More on Odor Control with Questions

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Jay Hill

During recent discussions about odor on boats, Peggie mentioned that the head is not the only place where odor can begin; she mentioned items such as bilge as culprits. Knowing my 1985 H31 was way overdue for bilge cleaning (looked like it had never been done) I decided to tackle the job this past weekend. As mentioned in many threads, the bilge-to-bilge drain holes are not always in the absolute lowest position in the compartment. My boat was no different as each compartment had no less than 1/4" water standing in it. I keep a "one drip every 15 seconds" leak in my stuffing box so I will never have a completely dry bilge, but I'd like the water to flow instead of stand in each of the compartments. After massive cleaning with nothing but water and a Scotch-brite pad, I was then able to actually see the drain holes from compartment to compartment. (It was really nasty.) I noticed the drain holes do not have tubes or hoses connecting them between compartments. The water runs over the top of the liner, into the drain hole onto the inner hull, then eventually into another drain hole and onto the top of the liner again. With each of the drain holes being roughly 1/8" above the level of the previous hull portion, a good bit of water was being trapped in the hull, never able to reach the lower bilge for pumping overboard. With a dirty bilge area to begin with, this meant grunge, critters, or whatever were being distributed to the inner hull instead of directly to the lower bilge. The biggest problem was the shower sump. The shower sump does not drain directly to the lower bilge but travels over the inner hull on both sides of the lower bilge liner to drain holes that are 1/2" higher than the inner hull. I also wanted to rewire the bilge pump, clean it, etc. so decided to remove a cable tie-down screw from the starboard vertical wall of the lower bulkhead. When I removed the screw, a 1/8" stream of water began gushing out of the hole! Using a wet-dry shopvac I was able to remove just over 4 gallons of water from the inner hull by sucking it through this and one of the drain holes. (An extra 32 lbs. lighter for racing now :) ) When vacuuming, I noticed I was getting a lot of "gunk" such as mold, etc. out of the space under the liner. The water pouring out of the screw hole was so rancid I could hardly stand it and knew I found the worst culprit of tiny odors on the boat. After doing that much work, I still thought it better to rinse anything left and decided on a test at the same time. I ran the shower in the head and timed how long it took to get water to the bilge. Four minutes and 20 seconds later, water finally started coming out of the drain holes and into the bilge. Another vacuuming of about 25 minutes removed another 4 gallons of water, this time, much cleaner. I decided to leave the cable tie-down screw out and instead secured the wires to the under side of the cabin sole. This tiny little hole seems to be the lowest hull drain into the bilge although not designed for it. After removal of all rancid water and "gunk" from the boat and into the marina's treatment plant, I discovered the bottom side of the cabin sole's bilge panel is "...a great place for a Stick-Up" (Anybody know anything about Stick-Ups that makes this a bad idea?) I would suspect that the boat's inner hull might drain as designed if one was to beat their way to windward for at least 4 tacks. This might drain the hull into the bilge where it can be pumped, but it's not always convenient to get underway after a shower. I know this has been discussed in another thread, but my decision was to use the trusty Dremmel tool to carefully extend the drain holes low enough to the hull that water will flow easier. The questions are (finally): HOW does one keep water out of the inner hull when showering on board? (Any kits to upgrade the shower sump to bilge flow?) HOW does one keep any standing water on the inner hull from smelling up the boat? Does standing water in the inner hull damage the hull in any way? (I've not completed my fiberglass education yet. My boat is turning 15 and although still floating, the last bottom job revealed a lot of blisters on the outer hull. Do blisters form on the inner hull if standing water is left on it? If so, how does this effect the structural stability of the hull? HOW long can this go on before the keel pulls off the bottom of the boat and it sinks?) Do newer Hunters have these same issues? Do any boats have watertight liners? If so, who and does it really matter? Thanks all for any input.
 
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Rafi

Shower drain

I just bought a 1985 H31, and the engineer doing the survey for me, already warned me about the shower drain problems in this model which you have discovered the hard way. Therefore, the shower will not be used till I find a solution. The suggested solution by the engineer, was to plug the drain hole in the shower and add a pump with a manually activated switch to drain the water out during/after showering (as in newer boats). So the next step will be to find the right pump and connect it to an outlet. I would be also very interested to find out if anyone have done it, and can recommend a specific pump.
 
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Jim O'Brien

Shower on H33

My H33 82 has a separate holding compartment for the shower. There is a Pump located in the bottom of this bilge with a pull switch located on the Starboard side of the head which pumps the water from the same through-hull opening as the regular bilge pump. There must be a 'T' and one way valve somewhere. I'm sure that you could set up the same thing and plug the drain hole.
 
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Jay Hill

Difference in H31 and H33 Showers

Jim, I am also familiar with the H33 shower and it has about 3-4" of "stall" or sump in the bottom and a hose leading from the sump drain hole to the sump pump and overboard. On the H31, however, a teak deck grate is used on the head sole and has only two inches of space under it. There is a rise in the liner just aft of this area, but it has the compression post and aft head bulkhead resting on it, so it would be difficult to mount a pump in it. Just outside (to port of the head) the head door the shower sump continues with another teak grate panel; also with only two inches clearance underneath. Both sides (still same sump floor) have a drain hole into the liner and onto the inner hull. Is there such a thing as a flat pump? I could put a "flat" pump in the sump area and run a hose directly to the lower bilge for pumping overboard by regular bilge pump. Any one know of a really small pump for this purpose?
 
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John Blakely

Shower bilge runoff

Your article raises good questions. I recently bought a l985 H31, and am concerned with shower draining, and accumulated under liner buildup. I am going to run a larger diameter drain hose from each of the drain holes in my shower pan directly to the main bilge. I will dremmel out the holes so they are flush with the bottom of the pan and then put 5200 adhesive around the openings to secure them and leak proof them. I also can't easily figure how to put a shower pump in, so this may be a viable solution.
 
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Don

I did it.

after much searching, I finally found a bilge pump to use in the pan in my '84 H31' shower area. Unfortunately, it was a old pump my father had and I don't remember the brand name. I just barely fits under the grate. I tried everything and looked everywhere for a pump, generally to no avail. My father finally found this old one and it worked. I will check the next time I am at the boat and find the brand name - probably a week or so. I suspect the boat is under 2 feet snow right now as we just survived a 24 hour blizzard in the DC area.
 
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Peggie Hall/Head Mistress

One solution to shower sump odor problems:

Keep it clean! A good sump pump is a great addition to your boat...but even the best of pumps aren't a substitute for good housekeeping. At the risk of appearing self-serving (which I don't deny, but only about things that actually WORK...and everything in our line actually works 'cuz I have to use it!)...a few ounces of C.P. bio-enzymatic bowl, sump and drain cleaner down the shower drain after each shower will do several things: the enzymes "eat" soap scum, hair and body oils washed off by showering...and the little buggers also destroy odor on contact. The next shower rinses the sump a bit...if the water lands in your bilge, the enzymes certainly won't do IT any harm! Your drains will run clearer and the boat will smell better. C.P. is available from the online store right here on this site. Give it a try...and if you don't like it, you can complain to the top management of the company that makes it--and be sure your complaint is read!--by posting your comments right here.
 
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Rafi

Flat bildge pump

I agree it could be a challenge to find a small enough pump to fit into the 2" clearance underneath in the H31 (waiting for the brand of pump from Don's posting). However I still prefer this approach, so I am wondering, if such a shallow pump does not exist, is it possible to mount the pump inside the under the sink cabinet, and run a hose to it from the shower drain, maybe with a sump filter on its end. Probably the pump needs to be a self primed one. Any thoughts?
 
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Jay Hill

Probably a mix of the previous

I think the cheapest way is to run a hose from one of the drain plugs "Dremmeled" out to make sure all the sump is drained, to the bilge, plug the other hole completely, and use Peggie's C.P. after use to keep the hose and the bilge free of all the stuff that goes into it. Combining suggestions seems to be an option for me on this one. Problem now is actually running the hose. I'll have to look at the possibilities next time I'm on the boat. Will report.
 
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Sam Lust

If I were ---

If I were faced with the same problem (luckily I'm not, I have a 33 with a proper sump built before Hunter got "smart") I would look into something along the lines of what Rafi of Israel was thinking. Possibly the Jabsco low profile pump strainer shown on page 421 of the 1999 E & B (West Marine) catalog. With a wee bit of ingenuity I think this could be mounted grate-up under the floor of the shower. There appear to be little "standoffs" which keep it slightly off the floor to allow water to flow in in it's intended mounting position. I would grind these off to enable a flush fit when mounted face-up. For a pump I would try a diaphram type because they have lift capability and can run dry . The inexpensive fresh water pumps are diaphram types. I would look into the $51.00 Nautilus manual demand pump shown on page 423 of the same catalog. This could be mounted remotely, but still fairly close, as low as possible in a nearby locker. A bit of hose, a switch, some wire, a mushroom hwaded through hull and a wee bit of time and you've got a system. Running it directly overboard is much better than sloshing it all through the hull. The shower-head floor would act as the sump and would need thorough and complete rinsing, but the floor is easier to rinse than the hull and liner.
 
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