacing a section of my rub rail, I found almost 2x the number of holes than actually used for fasteners, so definitely a source of my leaking. I was all prepared to fill the holes and glass over them, which would be an easy enough yet involved and time consuming job, but then I talked to the former parts manager of O'day, and he said he'd just fill the holes with 5200. These were for SS screws, relative small hole diameter. I figured that repair would have flexibility, and would last at least as long as I plan to keep living, so, that's what I did. Not sure if that would be a great solution for exposed holes in the deck, what with UV degradation. I'm not sure of the UV resistance of cured 5200 polyurethane.

A lot of times a horn cleat for sheets, particularly jib sheets, is really a jam cleat. You can see under one side of the cleat the gap tapers, allowing you to wrap the sheet around the one side, then it jams under the other side. Fairly quick and easy. But cam cleats can work too. My little 192 had Shaeffer cam cleats on the aft edge of the cabin for jib sheets, and they were horrible. I replaced them with Harken H150 with high angle fairleads. But my jib is fairly small compared to a 28.
 

dfp51

.
Jun 26, 2019
42
O'Day 28 Lorain, Ohio
Thanks everyone. I think the horn cleats (they aren’t jam cleats) are going away in favor of some Harken 150’s. I appreciate you all steering me away from the epoxy fill. I have used 5200 before, just didn’t think about it for this application. I will check out Marine Tex as well.

I will need to do some thinking about the cleat on the bow, because we do have a bow roller and I didn’t think about making the anchor fast with an offset cleat. I really don’t want three cleats on the bow, but tying off to a single cleat with the bow lines running under the anchor rode is both very busy and a huge chafe risk (or so it seems).
 
Nov 9, 2012
2,500
Oday 192 Lake Nockamixon
There's always Marine Tex, last refuge of scoundrels like myself, got a white or gray hull you don't have to colormatch.
Marine-Tex® Epoxy Putty | Marine Tex
I've used white Marine Tex to fill some cracks in the past, and after about 3 or 4 years, I think it degrades in UV. (Which I expect any epoxy would do.) Gonna have to refill some of those repairs.

I've taken to spray painting epoxy repairs with the closest color I can find. I'll go to the hardware store and buy like 4 or 5 cans that almost look the same, spray a test blob on posterboard to check the color, and then keep the closest. It's not a perfect match, but, hey, it's a 35 year old boat. Trying to train myself that close enough is good enough, especially since I don't want to get into the dark arts of gelcoat color matching!
 

dfp51

.
Jun 26, 2019
42
O'Day 28 Lorain, Ohio
“it's a 35 year old boat. Trying to train myself that close enough is good enough, especially since I don't want to get into the dark arts of gelcoat color matching!”

Yeah, I definitely hear you on both points! Trying to find the sweet spot by doing it “right” without turning myself into a raving lunatic. It’s supposed to be fun after all, right?

I found a post last night on another board where the guy potted the old holes like MainSail recommends and then countersunk some stainless machine screws. Not ideal, but it would be clean, solid and probably not look horrible. That might be an option
 
Last edited:
Jan 22, 2008
8,050
Beneteau 323 Annapolis MD
You might go to 8-inch cleats on the bow. There will certainly come a time when you will want to put 2 lines on a cleat. Especially when the storms come.
 
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