More sleep
- Thread starter All U Get
- Start date
AUG,
How many people on your biggest Pearson? Did you sail straight through, outside all the capes? Etc.?
We're going from Annapolis up to Maine in 4 weeks. I will have myself and three other experienced sailors on board with me.
Over the last seven or eight similar three days and a few hours trips, I've learned that there aren't hard and fast rules for how I handle the need to rest. I know that there are a bunch of principles that my better crew mates follow. Really rest when you're off watch, for one. Don't use up all your reserve capacity -- you don't know when you'll need it. Have people you can trust with your life around you helps make rest possible. If you, like me like being in the cockpit with the watch crew member(s), force yourself to rest, if not sleep. Etc. etc.
The return to a more normal sleep pattern isn't easy unless you can "time" your crash in port. Then I force myself to stay awake until evening. I never take more then an Ibuprofin like Advil.
One pattern that I've found works best is a watch schedule which is staggered. If you are in snotty conditions, you shorten up the cycle but with 2 people "on" all the time, you stagger the crews. Daylight hours might have a looser watch approach in open waters, but between 2100 and 0600, we get structured.
We haven't had more than 3 nights up to Maine. I try to encourage (and accept encouragement) to sleep during part of every night. When I'm with my wife only on say, a 2 day passage, it's tougher because I try to take the graveyard shift from 2300 through to dawn. That's roughest on the system, not wise in the long run, but I can do it for a a day and some change. Then it really I something I know would be best to not let happen. It's really better to force yourself to get early rest (even its 3 hours) and rake the 0100 hours through dawn period. Getting some sleep every night is better. I think that learning to sleep or go into sleep like state more often for a few hours is easier on the system.
Some of the crew members that I admire the most seem to develop that disipline of pacing themselves and taking rest so the are ready for action -- and not punch drunk. They learn to sleep at night and during the day. Then if we have to scramble, or we having a sick crew member who we have cover for, they are there when needed.
I think you can learn to do that.
How many people on your biggest Pearson? Did you sail straight through, outside all the capes? Etc.?
We're going from Annapolis up to Maine in 4 weeks. I will have myself and three other experienced sailors on board with me.
Over the last seven or eight similar three days and a few hours trips, I've learned that there aren't hard and fast rules for how I handle the need to rest. I know that there are a bunch of principles that my better crew mates follow. Really rest when you're off watch, for one. Don't use up all your reserve capacity -- you don't know when you'll need it. Have people you can trust with your life around you helps make rest possible. If you, like me like being in the cockpit with the watch crew member(s), force yourself to rest, if not sleep. Etc. etc.
The return to a more normal sleep pattern isn't easy unless you can "time" your crash in port. Then I force myself to stay awake until evening. I never take more then an Ibuprofin like Advil.
One pattern that I've found works best is a watch schedule which is staggered. If you are in snotty conditions, you shorten up the cycle but with 2 people "on" all the time, you stagger the crews. Daylight hours might have a looser watch approach in open waters, but between 2100 and 0600, we get structured.
We haven't had more than 3 nights up to Maine. I try to encourage (and accept encouragement) to sleep during part of every night. When I'm with my wife only on say, a 2 day passage, it's tougher because I try to take the graveyard shift from 2300 through to dawn. That's roughest on the system, not wise in the long run, but I can do it for a a day and some change. Then it really I something I know would be best to not let happen. It's really better to force yourself to get early rest (even its 3 hours) and rake the 0100 hours through dawn period. Getting some sleep every night is better. I think that learning to sleep or go into sleep like state more often for a few hours is easier on the system.
Some of the crew members that I admire the most seem to develop that disipline of pacing themselves and taking rest so the are ready for action -- and not punch drunk. They learn to sleep at night and during the day. Then if we have to scramble, or we having a sick crew member who we have cover for, they are there when needed.
I think you can learn to do that.
Just my wife and I cruising every year south. We were outside from the Bahamas except the ICW from Beaufort, NC to Norfolk, Va. and running through LI Sound. You've done about the same as what we do except for getting additional crew aboard. I guess we'll have to "Shanghai" some from a local bar. The melatonin loss makes sense and I'm going to give it a try while we do summer repairs.
All U Get
All U Get
This works well but I've found it takes a while for the brain to wake up after using it.
Saving that for when I really need sleep. We carry enough on board for allergic reactions which came in handy two years ago for a young couple we met from Japan. The woman was blotchy and puffed up like a balloon having some raspy breathing. Gave them half of our supply so they could get to an island with a doctor. She did well enough for them to continue to Nassau and fly back to Japan.
All U Get
Here's a link to a .pdf that you can download for free. It's interesting, there is a section on sleep while singlehanding. I'd never heard of the polyphasic sleep before, that's why I asked...
http://sfbaysss.net/resource/doc/SinglehandedTipsThirdEdition.pdf
I would think running with a second person aboard this could still be used, with even better results. But I don't have any first hand knowledge of it.
dj
http://sfbaysss.net/resource/doc/SinglehandedTipsThirdEdition.pdf
I would think running with a second person aboard this could still be used, with even better results. But I don't have any first hand knowledge of it.
dj
Yes, that's exactly what it sounds like, 'cat-napping' - anybody ever actually try it?
dj
I used to in College do that in some courses :^))).
Seriously, that's an approach. Again, it depends on your natural (maybe unusual sleep patterns. One of my many sisters is a Professor of Clinical Neurology and specializes in Sleep Disorders. Her advice is that naps aren't bad, but they aren't generally an optimal substitute for more traditional sleep periods. If you have to, you need to decide: COMPARED TO WHAT? For some people it works better than others. If you're talking about over 48 hours, it's different than 3 weeks.
There a people that can get into REM sleep in a few minutes -- others take a few hours to get into that state.
In reality, like driving while nodding off, you aren't generally the best judge of how "many cylinders you're really hitting on". Like driving after a drink or two, you may not realize your real reduction in capacity.
Again, I can (if reasonably rested before) go about 24-30 hours if I'm stimulated by my surroundings and not lulled into a half-sleep. Then, it's touch and go what might happen. Sometimes, I've gone a bunch longer. Other times, I've can sense the "spirit of the zombies" overtaking me. ;^))).
If you have no choice, you do what you need to do. Don't use-up all your reserves. It's better to sleep a little than none at all. It's better if you can chose when you nap, vs. just falling into a trance or passing from the conscious.
My most trusted, reliable crew mates seem to take their off watch times seriously, they REST first, if they awake early, they read or putz with the navigation instruments, or whatever.
I've had only one horrible close call with a collision when a crew member essentially nodded off in the fog about 60 miles off of Nanctucket. I had gone down below to make tea for my on deck watch mate. I was awakened by the sounds of sea birds! I said to my self: "We're in the middle of nowhere in the fog, 50 - 60 miles from land. Why the birds? Is there dead whale or something??? I looked out the port above the galley and couldn't see them because of the fog and 4:00 AM darkness.
I popped out the companionway saying: "What's going on?" My crewmate was dead asleep on the cockpit seat next to the dodger. That's 5' in front of the wheel. Over his shoulder, out of the darkness suddlenly I was staring at a 70' steel trawler with it net outriggers out at about 10:00 maybe 150'-200' away. He'd apparently slowed down or almost stopped (there are a lot of currents out there and stopping is relative).
It looked like a picture where the trawler and it's rig filled the frame. Hippity-hopping, saying things that I shouldn't about my crew mate's mother, I managed to hit the autopilot control and rolled the boat 180 degrees away from the trawler. Constipation was almost instantly relieved.
I still remember that moment. Would have made a great picture of commercial fishing in New England. The birds chasing the fishing boat saved us -- or the captain of the fishing boat who called me a futher mucker and ******* as he watched us slide away. He didn't have to yell that loud. I suspect he kept from running us over and demasting us, but he couldn't go backwards. If he would have been going 4 knots with our 8 knots....
So I tell all my crew (and a everyone else who might listen) about that morning. Just 5 minutes of nodding off at the wrong moment in the fog; and,....
Seriously, that's an approach. Again, it depends on your natural (maybe unusual sleep patterns. One of my many sisters is a Professor of Clinical Neurology and specializes in Sleep Disorders. Her advice is that naps aren't bad, but they aren't generally an optimal substitute for more traditional sleep periods. If you have to, you need to decide: COMPARED TO WHAT? For some people it works better than others. If you're talking about over 48 hours, it's different than 3 weeks.
There a people that can get into REM sleep in a few minutes -- others take a few hours to get into that state.
In reality, like driving while nodding off, you aren't generally the best judge of how "many cylinders you're really hitting on". Like driving after a drink or two, you may not realize your real reduction in capacity.
Again, I can (if reasonably rested before) go about 24-30 hours if I'm stimulated by my surroundings and not lulled into a half-sleep. Then, it's touch and go what might happen. Sometimes, I've gone a bunch longer. Other times, I've can sense the "spirit of the zombies" overtaking me. ;^))).
If you have no choice, you do what you need to do. Don't use-up all your reserves. It's better to sleep a little than none at all. It's better if you can chose when you nap, vs. just falling into a trance or passing from the conscious.
My most trusted, reliable crew mates seem to take their off watch times seriously, they REST first, if they awake early, they read or putz with the navigation instruments, or whatever.
I've had only one horrible close call with a collision when a crew member essentially nodded off in the fog about 60 miles off of Nanctucket. I had gone down below to make tea for my on deck watch mate. I was awakened by the sounds of sea birds! I said to my self: "We're in the middle of nowhere in the fog, 50 - 60 miles from land. Why the birds? Is there dead whale or something??? I looked out the port above the galley and couldn't see them because of the fog and 4:00 AM darkness.
I popped out the companionway saying: "What's going on?" My crewmate was dead asleep on the cockpit seat next to the dodger. That's 5' in front of the wheel. Over his shoulder, out of the darkness suddlenly I was staring at a 70' steel trawler with it net outriggers out at about 10:00 maybe 150'-200' away. He'd apparently slowed down or almost stopped (there are a lot of currents out there and stopping is relative).
It looked like a picture where the trawler and it's rig filled the frame. Hippity-hopping, saying things that I shouldn't about my crew mate's mother, I managed to hit the autopilot control and rolled the boat 180 degrees away from the trawler. Constipation was almost instantly relieved.
I still remember that moment. Would have made a great picture of commercial fishing in New England. The birds chasing the fishing boat saved us -- or the captain of the fishing boat who called me a futher mucker and ******* as he watched us slide away. He didn't have to yell that loud. I suspect he kept from running us over and demasting us, but he couldn't go backwards. If he would have been going 4 knots with our 8 knots....
So I tell all my crew (and a everyone else who might listen) about that morning. Just 5 minutes of nodding off at the wrong moment in the fog; and,....
Initially, the OP was referring to sleeping in port; not at sea. On passages of several days w/ capable crew aboard there is typically a watch schedule in place. For two, that might be 4 on; 4 off. So, the most sleep a crew would get in a single stretch might be, say, 3 1/2 h. If a crew slept two h on each off-watch; that would be considered "polyphasic" @ 3 x 2 h /24-hr cycle = 6 h sleep/day. I use watches when out overnight; but, if only a short run of a couple of hundred miles, it's hard to slide into a viable watch schedule (where the off-watch crew actually get sleep) so quickly. I've been on many multi-day trips on small working vessels where there are only the Captain and a mate to run the bridge and where they use the 4 on; 4 off. It's tried and true. With three crew, it's 4 on; 8 off. USCG allows only 12 h/day of watch time on the bridge for "commercial" vessels.
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Some things about sleep that I've learned lately:
- Alcohol will help me fall asleep, but it prevents me from sleeping soundly through the night.
- Melatonin is available wherever vitamins are sold, including most supermarkets. Melatonin makes me fall asleep and stay asleep, but it persists throughout the next morning (in me). I hate wasting mornings in a stupor.
- Exercise during the day enhances sleep at night.
- Turn off TV and computer long before bedtime.
- If you must watch TV or computer, diminish the blue light. If your screen doesn't have the capability to do this, install the free program called "f.lux"
- Even with blue light diminished, rapidly flashing images will disrupt your sleep later.
- Instead of TV or computer: Make love. Give or receive a massage.
- If you read with a Kindle or tablet, use the night time reading display adjustment.
- I eat a small dinner, then have a light snack before going to bed, so I don't get hungry during the night. NO sugar. A bit of good fat will keep my brain happy. I eat avocado or a spoonful of MCT oil. I also drink a small glass of tart cherry juice. It aids sleep, but more importantly, it reduces inflammation and that reduces the aches and pains of growing older.
- Alcohol will help me fall asleep, but it prevents me from sleeping soundly through the night.
- Melatonin is available wherever vitamins are sold, including most supermarkets. Melatonin makes me fall asleep and stay asleep, but it persists throughout the next morning (in me). I hate wasting mornings in a stupor.
- Exercise during the day enhances sleep at night.
- Turn off TV and computer long before bedtime.
- If you must watch TV or computer, diminish the blue light. If your screen doesn't have the capability to do this, install the free program called "f.lux"
- Even with blue light diminished, rapidly flashing images will disrupt your sleep later.
- Instead of TV or computer: Make love. Give or receive a massage.
- If you read with a Kindle or tablet, use the night time reading display adjustment.
- I eat a small dinner, then have a light snack before going to bed, so I don't get hungry during the night. NO sugar. A bit of good fat will keep my brain happy. I eat avocado or a spoonful of MCT oil. I also drink a small glass of tart cherry juice. It aids sleep, but more importantly, it reduces inflammation and that reduces the aches and pains of growing older.
I've heard the 4 on 4 off to be really the best way between two people. I like the 3 people 4 on and 8 off. I've done quite a bit of single handing, but never for longer than a few days on an off shore leg so I don't know about longer legs. I am quite interested in learning as much as possible as I approach the possibility of cutting ties and heading out for extended cruising. My wife has decided she'll let me do all the passages and then will fly to where I am and join the fun... I'm torn between single handing longer passages and finding crew. Didn't mean to hyjack the original thread...
dj
dj
My wife uses Melatonin. Seems to work well at least initially. Then when you get used to it it may no longer work. At least that's been my wife's experience. She thought it worked great the first few days. So if that's all you need to start your engines, so to speak, might be great.
dj
dj
I came to the valsalva maneuver on my own.
It does help me go to sleep, but I was always
concerned that it wasn't good for me for some
reason or another. Haven't heard any reason
not to use it for this purpose.
It does help me go to sleep, but I was always
concerned that it wasn't good for me for some
reason or another. Haven't heard any reason
not to use it for this purpose.
Why would you do that, Jongleur? I was familar with it only in connection with an ENT checking your ear. (then I didn't know the technical term).
From my reading of the piece below, the use of the maneuver to control premature ejaculation appears to be variation on other techniques. However, I'm not sure how a sexual partner would interrupt one grabbing ones nose and puffing-up at that "special moment" ;^)))))
AS A SLEEP AID: A series of deep breathing (yoga like) and pre-meditation procedures would seem better. The artificial inducement of a cardiac constraint, followed by rise and then fall in blood pressure is something that probably won't kill most healthy people. You could bend down and grab your ankles, then compress your abdominal muscles too. Then ease-up and relax.
I copied the little piece below off the WEB:
Valsalva Maneuver
Definition
The Valsalva maneuver is performed by attempting to forcibly exhale while keeping the mouth and nose closed. It isused as a diagnostic tool to evaluate the condition of the heart and is sometimes done as a treatment to correctabnormal heart rhythms or relieve chest pain.
Purpose
The Valsalva maneuver is used with patients who have suspected heart abnormalities, often in conjunction withechocardiography. The maneuver is based on the fact that when a patient forcibly exhales against a closed nose andmouth while bearing down, as if having a bowel movement, specific changes occur in blood pressure and the rate andvolume of blood returning to the heart.
Comparing the changes in a diseased heart to those expected in a normal heart gives clues to the type and location ofheart damage. In addition, when a doctor listens to the chest with a stethoscope during the Valsalva maneuver,characteristic heart sounds are heard. Variations in these sounds can indicate the type of abnormality present in theheart. A 2004 study found that blood pressure response to the Valsalva maneuver could predict mortality in elderlypatients with congestive heart failure. This could prove to be a new noninvasive way to help determine how long elderlypatients with congestive heart failure are expected to live.
The Valsalva maneuver also corrects some rapid heartbeats originating in the atria. When the maneuver is donecorrectly, blood pressure rises. This forces the heart to respond by correcting its rhythm and beating more slowly. Onrare occasions, the Valsalva maneuver can be used to diminish chest pain in patients with mild coronary disease.
Unrelated to any evaluation of the heart, the Valsalva maneuver also is taught to patients with multiple sclerosis whoare unable to fully empty the bladder (flaccid bladder). It sometimes is used in sexual therapy to help men avoidpremature ejaculation.
Precautions
The Valsalva maneuver should not be performed by patients who have severe coronary artery disease, haveexperienced recent heart attack, or have a moderate to severe reduction in blood volume.
Description
When performed formally, the patient is asked to blow against an aneroid pressure measuring device (manometer) andmaintain a pressure of 40 millimeters of mercury (mm Hg) for 30 seconds. Or, less formally, the patient may be asked tobear down, as if having a bowel movement. During this 30 second period, a recording is made of the changes in bloodpressure and murmurs of the heart.
Preparation
The patient may be connected to a heart monitor and echocardiograph or the physician may simply use a stethoscope tomonitor the heart. Sometimes an indwelling needle is inserted for accurate pressure measurements, depending onwhether the procedure is being done for corrective or diagnostic purposes.
Aftercare
When this procedure is done to regulate irregular heart rhythms, the patient usually remains on a heart monitor toevaluate heartbeat.
Risks
The patient may feel dizzy or faint during the procedure, but serious consequences are rare. There is a risk that theValsalva maneuver can cause blood clots to detach, bleeding, and abnormal rhythms originating in the ventricle. It canalso cause cardiac arrest. Consequently, the procedure is usually performed in a setting where emergency equipment isaccessible.
Normal results
There are four characteristic changes or phases in a normal heart's response to the Valsalva maneuver. An abnormalityin any of these phases indicates a cardiovascular abnormality.
Resources
Periodicals
Jancin, Bruce. "New Mortality Predictor Found for Heart Failure." Family Practice News March 15, 2004: 48-49.
Key terms
Atria — The heart has four chambers. The right and left atria are at the top of the heart and receive returning blood fromthe veins. The right and left ventricles are at the bottom of the heart and act as the body's main pumps.
Echocardiography — An ultrasound test that shows the size, shape, and movement of the heart.
Gale Encyclopedia of Medicine. Copyright 2008 The Gale Group, Inc. All rights reserved.
Valsalva maneuver
[val-sal´vah]
1. increase of intrathoracic pressure by forcible exhalation against the closed glottis; this maneuver causes trapping ofblood in the great veins, preventing it from entering the chest and right atrium. When the breath is released, theintrathoracic pressure drops and the trapped blood is quickly propelled through the heart, producing tachycardia (increasedheart rate) and a rise in blood pressure; this is followed almost immediately by a reflex bradycardia. The Valsalvamaneuver occurs when one strains to defecate and urinate, uses the arms and upper trunk muscles to move up in bed,or strains during coughing, gagging, or vomiting. The increased pressure, immediate tachycardia, and reflex bradycardiacan bring about cardiac arrest in vulnerable heart patients.
2. increase in the pressure in the eustachian tube and middle ear by forcible exhalation against closed nostrils andmouth.
Miller-Keane Encyclopedia and Dictionary of Medicine, Nursing, and Allied Health, Seventh Edition. © 2003 by Saunders, an imprint of Elsevier, Inc. All rights reserved.
From my reading of the piece below, the use of the maneuver to control premature ejaculation appears to be variation on other techniques. However, I'm not sure how a sexual partner would interrupt one grabbing ones nose and puffing-up at that "special moment" ;^)))))
AS A SLEEP AID: A series of deep breathing (yoga like) and pre-meditation procedures would seem better. The artificial inducement of a cardiac constraint, followed by rise and then fall in blood pressure is something that probably won't kill most healthy people. You could bend down and grab your ankles, then compress your abdominal muscles too. Then ease-up and relax.
I copied the little piece below off the WEB:
Valsalva Maneuver
Definition
The Valsalva maneuver is performed by attempting to forcibly exhale while keeping the mouth and nose closed. It isused as a diagnostic tool to evaluate the condition of the heart and is sometimes done as a treatment to correctabnormal heart rhythms or relieve chest pain.
Purpose
The Valsalva maneuver is used with patients who have suspected heart abnormalities, often in conjunction withechocardiography. The maneuver is based on the fact that when a patient forcibly exhales against a closed nose andmouth while bearing down, as if having a bowel movement, specific changes occur in blood pressure and the rate andvolume of blood returning to the heart.
Comparing the changes in a diseased heart to those expected in a normal heart gives clues to the type and location ofheart damage. In addition, when a doctor listens to the chest with a stethoscope during the Valsalva maneuver,characteristic heart sounds are heard. Variations in these sounds can indicate the type of abnormality present in theheart. A 2004 study found that blood pressure response to the Valsalva maneuver could predict mortality in elderlypatients with congestive heart failure. This could prove to be a new noninvasive way to help determine how long elderlypatients with congestive heart failure are expected to live.
The Valsalva maneuver also corrects some rapid heartbeats originating in the atria. When the maneuver is donecorrectly, blood pressure rises. This forces the heart to respond by correcting its rhythm and beating more slowly. Onrare occasions, the Valsalva maneuver can be used to diminish chest pain in patients with mild coronary disease.
Unrelated to any evaluation of the heart, the Valsalva maneuver also is taught to patients with multiple sclerosis whoare unable to fully empty the bladder (flaccid bladder). It sometimes is used in sexual therapy to help men avoidpremature ejaculation.
Precautions
The Valsalva maneuver should not be performed by patients who have severe coronary artery disease, haveexperienced recent heart attack, or have a moderate to severe reduction in blood volume.
Description
When performed formally, the patient is asked to blow against an aneroid pressure measuring device (manometer) andmaintain a pressure of 40 millimeters of mercury (mm Hg) for 30 seconds. Or, less formally, the patient may be asked tobear down, as if having a bowel movement. During this 30 second period, a recording is made of the changes in bloodpressure and murmurs of the heart.
Preparation
The patient may be connected to a heart monitor and echocardiograph or the physician may simply use a stethoscope tomonitor the heart. Sometimes an indwelling needle is inserted for accurate pressure measurements, depending onwhether the procedure is being done for corrective or diagnostic purposes.
Aftercare
When this procedure is done to regulate irregular heart rhythms, the patient usually remains on a heart monitor toevaluate heartbeat.
Risks
The patient may feel dizzy or faint during the procedure, but serious consequences are rare. There is a risk that theValsalva maneuver can cause blood clots to detach, bleeding, and abnormal rhythms originating in the ventricle. It canalso cause cardiac arrest. Consequently, the procedure is usually performed in a setting where emergency equipment isaccessible.
Normal results
There are four characteristic changes or phases in a normal heart's response to the Valsalva maneuver. An abnormalityin any of these phases indicates a cardiovascular abnormality.
Resources
Periodicals
Jancin, Bruce. "New Mortality Predictor Found for Heart Failure." Family Practice News March 15, 2004: 48-49.
Key terms
Atria — The heart has four chambers. The right and left atria are at the top of the heart and receive returning blood fromthe veins. The right and left ventricles are at the bottom of the heart and act as the body's main pumps.
Echocardiography — An ultrasound test that shows the size, shape, and movement of the heart.
Gale Encyclopedia of Medicine. Copyright 2008 The Gale Group, Inc. All rights reserved.
Valsalva maneuver
[val-sal´vah]
1. increase of intrathoracic pressure by forcible exhalation against the closed glottis; this maneuver causes trapping ofblood in the great veins, preventing it from entering the chest and right atrium. When the breath is released, theintrathoracic pressure drops and the trapped blood is quickly propelled through the heart, producing tachycardia (increasedheart rate) and a rise in blood pressure; this is followed almost immediately by a reflex bradycardia. The Valsalvamaneuver occurs when one strains to defecate and urinate, uses the arms and upper trunk muscles to move up in bed,or strains during coughing, gagging, or vomiting. The increased pressure, immediate tachycardia, and reflex bradycardiacan bring about cardiac arrest in vulnerable heart patients.
2. increase in the pressure in the eustachian tube and middle ear by forcible exhalation against closed nostrils andmouth.
Miller-Keane Encyclopedia and Dictionary of Medicine, Nursing, and Allied Health, Seventh Edition. © 2003 by Saunders, an imprint of Elsevier, Inc. All rights reserved.
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