Moving Lead Acid Batteries to inside the cabin

[smokey73]

I'd highly recommend reading the top three reports from 2024

dj

I am not sure how those reports relate directly to the location of batteries. I don't see much in there where the location of the batteries had any impact on the ability of the vessel to have avoided the incident. Of course, flooding of the batteries would cause the loss of the billge pump but in those first three reports the issue appeared to be the flooding beyond the ability of the bilge pumps to keep up with the rate of taking on water. The location of the batteries would only have delayed the point at which it became a "point of no return.

@jssailem with your batteries in the area under your salon settee now, not sure if the location of the batteries would have had much impact. It was apparent that your bilge pump was not keeping up with the water ingress. The level rose to one foot above your salon deck, which in only a few more inches would have flooded the batteries in the location below the salon seats. The issue is actually that the bilge pump could not keep up with the water ingress. The location of the batteries is a matter of when, not if, the batteries were flooded.

 

[dLj]

I am not sure how those reports relate directly to the location of batteries. I don't see much in there where the location of the batteries had any impact on the ability of the vessel to have avoided the incident. Of course, flooding of the batteries would cause the loss of the billge pump but in those first three reports the issue appeared to be the flooding beyond the ability of the bilge pumps to keep up with the rate of taking on water. The location of the batteries would only have delayed the point at which it became a "point of no return.

In all three cases the batteries were located where they could keep the bilge pumps running long enough to give the crew enough time to effect a rescue. With batteries located in the bilge area, that would not have been the case. In the case of S/Y Solution that would have been substantially less time than necessary given their location and the length of time for the Coast Guard to arrive to air lift the crew off. In the case of SV Alliance, they would have not likely had power to run the VHF and lights long enough for the S/Y Ceilidh clearly see them and locate them at the early hour they arrived. In the case of S/Y Gunga Din, they were located through their AIS and VHF by S/Y Desna. If their batteries had flooded out, that might not have been as easily done.

I would never locate my batteries that low in the boat. My battery system is located under my aft bunk. By the time water would reach a level to short them out, my boat would be 3/4's full of water. I'd prefer loosing my batteries to take as absolutely long as possible if a hull breach of that magnitude were to occur. I want my emergency communications and bilge pumps to run as long as possible to allow the best possible outcome. You can take it for what it's worth to you.

dj

 

[smokey73]

@DL thanks for the perspective. Always glad to hear different thoughts. I was looking at it only from the perspective of the bilge pump not being able to keep up with the water ingress and thus loss of the boat. I see your point that the battery location buys more time for use of the vital electrical systems and that is certainly a consideration. I have checked the area under my aft bunk and there is no room there (That was my first choice) Probably the easiest place to relocate them to would be under the sink and that has the advantage of being easy to access with the least amount of "modification" to do the relocation.

 

[smokey73]

@jssailem I think I see a lot of "exposed" electrical connections in the area where your batteries used to be located. While your batteries are now in a higher place, wouldn't the same event taking on water to the level where the electrical connections are located result in the same ultimate outcome: shorting out the electrical system when the water reaches that location, even though the batteries themselves are protected for longer? Just asking what was the gain it moving up the batteries and leaving the exposed electrical connections.

 

[jssailem]

In my reconstruction, after the flooding, the cables were moved and replaced.

 

[Rick D]

I think putting the house bank in the bilge hollow would be possible but somewhat difficult. In fact, the starter battery is located on a fiberglass platform in the keel hollow (bilge) at the top of the third (aft most) portion of the very large and deep bilge that is formed by the keel hollow.. @Rick D do you have any info on how to contact the guy or where you saw the info? @dLj the keel hollow, which forms the bilge is about 4 feet deep by 1.5 feet wide by probably 8 or more feet long. It is a very big bilge holding about 360 to 400 gallons. Putting it there doesn't occupy otherwise valuable storage space. If I get that much water in the boat and my bilge pump won't keep up with it I'm probably in big trouble anyway.

I've identified two other possible locations.
One is under the Port Settee. Problem is that directly under the proposed battery location is a sole piece that has to slide out to access the large center bilge
Right on the centerline so that is good but will make accessing that portion of the bilge difficult.

The other is under the galley sink. The sole there is fixed and I can attach secure anchor points for the 2 batteries. I will have to move the white drain line for the sink but that will not be too difficult. Just off center to the port. Only about 6 to 8 foot one way to the panel. Current battery to panel is over 20 feet one way.

Any thoughts?

I think they were lost when the site was reconstructed. Perhaps I can find it within the owner directory, but it was many years ago.

 

[dLj]

@DL thanks for the perspective. Always glad to hear different thoughts. I was looking at it only from the perspective of the bilge pump not being able to keep up with the water ingress and thus loss of the boat. I see your point that the battery location buys more time for use of the vital electrical systems and that is certainly a consideration. I have checked the area under my aft bunk and there is no room there (That was my first choice) Probably the easiest place to relocate them to would be under the sink and that has the advantage of being easy to access with the least amount of "modification" to do the relocation.

For sure it's always a space consideration. I lost a lot of storage space in my aft cabin but I have enough space left.

I feel it is a concern given what I posted before. It does depend upon how your are sailing. I was planning for ocean crossings. That said, all three of those boats were in the Bermuda to Newport race and with a lot of crew. I feel in short handed sailing it becomes more of a concern. But that's just my opinion.

Under the sink is good, you'll loose kitchen storage but you need to look at your boat and see how that affects how you both sail and what you want for storage. It's never easy.

dj

 

[MFD]

I would vote for low, but above the salon floor.
For the 'batteries still work while boat is partly sinking' scenario.
In fact, I just went through this decision with a LifePO4 upgrade needing fewer batteries.
From the factory, the house bank was split between the bilge area and the under the nav station seat.
Now I some more free storage in the bilge area.

I don't think I have ever been on a sailboat where the batteries were not somewhere accessible in the cabin.
I have never seen (or even heard of) forced ventilation or anything like that.
Just batteries in proper battery boxes, lashed down or otherwise unable to move more than 1" in any direction, and in a locker or elsewhere that is not entirely sealed up tight.

 

[MikeHoncho]

Although all charging batteries produce hydrogen, the real issue is with confined spaces and/or excessive heating of the electrolyte due to over charging and/or lack of electrolyte. Wherever you place them plan on needing to replace electrolyte routinely and consider a fill system if difficult to access. All of my wet acid battery issues stem from lack of electrolyte then the cells overheat due to the charger sensing low voltage and cook them even more. If you have a CO detector in the space, anticipate false alarms. Most (if not all) do not have hydrogen filters for the CO sensors.

 

[smokey73]

Thanks all for the discussion and input. If I have to build something to allow putting something in the upper area of the deep bilge, I could construct something as "storage" easier than a battery platform with hold downs and all that. If I need the storage, I could put stuff there that if it were to flood it would be "loss of stuff" like beer, water, canned food, etc. That way if water were to rise in the bilge to where that storage area would be threatened I could move it or just accept I'd lose it. Although a CLOBA (Compete Loss of Beer Accident) would be sad, it would not be catastrophic. So, under the sink it is. Thanks again.