This weekend I took my 260 too Lake George In the Adirondaks. It was an absolute disaster from start to finnish. If it weren't for bad luck I wouldn't have had any at all!!! To start with the jib furlering line needed to be adjusted, no big deal. For some damn reason, I still don't know why, I threw it over board....brain fart # 1. then when the motor quits I dont bother to look to see if the line is caught in the prop, it was, instead in my infinate wisdom I decide that it wont start because it was in gear(all the while knowing full well I had started it in gear numerous times) so i put into nutral but it still wont start. This of course breaks the shifter loose so it is now stuck in only forward, it is then that I get the bright idea to look and see if the line is stuck in the prop. Cut the line out and what do you know????? everything works great except it only works great in forward.....brain fart # 2. So now I cant use he jib without a major hassel fureling it. So I only use the main, and the boat is rounding up all the time. Here comes the really fun part.....nice stiff breeze 2-3 foot waves and my rudder snaps in two pieces right belpow the pivot point. Because the boat was rounding up I had the sail"uncleated" so i could let it in and out at will. The wind, waves, and wild sail made it a real P.I.A. to lower the mainsail to regain controll of the boat. After all this happened in the space of 10 minutes the local Hunter dealer was extreemly unhelpful. while they didn't come out and say it their tone fo voice over the phone made it clear that it was friday and I didn't buy the boat there so they wouldnt help me. I know there was some talk of other people loosing rudder while under sail so could those of you that did would you mind sharing the reason why it happened so i can avoid this in the future. My guess is that the rudder was just defective and broke because of it. Thanks in advance Brad
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Brad I sorry to hear of your trouble
I'm sorry about the trouble you've been having. It sounds like you boat needs to visit a professional rigger to get adjusted and balanced and checked over. I cannot understand why your rudder broke in heavy winds unless it had been damaged somehow before hand. I sail with the main only often. when the winds are really heavy I sail with just the reefed main. Can you tell me the wind conditions. Were the wind over 25 knots? Can you tell me how rigged your boat and adjusted the rigging. In heavy winds my 23.5 rounds up whenever it is healing more than 35 degrees, but if you are heeling more than 15 or 20 degrees you are sailing slower and it is a sign to reduce sail.
I'm sorry about the trouble you've been having. It sounds like you boat needs to visit a professional rigger to get adjusted and balanced and checked over. I cannot understand why your rudder broke in heavy winds unless it had been damaged somehow before hand. I sail with the main only often. when the winds are really heavy I sail with just the reefed main. Can you tell me the wind conditions. Were the wind over 25 knots? Can you tell me how rigged your boat and adjusted the rigging. In heavy winds my 23.5 rounds up whenever it is healing more than 35 degrees, but if you are heeling more than 15 or 20 degrees you are sailing slower and it is a sign to reduce sail.
Ditto what Frank has asked.
But you know it happens to me some times that things do not go as planned. In every instance I sto what I am doing, move my focus onto something completely different (like a nice looking woman) and clear my thoughts. Have a cuppa, a few deep breaths and then re focus. It is amazing how you concentration/attitude and frustration all improve. Now I not saying you have an attitude problem. Far from it but it just seems to me that when things start to go wrong and tend to multiply as the day goes on it is time to sit back and relax. Get that mast looked at for it may seem you have too much rake in it. The rudder? Well there has often been talk about the strenght of them on 260's but it may have been damage before or perhaps you have been putting up with weather helm for a long time thus stressing the rudder.
But you know it happens to me some times that things do not go as planned. In every instance I sto what I am doing, move my focus onto something completely different (like a nice looking woman) and clear my thoughts. Have a cuppa, a few deep breaths and then re focus. It is amazing how you concentration/attitude and frustration all improve. Now I not saying you have an attitude problem. Far from it but it just seems to me that when things start to go wrong and tend to multiply as the day goes on it is time to sit back and relax. Get that mast looked at for it may seem you have too much rake in it. The rudder? Well there has often been talk about the strenght of them on 260's but it may have been damage before or perhaps you have been putting up with weather helm for a long time thus stressing the rudder.
Thanks Brad 
Brad, I was mourning the weekend loss of my non-floating winch handle due to my own stupidity and haste. Your story made me a feel a lot better. ;-) Dave
Brad, I was mourning the weekend loss of my non-floating winch handle due to my own stupidity and haste. Your story made me a feel a lot better. ;-) Dave
Why Did They Change Rudder?
I keep hearing the horror stories about rudders on the 260. Why did Hunter change the design from the 26. I have a '97 h26 and the rudder is simple, solid and effective (although a bit heavy). I've never had a real problem with it. Are there flaws with it that I'm not aware of?
I keep hearing the horror stories about rudders on the 260. Why did Hunter change the design from the 26. I have a '97 h26 and the rudder is simple, solid and effective (although a bit heavy). I've never had a real problem with it. Are there flaws with it that I'm not aware of?
I think they did
The 26 rudder is heavy and the 260 rudder floats I think. I think they only changed the core material and the layup it just as strong, but any rudder on any boat can break because it is usually the most stressed part of the underwater part of the boat. I'm not aware of the 260 rudder being worse than other boats rudders.
The 26 rudder is heavy and the 260 rudder floats I think. I think they only changed the core material and the layup it just as strong, but any rudder on any boat can break because it is usually the most stressed part of the underwater part of the boat. I'm not aware of the 260 rudder being worse than other boats rudders.
Great story
Brad, sell this story to hollywood, it'll make a great Chevy Chase sequel to family vacation. About the rudder, I suspect a lot of rudder problems are due to accumulated moisture in the laminates freezing in the winter and weakening the structure. My rudder in my 23.5 I purchased this year is a little rough, I'll be removing and storing it inside this winter to dry out and re gelcote it in the spring. Oh yeah, I dropped my jib tack shackle overboard 3 weeks ago. Must be an epedemic going around.
Brad, sell this story to hollywood, it'll make a great Chevy Chase sequel to family vacation. About the rudder, I suspect a lot of rudder problems are due to accumulated moisture in the laminates freezing in the winter and weakening the structure. My rudder in my 23.5 I purchased this year is a little rough, I'll be removing and storing it inside this winter to dry out and re gelcote it in the spring. Oh yeah, I dropped my jib tack shackle overboard 3 weeks ago. Must be an epedemic going around.
Brad-where are you...
I have a H26 (virtually the same boat) in Pultneyville in Lake Ontario. I'd be glad to help with tuning, setup if you're nearby, the Finger Lakes is a big area. Where did you buy the boat? My email is gfroch@frontiernet.net. By the way, my H26 rudder floats.
I have a H26 (virtually the same boat) in Pultneyville in Lake Ontario. I'd be glad to help with tuning, setup if you're nearby, the Finger Lakes is a big area. Where did you buy the boat? My email is gfroch@frontiernet.net. By the way, my H26 rudder floats.
Two broken rudders!
Brad, The Finger Lakes area is really fantastic, visited there as a youth in the late 60's. About your problem, can't help you with regard to throwing your rigging over board or fouling the prop etc. I think you have a better handle on those issues now anyway. I can however, hopefully shed some light on rudder failure. The following are accounts of two such failures that happened to me in the last year. Number 1 19 November, 2002, while sailing my brand new 2003 H-260 (4th time out) in moderate winds (15-18 knots, the strongest breeze yet encountered on this boat), while on a starboard tack and quickly approaching the shore line the rudder separated completely in two pieces just below the gudgeon pin location. We were healed about 20 degrees and I was trying to head up a bit and had also eased the main. I was feeling a pretty fair amount of weather helm just before the rudder failed. My boat has tiller steering. Fortunately, the dealer who sold me the boat was on board inspecting the ballast tank and through hull fittings for a potential leak(s). My dealer's calm while under fire was helpful. We quickly lowered the main and furled the jib. It's a bit interesting to be under full sail and close to shore with zero steering in that kind of breeze. Anyway, we got the outboard started and I was able to sort of "steer" us home. I had to straddle the engine while facing aft and turn the engine by hand to "aim" the boat at the dock. It was sort of a controlled crash landing against the dock due to a following wind but fortunately no one was hurt and the boat received no damage. I recovered the broken rudder because the uphaul line was still attached. These rudders are constructed of a composite of foam fiberglass and may have inherent weaknesses due to their construction. Butch was on his way to the St. Petersburg boat show so he took the broken rudder with him and reported the incident to Hunter. Hunter replaced the rudder and apparently made a recall on that batch of rudders. I thought that was a very good move on their part. Number 2 After winter haul-out, we put the boat in on April the 6th and motored over to our dock. Friday the 11th we spent the afternoon cleaning up the boat. Saturday afternoon we sailed up the Senica River about 6.5 miles toward the town of Clemson. The wind was out of the East at 10-14 knots so the entire leg was downwind, a lot of jibing. At this point in the journey we decided to turn to weather. We were on our first weather leg when the rudder broke in two just below the stainless steel housing. This was the second time the rudder had broken and I couldn't believe it. We managed to get the sails down and retrieve the rudder then got the engine started. This steering the boat with the motor is tricky business, very tiring and quite dangerous. My First Mate Donna, was trying to give me a break from this duty when she suddenly lost her footing on the transom and fell into the lake. Fortunately, she missed the propeller but the water was still quite frigid. I had to perform a rescue with a disabled boat I could hardly maneuver. I managed to get a line to her and finally pull her aboard. All this took about two very long minutes. I got her dried off and into some other clothing right away. Unbelievable as it seems, a couple in a bass boat were less than a 200 feet away when all this occurred and didn't even make a move to help. I managed to return us to the dock and make a relatively "safe" landing after a two hour journey that saw me balancing with one foot on the rudder base plate, the other foot steering the engine and a set of white knuckles on the stern rail. Upon our return I was physically and mentally exhausted. This sort of thing just shouldn’t happen. I've sailed this boat six times and two of those times have lost a rudder. Believe me, this is a pretty scary event to have to deal with. I related this story to my dealer the next day. He was understandable concerned and said he was headed for Florida on Monday and would hopefully be able to pick up another rudder. I don't know if it's the rudder set up on this boat or just shoddy rudders, these things are made out of nothing but foam with a 1/8" layer of fiberglass and paint. The last time this happened, Hunter made a “quiet” recall of that batch of rudders, maybe they gave me one of the bad ones as a replacement. Epilog My dealer drove up from Lake Lanier, GA Friday afternoon with a new rudder and some other miscellaneous replacement stuff we requested. Apparently, the second rudder I received was also part of the faulty batch that Hunter was trying to recall and they just didn’t realize it when they gave it to my dealer. It is my understanding that Hunter contracts the fabrication of some of their rudders including those for the H260. This new rudder seems to be quite a bit more substantial than the last two, a lot heavier. When I installed it in order to locate the hole positions, it took almost no effort at all to downhaul into position. I drilled it for the hold pins and epoxied all the holes put a silicone polish on it and reinstalled. So far so good, the third rudder seems to be the charm. I’ve sailed it over a hundred miles this season in all sort of weather with no problems. Brad, is your H260 a late 2002 or early 2003, if so you may have been sailing with a faulty rudder. If your boat is an older model a pervious owner possibly could have fit it with a faulty rudder. If so, contact Hunter directly, they will be glad to help, I’m sure. A bit on rudder care. Always stow the rudder in the up position when the boat is a float and not in use (i.e. overnight or longer). This puts less long term stress on the steering system and can help prevent water from entering the rudder through very small openings. Examine all drilled holes for proper epoxy seals because water can enter at all these locations also. Examine the entire rudder each time you sail for any damage, cracks, and dings. Remove the rudder once a year and examine all control lines for chafe, inspect all stainless hardware and hold pins. Check the rubber washers located inside the stainless steel housing for wear. R&R any irregularity in the system as soon as it is noted. Fair winds this fall!
Brad, The Finger Lakes area is really fantastic, visited there as a youth in the late 60's. About your problem, can't help you with regard to throwing your rigging over board or fouling the prop etc. I think you have a better handle on those issues now anyway. I can however, hopefully shed some light on rudder failure. The following are accounts of two such failures that happened to me in the last year. Number 1 19 November, 2002, while sailing my brand new 2003 H-260 (4th time out) in moderate winds (15-18 knots, the strongest breeze yet encountered on this boat), while on a starboard tack and quickly approaching the shore line the rudder separated completely in two pieces just below the gudgeon pin location. We were healed about 20 degrees and I was trying to head up a bit and had also eased the main. I was feeling a pretty fair amount of weather helm just before the rudder failed. My boat has tiller steering. Fortunately, the dealer who sold me the boat was on board inspecting the ballast tank and through hull fittings for a potential leak(s). My dealer's calm while under fire was helpful. We quickly lowered the main and furled the jib. It's a bit interesting to be under full sail and close to shore with zero steering in that kind of breeze. Anyway, we got the outboard started and I was able to sort of "steer" us home. I had to straddle the engine while facing aft and turn the engine by hand to "aim" the boat at the dock. It was sort of a controlled crash landing against the dock due to a following wind but fortunately no one was hurt and the boat received no damage. I recovered the broken rudder because the uphaul line was still attached. These rudders are constructed of a composite of foam fiberglass and may have inherent weaknesses due to their construction. Butch was on his way to the St. Petersburg boat show so he took the broken rudder with him and reported the incident to Hunter. Hunter replaced the rudder and apparently made a recall on that batch of rudders. I thought that was a very good move on their part. Number 2 After winter haul-out, we put the boat in on April the 6th and motored over to our dock. Friday the 11th we spent the afternoon cleaning up the boat. Saturday afternoon we sailed up the Senica River about 6.5 miles toward the town of Clemson. The wind was out of the East at 10-14 knots so the entire leg was downwind, a lot of jibing. At this point in the journey we decided to turn to weather. We were on our first weather leg when the rudder broke in two just below the stainless steel housing. This was the second time the rudder had broken and I couldn't believe it. We managed to get the sails down and retrieve the rudder then got the engine started. This steering the boat with the motor is tricky business, very tiring and quite dangerous. My First Mate Donna, was trying to give me a break from this duty when she suddenly lost her footing on the transom and fell into the lake. Fortunately, she missed the propeller but the water was still quite frigid. I had to perform a rescue with a disabled boat I could hardly maneuver. I managed to get a line to her and finally pull her aboard. All this took about two very long minutes. I got her dried off and into some other clothing right away. Unbelievable as it seems, a couple in a bass boat were less than a 200 feet away when all this occurred and didn't even make a move to help. I managed to return us to the dock and make a relatively "safe" landing after a two hour journey that saw me balancing with one foot on the rudder base plate, the other foot steering the engine and a set of white knuckles on the stern rail. Upon our return I was physically and mentally exhausted. This sort of thing just shouldn’t happen. I've sailed this boat six times and two of those times have lost a rudder. Believe me, this is a pretty scary event to have to deal with. I related this story to my dealer the next day. He was understandable concerned and said he was headed for Florida on Monday and would hopefully be able to pick up another rudder. I don't know if it's the rudder set up on this boat or just shoddy rudders, these things are made out of nothing but foam with a 1/8" layer of fiberglass and paint. The last time this happened, Hunter made a “quiet” recall of that batch of rudders, maybe they gave me one of the bad ones as a replacement. Epilog My dealer drove up from Lake Lanier, GA Friday afternoon with a new rudder and some other miscellaneous replacement stuff we requested. Apparently, the second rudder I received was also part of the faulty batch that Hunter was trying to recall and they just didn’t realize it when they gave it to my dealer. It is my understanding that Hunter contracts the fabrication of some of their rudders including those for the H260. This new rudder seems to be quite a bit more substantial than the last two, a lot heavier. When I installed it in order to locate the hole positions, it took almost no effort at all to downhaul into position. I drilled it for the hold pins and epoxied all the holes put a silicone polish on it and reinstalled. So far so good, the third rudder seems to be the charm. I’ve sailed it over a hundred miles this season in all sort of weather with no problems. Brad, is your H260 a late 2002 or early 2003, if so you may have been sailing with a faulty rudder. If your boat is an older model a pervious owner possibly could have fit it with a faulty rudder. If so, contact Hunter directly, they will be glad to help, I’m sure. A bit on rudder care. Always stow the rudder in the up position when the boat is a float and not in use (i.e. overnight or longer). This puts less long term stress on the steering system and can help prevent water from entering the rudder through very small openings. Examine all drilled holes for proper epoxy seals because water can enter at all these locations also. Examine the entire rudder each time you sail for any damage, cracks, and dings. Remove the rudder once a year and examine all control lines for chafe, inspect all stainless hardware and hold pins. Check the rubber washers located inside the stainless steel housing for wear. R&R any irregularity in the system as soon as it is noted. Fair winds this fall!
wind conditions
The wind on lake George was forcasted to be 10-15 mph. Im not sure exactly what it was but it felt like it was closer to 15-20mph. either way not enough in my opinion to break the rudder. The boat is a brand new 2003 model and I expirenced very heavy wether helm before the rudder failure. as far as relaxing, I got good and drunk at the dock friday night with a buddy on the boat!!! And yes the finger lakes are awesome, lived on owasco all my life and wouldnt change it for anything. and Gerard, I will contact you via email I think and thanks for the offer. Brad
The wind on lake George was forcasted to be 10-15 mph. Im not sure exactly what it was but it felt like it was closer to 15-20mph. either way not enough in my opinion to break the rudder. The boat is a brand new 2003 model and I expirenced very heavy wether helm before the rudder failure. as far as relaxing, I got good and drunk at the dock friday night with a buddy on the boat!!! And yes the finger lakes are awesome, lived on owasco all my life and wouldnt change it for anything. and Gerard, I will contact you via email I think and thanks for the offer. Brad
Learning curve
We've all had incidents like yours (those of us who are honest will admit it) But it seems we learn quickly from each one. Good luck, those same things probably won't happen again. You learn quickly on a sailboat.
We've all had incidents like yours (those of us who are honest will admit it) But it seems we learn quickly from each one. Good luck, those same things probably won't happen again. You learn quickly on a sailboat.
We've all had days like that....
but I usually wake up in a cold sweat and realize it was just a nightmare... man, hate hearing tells like yours. Regroup- Repair- and get back in the saddle.. it has to be better next time out.
but I usually wake up in a cold sweat and realize it was just a nightmare... man, hate hearing tells like yours. Regroup- Repair- and get back in the saddle.. it has to be better next time out.
We Sure Have!
We have not experienced a broken rudder, but we have had the mast come down on top of my daughter and I. The failure turned out to be on the upper portion of the jibstay. The steel "hook" above the steel cable straightened, likely due to being tuned too tight. Sailing downwind at hull speed, the mast was pushed forward, the jibstay appearantly twisted, allowing the end of the jibstay to pop out of the mast. Not a fun experience. No serious injuries. The mast came down slow enough that the only damage was the jibstay that caused the problem ($100). We are now back to sailing without fear that it will happen again.
We have not experienced a broken rudder, but we have had the mast come down on top of my daughter and I. The failure turned out to be on the upper portion of the jibstay. The steel "hook" above the steel cable straightened, likely due to being tuned too tight. Sailing downwind at hull speed, the mast was pushed forward, the jibstay appearantly twisted, allowing the end of the jibstay to pop out of the mast. Not a fun experience. No serious injuries. The mast came down slow enough that the only damage was the jibstay that caused the problem ($100). We are now back to sailing without fear that it will happen again.
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