Good day all, I would like your opinion on moving the chain plates on an Oday 25 from the outboard to the inbord of the decks, probably 4~6 inches and at the same time cuttinng the speaders by the same lenght. I would then add tension adjusters on the stays. The reasons are: I am replacing the original chain plates. That area of the bulkheads has gotten wet at some point in time and I do not trust the wood in that area. Moving the stays inside will allow me to install genoa tracks further inside and therefore sheet tighter upwind. I do not feel good about replacing only the area that is damaged and I do not want to replace both complete bulkheads. Your opinions comments etc. are appreciated. a.
Moving chain plates...
- Thread starter Alain Pascal
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I had a friend who replaced
the bulkhead in his O'Day 25 because it was rotted. He replaced them himself. They are rotting because the chain plates are leaking. I would recommend replacing the bulkhead and leaving the chain plates in the same spot. You don't have a performance boat, as I remember, it is very slow in light air. The O'Day 25 is more of a cruiser than a racer. This is my opinion and I am a big fan of O’Day boats. The construction is above average and they have great cabin layouts, but they are not fast!
the bulkhead in his O'Day 25 because it was rotted. He replaced them himself. They are rotting because the chain plates are leaking. I would recommend replacing the bulkhead and leaving the chain plates in the same spot. You don't have a performance boat, as I remember, it is very slow in light air. The O'Day 25 is more of a cruiser than a racer. This is my opinion and I am a big fan of O’Day boats. The construction is above average and they have great cabin layouts, but they are not fast!
deck core rot?
Alain My son recently went through what may be the same situation you might be facing.For what it's worth, his solution was a bit different based upon the deck core rot and bulkhead rot he had. In his case it was an O'Day 27 with the chainplates mid deck which I am presuming is similar to your boat. Rather than simply remove and repair the deck core and bulkhead, which he did, and simply replace the chainplates in their original location, he choose to place them outboard on the hull/deck joint with large chain straps glassed with webbing to the hull. As it wasn't a racing boat, the outboard placement of the shrouds had minimal adverse impact on jib lead locations and therefore pointing ability and would still allow you to do what you plan. As I said, he repaired the deck by injecting epoxy after removing the rot but short of ripping the whole deck up, there is no way to definitively tell if you got it all. I believe correctly so that he didn't simply trust the feel the bounce method to ensure the deck was again solid. Placement of the chainplates on the hull definitely strengthened an inherently poor design and held up well until he sold the boat this year (at a profit) so I guess the change didn't adversely effect the sale price. Don
Alain My son recently went through what may be the same situation you might be facing.For what it's worth, his solution was a bit different based upon the deck core rot and bulkhead rot he had. In his case it was an O'Day 27 with the chainplates mid deck which I am presuming is similar to your boat. Rather than simply remove and repair the deck core and bulkhead, which he did, and simply replace the chainplates in their original location, he choose to place them outboard on the hull/deck joint with large chain straps glassed with webbing to the hull. As it wasn't a racing boat, the outboard placement of the shrouds had minimal adverse impact on jib lead locations and therefore pointing ability and would still allow you to do what you plan. As I said, he repaired the deck by injecting epoxy after removing the rot but short of ripping the whole deck up, there is no way to definitively tell if you got it all. I believe correctly so that he didn't simply trust the feel the bounce method to ensure the deck was again solid. Placement of the chainplates on the hull definitely strengthened an inherently poor design and held up well until he sold the boat this year (at a profit) so I guess the change didn't adversely effect the sale price. Don
The proper thing to do - replace bulkheads.
You can't make temporary repairs to bulkheads that hold your chainplates. Ask any surveyor who knows his stuff, and they will tell you that you probably should replace the bulkheads in boats such as Pearson, C&C, Grampian, O'Day, Catalina etc. every 10 years to ensure they are sound. Now then, if you and previous owners have been performing annual inspections and resealing of the chainplates, you may be able to extend the life of the bulkheads. Replace them at the first sign of rot for your own protection. If you try moving the chainplate inside from where they are now you will lose your mast the first time you get in a blow. They are where they are because that's where the designer of the boat meant them to be. You will not gain anything by installing genoa tracks further inside on an O'Day 25. Replacing the bulkheads is no big deal. Get the 3/4" marine ply from Noahs - use your old pieces as templates, cut out the new, fasten them in place. Don't forget to mark where the holes should be on the new bulkhead. Again - use the old units for guidance.
You can't make temporary repairs to bulkheads that hold your chainplates. Ask any surveyor who knows his stuff, and they will tell you that you probably should replace the bulkheads in boats such as Pearson, C&C, Grampian, O'Day, Catalina etc. every 10 years to ensure they are sound. Now then, if you and previous owners have been performing annual inspections and resealing of the chainplates, you may be able to extend the life of the bulkheads. Replace them at the first sign of rot for your own protection. If you try moving the chainplate inside from where they are now you will lose your mast the first time you get in a blow. They are where they are because that's where the designer of the boat meant them to be. You will not gain anything by installing genoa tracks further inside on an O'Day 25. Replacing the bulkheads is no big deal. Get the 3/4" marine ply from Noahs - use your old pieces as templates, cut out the new, fasten them in place. Don't forget to mark where the holes should be on the new bulkhead. Again - use the old units for guidance.
don't do it
You aren't a marine architect. They put them there for a reason. Not only will you jepordize the integrity of the rig, you will devalue the boat when you sell it--if you can sell it that way.
You aren't a marine architect. They put them there for a reason. Not only will you jepordize the integrity of the rig, you will devalue the boat when you sell it--if you can sell it that way.
Do the right thing
Hi All, You are right thank you all for the replies. It was a moment of... weakness, I'll do the right thing and replace the bulkheads. Some 300$ in marine teak, Now were is that sawsall and router... thx. a.
Hi All, You are right thank you all for the replies. It was a moment of... weakness, I'll do the right thing and replace the bulkheads. Some 300$ in marine teak, Now were is that sawsall and router... thx. a.
Please - no sawsall.
You can remove the existing bulkheads without it. Patience is the key word here. You will need a sturdy jigsaw and a good power sander to get all the proper angles on your new bulkheads. Don't forget - they support your hull / topsides / deck / doghouse and hold their shape. Taking your time, and planning each move in advance, you can complete the whole job in 6 hours easy.
You can remove the existing bulkheads without it. Patience is the key word here. You will need a sturdy jigsaw and a good power sander to get all the proper angles on your new bulkheads. Don't forget - they support your hull / topsides / deck / doghouse and hold their shape. Taking your time, and planning each move in advance, you can complete the whole job in 6 hours easy.
Here is how we do it with Grampians.
Grampian actually built some O'Days back in the '70's. Note the comment about the bulkheads being part of the vessel structural support. This also applies to other makes as well - Pearson, Catalina, O'Day, C&C etc. Use 3/4" marine ply, teak or mahogany veneer each side The bulkheads are held in place with screws and not fibreglass or epoxy. You will find them behind the head, and across the top of the forward port locker. You will have to remove the centre top teak piece from between the bulkheads. This is a bit tricky but once you see the angle they used at the factory, it comes together and gets easy. You will also have to unscrew the shelving in the forepeak. You can loosen off the fore and backstays, and totally disconnect your front and rear lower shrouds, leaving just your uppers and slack front and back stays as mast support while you proceed to replace your forward bulkheads. That will take any pressure off the cabin trunk roof and make your inside work a proper fit. Don't forget - when you are all finished, always tighten up your fore and backstays much tighter than your uppers. They don't create the compression that the upper and lower shrouds do Remove the old bulkheads (both port & starboard) and use them as templates on your new 3/4" ply. Don't forget to use the old bulkheads as a template to mark where all the screws go back in. Cut out the new bulkheads, sand where necessary to get the correct fit, mount them into place with the screws, and you are good for another 15 to 20 years. (Thanks to Jim Quibell) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Unstep the mast, or at a minimum loosen all the tension off the shrouds and forestay and backstay, to reduce the load on the cabin trunk roof. This will allow it to spring up so the new bulkheads may be fitted better. Make the bulkheads fit tight as possible into their space with the mast unstepped. The bulkheads are the structural support for the cabin trunk, mast, mainsail and boom, and all the tension on the shrouds, so you don't want any space for the trunk roof to flex downward before resting on the bulkheads. Where there are woodscrews holding the bulkheads to the hull liner, replace them with stainless machine screws, washers and nuts. Drill through the liner and put the nuts on from inside the storage lockers. Woodscrews into fiberglass are a one-shot deal and replacements don't hold very well. You can use fiberglass tape (I believe it was 2" wide tape he suggested) and epoxy to "tab" the perimeter of the bulkheads to the hull liner. As these boats have all survived 30+ years without tabbing from the factory, this addition is optional. (Tips from Gill Bibby to Tim Nye) (Back) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- How do you remove the forward bulkheads? Remove the 4 screws at the bottom of the bulkhead on the head or hanging locker side. It'll be necessary to remove the head shelf which butts up against the bulkhead. It's necessary to remove the teak trim board that bridges the port and starboard bulkheads. Should be able to remove bulkhead by pushing at bottom from v-berth side (may be necessary to "pry" off from the v berth side by inserting flat blade (i.e., screwdriver) between bulkhead and locker). There should be no screws or adhesive at top of bulkhead Special notes: The vinyl trim that runs along the top of the bulkheads contains wiring for lights on head and v berth side of the port bulkhead. The trim piece that bridges the port and starboard bulkheads is secured by 4 screws (2 on each side) slotted from the bottom and top. Carefully remove the bulkhead as you will need it as a template to construct it's replacement. (Thanks to Joe Gilmore) (Back) Go to Bulkhead Replacement for photos of one replacement project.
Grampian actually built some O'Days back in the '70's. Note the comment about the bulkheads being part of the vessel structural support. This also applies to other makes as well - Pearson, Catalina, O'Day, C&C etc. Use 3/4" marine ply, teak or mahogany veneer each side The bulkheads are held in place with screws and not fibreglass or epoxy. You will find them behind the head, and across the top of the forward port locker. You will have to remove the centre top teak piece from between the bulkheads. This is a bit tricky but once you see the angle they used at the factory, it comes together and gets easy. You will also have to unscrew the shelving in the forepeak. You can loosen off the fore and backstays, and totally disconnect your front and rear lower shrouds, leaving just your uppers and slack front and back stays as mast support while you proceed to replace your forward bulkheads. That will take any pressure off the cabin trunk roof and make your inside work a proper fit. Don't forget - when you are all finished, always tighten up your fore and backstays much tighter than your uppers. They don't create the compression that the upper and lower shrouds do Remove the old bulkheads (both port & starboard) and use them as templates on your new 3/4" ply. Don't forget to use the old bulkheads as a template to mark where all the screws go back in. Cut out the new bulkheads, sand where necessary to get the correct fit, mount them into place with the screws, and you are good for another 15 to 20 years. (Thanks to Jim Quibell) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Unstep the mast, or at a minimum loosen all the tension off the shrouds and forestay and backstay, to reduce the load on the cabin trunk roof. This will allow it to spring up so the new bulkheads may be fitted better. Make the bulkheads fit tight as possible into their space with the mast unstepped. The bulkheads are the structural support for the cabin trunk, mast, mainsail and boom, and all the tension on the shrouds, so you don't want any space for the trunk roof to flex downward before resting on the bulkheads. Where there are woodscrews holding the bulkheads to the hull liner, replace them with stainless machine screws, washers and nuts. Drill through the liner and put the nuts on from inside the storage lockers. Woodscrews into fiberglass are a one-shot deal and replacements don't hold very well. You can use fiberglass tape (I believe it was 2" wide tape he suggested) and epoxy to "tab" the perimeter of the bulkheads to the hull liner. As these boats have all survived 30+ years without tabbing from the factory, this addition is optional. (Tips from Gill Bibby to Tim Nye) (Back) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- How do you remove the forward bulkheads? Remove the 4 screws at the bottom of the bulkhead on the head or hanging locker side. It'll be necessary to remove the head shelf which butts up against the bulkhead. It's necessary to remove the teak trim board that bridges the port and starboard bulkheads. Should be able to remove bulkhead by pushing at bottom from v-berth side (may be necessary to "pry" off from the v berth side by inserting flat blade (i.e., screwdriver) between bulkhead and locker). There should be no screws or adhesive at top of bulkhead Special notes: The vinyl trim that runs along the top of the bulkheads contains wiring for lights on head and v berth side of the port bulkhead. The trim piece that bridges the port and starboard bulkheads is secured by 4 screws (2 on each side) slotted from the bottom and top. Carefully remove the bulkhead as you will need it as a template to construct it's replacement. (Thanks to Joe Gilmore) (Back) Go to Bulkhead Replacement for photos of one replacement project.
Hate to Disagree
Jim, not trying to be contentious, but some of that information doesn't apply to the O'Day 25. I don't think 3/4" plywood would fit. There are slots that hold the bulkheads, and they're 1/2". The original midship bulkheads were indeed fiberglassed in place. I've talked to other O'Day owners that did this, and there's were as well. The forward, vberth, and aft bulkheads were not glassed in. The O'Day 25 doesn't have front and rear lower shrouds, it's got a single lower on each side; both the upper and lower are connected to the same chainplate. If you remove the one chainplate on either side, there's nothing left to hold up the mast. The mast should be unstepped to do this project. But I DO like the suggestion about the machine screws. It never occurred to me. I may go back and "fix" that on mine.
Jim, not trying to be contentious, but some of that information doesn't apply to the O'Day 25. I don't think 3/4" plywood would fit. There are slots that hold the bulkheads, and they're 1/2". The original midship bulkheads were indeed fiberglassed in place. I've talked to other O'Day owners that did this, and there's were as well. The forward, vberth, and aft bulkheads were not glassed in. The O'Day 25 doesn't have front and rear lower shrouds, it's got a single lower on each side; both the upper and lower are connected to the same chainplate. If you remove the one chainplate on either side, there's nothing left to hold up the mast. The mast should be unstepped to do this project. But I DO like the suggestion about the machine screws. It never occurred to me. I may go back and "fix" that on mine.
bulheads replacement
Good day all, To everyone ok I was convinced I will not move the chainplates inboard. the will be done without the mast on deck. Jim, thank you for the good advice, I was thinking of making the template with paper I am not certain the bulkhead can be removed without damage, but after reading you and Herb's description I sure will try to remove them without destroying them. I was thinking of putting a beed of Sikaflex in the groove and then push the new bulkhead in place. I am talking about the bulkheads that holds the chainplates here. Herb, wow, serious amount of work there, I was thinking of removing the lining too and after seing what you are doing with the cedar strip... Well you got me thinking! I would really appreciate more information picture advice etc, from your project. I am also thinkiering with the idea of changing the head configuration basically adding a small sink on port side and using the starboard for a wet locker. If you have more pictures etc about your progress, and want to share them with me via email to avoid crowding this thread please do so! To everyone many thx for your advice and opinions regarding moving the chain plates. Cheers, a,
Good day all, To everyone ok I was convinced I will not move the chainplates inboard. the will be done without the mast on deck. Jim, thank you for the good advice, I was thinking of making the template with paper I am not certain the bulkhead can be removed without damage, but after reading you and Herb's description I sure will try to remove them without destroying them. I was thinking of putting a beed of Sikaflex in the groove and then push the new bulkhead in place. I am talking about the bulkheads that holds the chainplates here. Herb, wow, serious amount of work there, I was thinking of removing the lining too and after seing what you are doing with the cedar strip... Well you got me thinking! I would really appreciate more information picture advice etc, from your project. I am also thinkiering with the idea of changing the head configuration basically adding a small sink on port side and using the starboard for a wet locker. If you have more pictures etc about your progress, and want to share them with me via email to avoid crowding this thread please do so! To everyone many thx for your advice and opinions regarding moving the chain plates. Cheers, a,
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