Hello, I use a Nissan 9.9 to drive my legend 23.5. It was ok to drive the boat forward but very inefficient in reverse. so, I changed the stock propeller from pitch size 8 to 7 and slightly more diameter. What happened is that it became even better forward but in reverse it remained the same. I would prefer a better reverse for safety reasons in crowded situations. I know that it is a common problem with outboards with through-prop exhaust and that there are reverse-thrust propellers on the market, but does anyone rectified this problem in another way(perhaps inexpensive custom modifications to the outboard) Thanks Nicky
motoring a sailboat in reverse
- Thread starter Nicky17000
- Start date
- Status
You won't want to hear this,,,
... but there is nothing to do short of mastering your vessel. I sail a 26.5 with a 9.9 Nissan kicker, mounted to port. And while I agree the reverse handling is tricky, there is no way around it. I've learned several tricks that work for me and have few problems handling or docking since I figured out what to do. There's no magic bullet out there you are missing. Good luck, Cap'n Wright
... but there is nothing to do short of mastering your vessel. I sail a 26.5 with a 9.9 Nissan kicker, mounted to port. And while I agree the reverse handling is tricky, there is no way around it. I've learned several tricks that work for me and have few problems handling or docking since I figured out what to do. There's no magic bullet out there you are missing. Good luck, Cap'n Wright
Reverse Gear .......
Hey There ....... I had my prop, on my older Evenrude 9.9, replaced two years ago. When they replaced it, they drilled holes in the lower casing to vent it. I'm not sure what the pitch is, but the blades are big and look like Mickey Mouse ears (which is a big difference from the Trolling Prop that was on it !). But, it powers my O'Day 23 around pretty good, and in reverse. If I use the tiller in conjunction with turning the engine, I can spin it on its own axis, or within its own length. Maybe its the exhaust venting at the prop that is causing the problem ??????
Hey There ....... I had my prop, on my older Evenrude 9.9, replaced two years ago. When they replaced it, they drilled holes in the lower casing to vent it. I'm not sure what the pitch is, but the blades are big and look like Mickey Mouse ears (which is a big difference from the Trolling Prop that was on it !). But, it powers my O'Day 23 around pretty good, and in reverse. If I use the tiller in conjunction with turning the engine, I can spin it on its own axis, or within its own length. Maybe its the exhaust venting at the prop that is causing the problem ??????
Thats what nice about Yamaha High Thrust props
Doesnt help you but Yamaha high thrust props are designed for this. So it is a problem many have. You are not alone.
Doesnt help you but Yamaha high thrust props are designed for this. So it is a problem many have. You are not alone.
I think that most of your problems can be solved with better planning
and entering crowded places at a much slower speed. Master your boat . Know how far it carries when you shift to neutral. Get into open water with a couple of jugs coupled with a short rope. Drop them into the water while running forward and immediately shift to reverse and see how far the boat carries in that case. Then try it without the reverse. Then turn around and go back and pick up the jugs. When you can stop beside the jugs every time, you won't have any trouble in a crowded place.
and entering crowded places at a much slower speed. Master your boat . Know how far it carries when you shift to neutral. Get into open water with a couple of jugs coupled with a short rope. Drop them into the water while running forward and immediately shift to reverse and see how far the boat carries in that case. Then try it without the reverse. Then turn around and go back and pick up the jugs. When you can stop beside the jugs every time, you won't have any trouble in a crowded place.
Take the advice of Ross and teacher....
just go out and practice motoring in reverse. There is nothing better to improve your boat's performance than practicing your technique. Learn to use your "prop walk". In reverse, the prop will tend to pull the boat to one side or the other depending on it's rotation. You can turn your boat 360 degrees within its own length by shifting forward to start the turn and then to reverse, using the prop walk then alternating back and forth. To back out straight, try gunning the motor to get the boat moving then shutting it down to idle as let the boat glide out with the rudder controlling it. There are a lot of small boat handling suggestions in Chapman's. You don't need a new edition. Go to the library or a used book store.
just go out and practice motoring in reverse. There is nothing better to improve your boat's performance than practicing your technique. Learn to use your "prop walk". In reverse, the prop will tend to pull the boat to one side or the other depending on it's rotation. You can turn your boat 360 degrees within its own length by shifting forward to start the turn and then to reverse, using the prop walk then alternating back and forth. To back out straight, try gunning the motor to get the boat moving then shutting it down to idle as let the boat glide out with the rudder controlling it. There are a lot of small boat handling suggestions in Chapman's. You don't need a new edition. Go to the library or a used book store.
Nicky...
...I have been told by more than one person to lock the motor in the strait ahead position and just use the till while backing. For what it's worth! Jack
...I have been told by more than one person to lock the motor in the strait ahead position and just use the till while backing. For what it's worth! Jack
look for a 4 blade high thrust prop
If you look at props, the standard 3 blade has some rake to the blades that makes them ineffecient in reverse. The high thrust prop blades like the Yamaha And Honda don't have the rake and are more effecient in reverse. I went from a 3 to a 4 blade hi thrust on my honda and there is a BIG difference in reverse.
If you look at props, the standard 3 blade has some rake to the blades that makes them ineffecient in reverse. The high thrust prop blades like the Yamaha And Honda don't have the rake and are more effecient in reverse. I went from a 3 to a 4 blade hi thrust on my honda and there is a BIG difference in reverse.
Prop Below Hull
Nicky: Check to be sure prop is deep enough, i.e. below your hull. If not, water is forced against stern in reverse which really slows you. That's a common problem with Outboards and a good reason to have the long shaft version. RK
Nicky: Check to be sure prop is deep enough, i.e. below your hull. If not, water is forced against stern in reverse which really slows you. That's a common problem with Outboards and a good reason to have the long shaft version. RK
An outboard's strength
I can't help thinking Dick may be on to something, and you should be sure the prop wash is clearing your hull. But Jack's suggestion bears replying to. I once loaned my h23 for use as committee boat. It was driven by a highly experience sailor, who was used to using an inboard equipped boat, rather than outboard with a transome hung rudder. He mannage to let the rudder flop over to the prop while backing up - although I never got a clear understanding of how. I regard the outboard as steerable thrust, working outboard and rudder in tandem as I back up. Then, when I'm ready to turn, I put both the rudder and the outboard over nearly 90 degrees. Its amazing how easily a boat pivots about its center when you are pushing its stern sideways, almost on the proverbial dime. The other thing is go slow, especially in crowded conditions. Jim Kolstoe, h23 Kara's Boo
I can't help thinking Dick may be on to something, and you should be sure the prop wash is clearing your hull. But Jack's suggestion bears replying to. I once loaned my h23 for use as committee boat. It was driven by a highly experience sailor, who was used to using an inboard equipped boat, rather than outboard with a transome hung rudder. He mannage to let the rudder flop over to the prop while backing up - although I never got a clear understanding of how. I regard the outboard as steerable thrust, working outboard and rudder in tandem as I back up. Then, when I'm ready to turn, I put both the rudder and the outboard over nearly 90 degrees. Its amazing how easily a boat pivots about its center when you are pushing its stern sideways, almost on the proverbial dime. The other thing is go slow, especially in crowded conditions. Jim Kolstoe, h23 Kara's Boo
Motoring in reverse
Nicky, It's like Jim said. You need to use the rudder and the outboard together and go slow. Also, the "power thruster" is a great gadget to have on your outboard and can possibly save your rudder from coming in contact with the prop. I'd even go one step further and mention that taking advantage of a wind and current will get you to a dock. I'm forever looking at my windex and I'm always conscious of wind direction when I get into tight areas. It's probably a good idea to just practice. Trying to get a sailboat to go where you want it to go in reverse is tough for anyone. Joe
Nicky, It's like Jim said. You need to use the rudder and the outboard together and go slow. Also, the "power thruster" is a great gadget to have on your outboard and can possibly save your rudder from coming in contact with the prop. I'd even go one step further and mention that taking advantage of a wind and current will get you to a dock. I'm forever looking at my windex and I'm always conscious of wind direction when I get into tight areas. It's probably a good idea to just practice. Trying to get a sailboat to go where you want it to go in reverse is tough for anyone. Joe
A sailboat in reverse is at the mercy of
prop walk, windage, current, spring lines and poles. Learn how to use all to your advantage and you will be better off. Everytime you are entering or departing a spot where you may be in close quarters to other boats or obstructions you need to formulate a plan. Work a bail out procedure into that plan if possible. The prop walk is standart and only is felt when the transmission is engaged shift into neutral and it stops. Prop walk can also be used to turn a boat in its axis . Wind and current are variables in speed and direction but with practice you can anticipate how they will affect your boat. Spring lines can be used to stop or force a boat to turn. Poles can be used to pivot or hold position. Sailboats have rub rails, don't be afraid to use them. Seen an old salt in Key West one time back up a 40 footer at full power into a narrow 50' fairway. From my vantage point I had not seen he had measured a spring line tied it to the back portside cleat with the bitter end wrapped once around a dock pole and tended by a dock hand. I'm preparing to witness a crash but when that boat hit the end of the line it just turned the boat 90 dgrees with the bow pointing down the fairway. The dockhand released the springline which was hauled aboard as the boat made way forward. Have never had to use that manuever but it is nice to have. Once again the most important thing is to formulate a plan, test it in your mind and execute it.
prop walk, windage, current, spring lines and poles. Learn how to use all to your advantage and you will be better off. Everytime you are entering or departing a spot where you may be in close quarters to other boats or obstructions you need to formulate a plan. Work a bail out procedure into that plan if possible. The prop walk is standart and only is felt when the transmission is engaged shift into neutral and it stops. Prop walk can also be used to turn a boat in its axis . Wind and current are variables in speed and direction but with practice you can anticipate how they will affect your boat. Spring lines can be used to stop or force a boat to turn. Poles can be used to pivot or hold position. Sailboats have rub rails, don't be afraid to use them. Seen an old salt in Key West one time back up a 40 footer at full power into a narrow 50' fairway. From my vantage point I had not seen he had measured a spring line tied it to the back portside cleat with the bitter end wrapped once around a dock pole and tended by a dock hand. I'm preparing to witness a crash but when that boat hit the end of the line it just turned the boat 90 dgrees with the bow pointing down the fairway. The dockhand released the springline which was hauled aboard as the boat made way forward. Have never had to use that manuever but it is nice to have. Once again the most important thing is to formulate a plan, test it in your mind and execute it.
Thank you guys
Hello everyone, thanks for the good advice everybody gave. The motor is long shaft and so propeller depth is not a problem. The new propeller is not raked and has a larger surface area than the original. I think that the worst offender is that in reverse,the blades will be turning in the exhaust, so losing their 'bite' in the water. 'Rascal',you mentioned drilling vents in the casing,did you locate them in the empty space around the shaft. Also I think its difficult to assess their effect since you also changed the propeller. Jim, as to the propeller hitting the rudder, it can happen especially if the rudder is not locked completely forward. If it is raked backwards, it will have a larger turning radius which might cross that of the propeller. Well........now I've got used to it but when its windy its a bit tricky to mantain steerage-way at very low speeds. Another thing which irritates me is when I'm aiming at a clearance to dock, a powerboat overtakes me and fills in the available space. Fair winds to all Nicky
Hello everyone, thanks for the good advice everybody gave. The motor is long shaft and so propeller depth is not a problem. The new propeller is not raked and has a larger surface area than the original. I think that the worst offender is that in reverse,the blades will be turning in the exhaust, so losing their 'bite' in the water. 'Rascal',you mentioned drilling vents in the casing,did you locate them in the empty space around the shaft. Also I think its difficult to assess their effect since you also changed the propeller. Jim, as to the propeller hitting the rudder, it can happen especially if the rudder is not locked completely forward. If it is raked backwards, it will have a larger turning radius which might cross that of the propeller. Well........now I've got used to it but when its windy its a bit tricky to mantain steerage-way at very low speeds. Another thing which irritates me is when I'm aiming at a clearance to dock, a powerboat overtakes me and fills in the available space. Fair winds to all Nicky
prop cavitation
I had a the same problem on an oday 23 with a 6hp Evenrude I drilled two 1/4 holes into the exhaust passage above the cavitation plate. Maybe it was in my mind but it did seem to help. Along with that practice your boat handling skills. There is no substitute for good boathandling skills to stay out of trouble. I also had problems with the prop digging into the rudder on a hard left turn. My solution was to attach a small aluminum tab to the cavitation plate that acted as a stop when the Rudder got close to the prop. Have fun Ray T
I had a the same problem on an oday 23 with a 6hp Evenrude I drilled two 1/4 holes into the exhaust passage above the cavitation plate. Maybe it was in my mind but it did seem to help. Along with that practice your boat handling skills. There is no substitute for good boathandling skills to stay out of trouble. I also had problems with the prop digging into the rudder on a hard left turn. My solution was to attach a small aluminum tab to the cavitation plate that acted as a stop when the Rudder got close to the prop. Have fun Ray T
- Status