Amateur Sailor Questions I'm new to sailboating and in the market for an older used boat. To a newbie like me there seems to be a bewildering array of options out there both in terms of type of boat and gear. I wondered if anyone could provide some suggestions about the type of boat that might meet my needs. Some of my questions may seem naive but here goes.... Constraints ---I will spend most of my time in the Great Lakes particularly Lake Superior ---Although I will do a lot of daysailing I want the option of cruising with a few family members or friends --- Only have about $10,000 available ---I'm tall Questions ---- Are there some manufacturers that are better than others in terms of reliability? ---- If I want to sail by myself, is there essential equipment to have? ---- How best to determine if a boat is in good shape? ---- Is it expensive to move a boat from a location (<500 miles) if it doesn't have a trailer? ---- Please feel free to advise me on what is my best path Thanks in Advance!!!
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If you have to have it trucked.....
If you are purchasing a boat that has be trucked 25 or 1500 the charges are really not that different. You may as well find the boat you want and pay the piper. They do charge you for mileage but it is probably something like $1.00 - 1.50/mile. You have charges for lifting the boat out of the water, removing the rigging, mast etc and preping the boat for transport. Then when you get there you do the opposite again. If you have a vehicle that can pull a trailer, then you may be able to borrow a trailer to move the boat too. Catalina, Hunters, Newport you name it. If they have been taken care of you will probably be OKAY. You are going to need to look around to find something that pleases you. There are a lot of good old boats to be had. Be sure to get a surveyor. They charge from $10-20/ft. They usually pay for themselves either in the valuation of the boat and/or if they find something that you may not be aware.
If you are purchasing a boat that has be trucked 25 or 1500 the charges are really not that different. You may as well find the boat you want and pay the piper. They do charge you for mileage but it is probably something like $1.00 - 1.50/mile. You have charges for lifting the boat out of the water, removing the rigging, mast etc and preping the boat for transport. Then when you get there you do the opposite again. If you have a vehicle that can pull a trailer, then you may be able to borrow a trailer to move the boat too. Catalina, Hunters, Newport you name it. If they have been taken care of you will probably be OKAY. You are going to need to look around to find something that pleases you. There are a lot of good old boats to be had. Be sure to get a surveyor. They charge from $10-20/ft. They usually pay for themselves either in the valuation of the boat and/or if they find something that you may not be aware.
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Doug T.
Online listings
Check the internet for boats for sale in your area. Go see them. Go see lots of them. Watch people sail them. Look at comparable boats in the yards and marinas. Get a broker to show them to you. Compare the listed sale price with the prices in bucvalu.com. Take your time. Look at 50, 100, 200 boats. Buy a book on boat surveying. READ IT! Home in on two or three boats that fit your needs and seem in decent shape. Get a survey on the best one. Watch the surveyor do his work. LISTEN TO THE SURVEYOR! If he or she gives it a poor rating, run away -- don't fall into the trap of buying the boat regardless of what the surveyor says (been there, done that). Consider the surveyor's fee on that boat as being part of the price you pay for your sailing education. If it's in reasonable shape, negotiate the price based on comparative market valuations, location, condition, seller desparation, etc. If it doesn't pan out, go on to the next. Figure 3 or 4 or 5 months for all this. Less if you're lucky, more if you're picky. Have fun!!!
Check the internet for boats for sale in your area. Go see them. Go see lots of them. Watch people sail them. Look at comparable boats in the yards and marinas. Get a broker to show them to you. Compare the listed sale price with the prices in bucvalu.com. Take your time. Look at 50, 100, 200 boats. Buy a book on boat surveying. READ IT! Home in on two or three boats that fit your needs and seem in decent shape. Get a survey on the best one. Watch the surveyor do his work. LISTEN TO THE SURVEYOR! If he or she gives it a poor rating, run away -- don't fall into the trap of buying the boat regardless of what the surveyor says (been there, done that). Consider the surveyor's fee on that boat as being part of the price you pay for your sailing education. If it's in reasonable shape, negotiate the price based on comparative market valuations, location, condition, seller desparation, etc. If it doesn't pan out, go on to the next. Figure 3 or 4 or 5 months for all this. Less if you're lucky, more if you're picky. Have fun!!!
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Ken Cobb
$10,000
Your budget is a factor. It would allow you to buy a decent pocket cruiser in the 22-23' range, 10-15 years old. I am assuming you hire a surveyor, truck the boat to your location, and spend some money to upgrade old rigging and that sort of thing. They are great boats to learn on, and entertain four to six passengers okay, but they lack headroom in the cabin, and pocket cruisers aren't quite as seaworthy as larger cruisers in rough weather. If you try to buy a mid-sized cruiser on your budget, say a boat in the 25-27' range, you will have to buy 20-25 year old boat, and the chance of having to put more money into it is higher. You will get more cabin headroom with the larger boat, and you will get a heavier keel for handling Great Lakes sea conditions. The likelihood that a boat in these age ranges will need new sails and rigging is high, so that will have to be built into the purchase budget.
Your budget is a factor. It would allow you to buy a decent pocket cruiser in the 22-23' range, 10-15 years old. I am assuming you hire a surveyor, truck the boat to your location, and spend some money to upgrade old rigging and that sort of thing. They are great boats to learn on, and entertain four to six passengers okay, but they lack headroom in the cabin, and pocket cruisers aren't quite as seaworthy as larger cruisers in rough weather. If you try to buy a mid-sized cruiser on your budget, say a boat in the 25-27' range, you will have to buy 20-25 year old boat, and the chance of having to put more money into it is higher. You will get more cabin headroom with the larger boat, and you will get a heavier keel for handling Great Lakes sea conditions. The likelihood that a boat in these age ranges will need new sails and rigging is high, so that will have to be built into the purchase budget.
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K Cobb
One more thing...
Great Lakes sailing at your latitude may involve fog; that is something to check out. I sail on an inland lake where even a radio is unncessary. On Lake Huron I assume you will need a good radio and that you might even need radar for fog. Those are all extra cost items, of course, so it may not be possible to buy and equip more than a pocket cruiser for your projected use. Great Lakes sailors should weigh in and correct me if I am wrong.
Great Lakes sailing at your latitude may involve fog; that is something to check out. I sail on an inland lake where even a radio is unncessary. On Lake Huron I assume you will need a good radio and that you might even need radar for fog. Those are all extra cost items, of course, so it may not be possible to buy and equip more than a pocket cruiser for your projected use. Great Lakes sailors should weigh in and correct me if I am wrong.
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Ron
Sounds Like....
Sounds like you need some hands on experiance. I suggest you take a sailing course from a company that has several different size boats. Most of what you want is somewhat contradictory. You want big boat advantages at a small boat price. Best to try some different size boats before you decide on what you really need and what you really want. They aren't always the same thing. A 23ft boat can be had in good shape for around $6G's, but to take a group of friends out would be like how many people can you fit in a Volkswagon! Are they just going to cram in or do they want to do something. Four people on a 23ftr is about max in my opinion. Good Luck and do a lot of shopping... Ron/KA5HZV
Sounds like you need some hands on experiance. I suggest you take a sailing course from a company that has several different size boats. Most of what you want is somewhat contradictory. You want big boat advantages at a small boat price. Best to try some different size boats before you decide on what you really need and what you really want. They aren't always the same thing. A 23ft boat can be had in good shape for around $6G's, but to take a group of friends out would be like how many people can you fit in a Volkswagon! Are they just going to cram in or do they want to do something. Four people on a 23ftr is about max in my opinion. Good Luck and do a lot of shopping... Ron/KA5HZV
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Mike Whalen
Seems very doable
I have a 1976 O'day 25. The headroom isn't great but there ain't room for a soccer game anyway. Standing in the cabin with the hatch open is fine. Witht eh hatch closed it would probably be close quickly. My boat had good sails when I bought it and the 9.9 outboard is great. Really NEEDED nothing. That hasn't stopped me spending money. I paid $4500. No trailer. I'd go to www.boattrader.com. It allows you to put in the gographic area, size of boat and $$ then gives you a list. I did that and looked at several. In the end I bought my boat at a club. It was not liseted anywhere. So spend some time wandering around marinas and such looking for for sale signs. Sailing is not as popular here as it is in your area so wee get better deals. Good luck and enjoy. Mike
I have a 1976 O'day 25. The headroom isn't great but there ain't room for a soccer game anyway. Standing in the cabin with the hatch open is fine. Witht eh hatch closed it would probably be close quickly. My boat had good sails when I bought it and the 9.9 outboard is great. Really NEEDED nothing. That hasn't stopped me spending money. I paid $4500. No trailer. I'd go to www.boattrader.com. It allows you to put in the gographic area, size of boat and $$ then gives you a list. I did that and looked at several. In the end I bought my boat at a club. It was not liseted anywhere. So spend some time wandering around marinas and such looking for for sale signs. Sailing is not as popular here as it is in your area so wee get better deals. Good luck and enjoy. Mike
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mike
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Mike
Try before you buy!
Before you buy anything (great deal or not), sail as much as you can on other peoples' boats. It is the only way to find out what you like/need. Make a brutally honest assessment of how you will sail; many of us have dreams of sailing to the South Seas, but most of us daysail. Buy the boat that fits your needs, not your most unlikely dreams. You will be much happier in the long run. A nice little cruiser for under $10,000? Easy. I agree with the other poster who suggested the Pearson 26 and Catalina 27. You should also check out the Catalina 25. If you find that you really will be daysailing and only overnighting occasionally, I would also give serious consideration to the Catalina 22 and the Oday 23 (my particular favorites).
Before you buy anything (great deal or not), sail as much as you can on other peoples' boats. It is the only way to find out what you like/need. Make a brutally honest assessment of how you will sail; many of us have dreams of sailing to the South Seas, but most of us daysail. Buy the boat that fits your needs, not your most unlikely dreams. You will be much happier in the long run. A nice little cruiser for under $10,000? Easy. I agree with the other poster who suggested the Pearson 26 and Catalina 27. You should also check out the Catalina 25. If you find that you really will be daysailing and only overnighting occasionally, I would also give serious consideration to the Catalina 22 and the Oday 23 (my particular favorites).
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Bob
All good advise
My personal favorite boat for that money is a pop-top Catalina 25 with trailer. There are thousands out there. Make sure the outboards in good shape, a new motor will dent your budget.
My personal favorite boat for that money is a pop-top Catalina 25 with trailer. There are thousands out there. Make sure the outboards in good shape, a new motor will dent your budget.
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Darline Spring
I'm a novice sailor, too.
Last year this time, hubby and I were in the same boat, wondering what to buy and how much to spend. We ended up buying an older Balboa 22' for around $3600 w/trailer. Our first lesson was a boating safety course offered by our local Coast Guard Auxillary. This yesr, I took a 3-day sailing class in St Michaels, MD. We sailed a C&C30. We've been on a 2-day trip and a one 6 day cruise on the Chesapeake. Let me tell you....after day 2, we quickly decided that our boat is WAY TOO SMALL - and we are both of average height. Needless to say, we're now shopping around for another boat. Get a survey. There are so many things that you'll need and the cost will add up. So far this year we're up to just over $5900 - new trailer hitch for the Jeep, yacht club fees, dingy & motor, and misc items (bumpers, new cushions for the cabin, charts, clothing, and day trip expenses). Sailing can be expensive, but in the long run it's worth every red dime. Good luck to you in selecting a boat. Happy sailing, Darline
Last year this time, hubby and I were in the same boat, wondering what to buy and how much to spend. We ended up buying an older Balboa 22' for around $3600 w/trailer. Our first lesson was a boating safety course offered by our local Coast Guard Auxillary. This yesr, I took a 3-day sailing class in St Michaels, MD. We sailed a C&C30. We've been on a 2-day trip and a one 6 day cruise on the Chesapeake. Let me tell you....after day 2, we quickly decided that our boat is WAY TOO SMALL - and we are both of average height. Needless to say, we're now shopping around for another boat. Get a survey. There are so many things that you'll need and the cost will add up. So far this year we're up to just over $5900 - new trailer hitch for the Jeep, yacht club fees, dingy & motor, and misc items (bumpers, new cushions for the cabin, charts, clothing, and day trip expenses). Sailing can be expensive, but in the long run it's worth every red dime. Good luck to you in selecting a boat. Happy sailing, Darline
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