More info on MacGregor Sizes

Mar 20, 2012
3,983
Cal 34-III, MacGregor 25 Salem, Oregon
as for length of the boat, as the boat get longer it also gets wider and the cabin space gets taller, (and the mast height is taller)....

catalina also puts out a good boat, but they are usually quite a bit heavier than the macgregors... some say this is good and some dont like a heavy boat....

I think that with what you are describing and discussing, you wont be happy with anything less than 25' no matter what brand you buy....

in the macgregor line, which seems to be the way you are leaning, for roominess with a galley, dinette and head, you have the 25 swing keel, or the 26 water ballasted.... study those two boats and then look at other brands in the same size, to see the differences.... I had a 21 and liked it, but moved up to a 25 with more room within a short time... you can see both in my photos... scroll down on the right

if you want to comfortably camp on the boat, the 21 can be a bit crowded with two people, especially if you have a portapottie. the 25 and 26 has ample room for a week cruise or longer, without feeling cramped for space, and has an enclosed portapottie area, unless someone has modified it and removed the bulkheads. they both have pop tops to allow for standing room in the cabin area.... they both usually have lifelines with a pulpit and a taffrail, although some were ordered without...

they are both nice boats for the money and the 26 owners will swear by their water ballasted boats, and the 25 owners absolutely love theirs with the swing keel... all other amenities and rigging are so close in comparison that it really only matters how you want your boat ballasted...
it has already has been said in an ealier post that a water ballasted boat is a bit more tender to begin with than the swing keeler, but at the degree of heel you want to keep the boat at when sailing, it doesnt matter. heeling force is a matter of sail trim, or lack thereof... if you like to sail with the rail in the water, either boat will do that if you have it tuned and trimmed properly.
but also keep in mind, any boat will be faster and point better the flatter you can keep it in any given wind.... one of the thrills of sailing is searching for the sweet spot where the balance between wind and heeling effect, gives you the best speed or pointing... you cant have both, but there is a balance within the boat somewhere, depending on how you have it loaded (weight fore or aft), how the rigging and mast is tuned, and how the sails are trimmed.... :D
 
Mar 20, 2012
3,983
Cal 34-III, MacGregor 25 Salem, Oregon
Thanks for the info...I so enjoyed the ride on the 26 that I would certainly consider it. I just know the day will come that my hubby will want to go out and I won't and I want to feel secure he can handle the 26 by himself. Right now I get concerned when he takes the 18 Hobie out because I know he doesn't weigh enough to right it when he heels over. We have put a turtle on for that reason, but still doesn't help when he can't get it back over and I have to motor out to him and pull it with the boat to get it back up. I know it will be a big commitment and we just don't know enough to feel comfortable with the total process of picking and buying. Even after time on the forums and researching, it seems like a very ominous task we have set for ourselves. I am concerned on the weight of a sailboat on a lift as I have not really been able to get a solid answer on weight fully loaded on a lift. I have also been told if I can have a lift modified to drop the keel back down after it is on the lift it will help with stability immensely. If anyone has experience with a macgregor particularly on a boat lift, as in just a standard boat lift, not a specialized custom modified sailboat lift I would love to hear your advice and thoughts. I know it may seem crazy to do a boatlift, but we have pd the price to have a lakefront cabin for the ease of access for all the other water activities we do. I really don't want to have to get moorage for a sailboat if I can help it. That was one of the big reasons for looking at a 20ish foot boat. To give you an idea, i currently have a 4200 lb boat lift for our 18 ft sea ray...overkill...a bit, but was planning for the future if we keep skiing as much as we do and upgrade into an older true ski boat. I actually have a contact that is selling a 4600 lb cantilever boat lift just like ours for a reasonable price. If that could handle a 26ft Mac I would almost be dancing...Now to go back to convincing my hubby if we get rid of the Hobie 18 and get a sailboat he could look at a Hobie 14 turbo...sigh.
you can set the boat up for ease in single handing, and if the boat is set up right, it wont blow over like the catamaran will do....(but neither will it reach hobie speeds)
the beauty of monohulls is that they are forgiving.... scary sometimes, but forgiving. a knock down will usually round you up into the wind and the boat will pop back up with the sails luffing.... if the boat is rigged right going turtle is very, very rare. usually boats sink or become swamped for in other ways for other reasons, and usually by someone who doesnt know any better but think they do.

the only learning curve will be managing the lines single handedly until you get them all run to the cockpit within a reasonable reach of the helmsman....

you already have the concept of sailing so it will be an easy transition, and at a more relaxed and leisurely pace than riding a hobie....
 
May 4, 2005
4,062
Macgregor 26d Ft Lauderdale, Fl
Right now I get concerned when he takes the 18 Hobie out because I know he doesn't weigh enough to right it when he heels over. We have put a turtle on for that reason, but still doesn't help when he can't get it back over and I have to motor out to him and pull it with the boat to get it back up. .

I had a H16.

you can use a waterbag, or there is a stay release kit that allows 1 person to right a flipped hobie.

I also single hand my m26d all the time. 1st year without an autopilot. with an autopilot is pretty easy to do it myself.
 
Dec 11, 2008
1,338
catalina C27 stillwater
The chances of turtle-ing a monohull are almost non-existent for your situation. If your husband is already sailing an H18, he can single-hand the boats being discussed easily.

The first fundamental difference is you can tip small boats over as the SAILOR is the ballast. As you go bigger the builder has to include the ballast.

A second fundamental difference is the rudder. The Hobie always has a rudder in the water until at almost 90 degrees. The monohull boats in discussion lift the rudder out of the water at relatively modest heel angles compared to the Hobie. The monohull rudders lose bite/control well before the boat wants to flip on its own. As was already shared, once the rudder comes out of the water the boat will just round up into the wind.

Fear not the larger boat for your Hobie analysis reasons. Your concerns really don't translate from the catamaran up to the big boat.
 
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Aug 14, 2013
308
MacGregor 26S High Desert
Once you narrow down the boats you are most interested in by reviewing the pictures and specs, go look at as many as possible in person. There is no replacement for spending a little time in the actual boat. For example, while the Mac 25 and 26S look alike on paper, they have a very different feel inside. You may strongly prefer one over the other.
 
May 12, 2010
237
Macgregor 25 Southern Maryland
I want to feel secure he can handle the 26 by himself....
With the lines lead back to the cockpit, you and your husband will find it easy to singlehand a Mac 25 as I do, and I’m no expert sailor. As some others would say a Mac 25 (as well as that great workhorse boat, the Catalina 22) are excellent first boats, reliable, sturdy, safe, and versatile. There is also adequate cabin space in the 25 so it can be a small cruising sailboat.



This link shows one that looks just like my interior with the cushions out.


http://sailingtexas.com/201201/smacgregor25184.html



Macs aren't the fanciest boats around, and in fact are a little spartan, but I think they have a clean, simple look and feel that I appreciate.:)
 

Erik V

.
Mar 14, 2012
104
Macgregor 25 Stony Point NY
A M25 weighs 3000# +/- the 26 foot boats with the ballast drained will weigh a lot less. If your lift is large enough to handle a 25/26' boat go for it. You can set up the boat to control from the cockpit for safety. You will learn to shorten sail when the wind picks up, there are lots of mods you can make to help them to sail up to there potential. You will out grow a smaller boat fairly quickly its always nice to have the added room. Go for it.....
Have fun
 
Mar 20, 2012
3,983
Cal 34-III, MacGregor 25 Salem, Oregon
A M25 weighs 3000# +/- the 26 foot boats with the ballast drained will weigh a lot less. If your lift is large enough to handle a 25/26' boat go for it. You can set up the boat to control from the cockpit for safety. You will learn to shorten sail when the wind picks up, there are lots of mods you can make to help them to sail up to there potential. You will out grow a smaller boat fairly quickly its always nice to have the added room. Go for it.....
Have fun
according to sailboatdata, the displacement weight of a mac 25 is somewhat on the minus side of 3000lbs,... at about 2100 pounds.
but this is without all the personal gear we have stashed in all the cubbys, electronics and anchors... it can quickly add up to 3000lbs...:D
 
Dec 11, 2008
1,338
catalina C27 stillwater
One must compare sailboat weight to the weight of a similar length runabout when debating lifts. My gut says Catalina will roughly equal powerboat of similar size. A Mac should weight less.

This is a from the hip guess; someone may prove me wrong but for purposes of considering a hydro-hoist, I am inclined to say length and length is close to being same as weight and weight.

That make sense?
 
Oct 21, 2010
350
Macgregor 26S, "Myuna" Brisbane, Australia
I love my 26S but one of my favourite boats for long distance travelling would be the Macgregor 19 with a 9.9 Tohatsu. Very light rig to handle on a trailer, plenty of room for 2 people, easy to park, easy to manoeuvre in tight spaces on land. Only about 1,000 built, I think, so the problem would be finding a suitable one.
 
Aug 7, 2011
496
MacGregor 26S Lakeland, FL
Mac 26D and 26S (built 1986-89 and 89-95 respectively) weigh around 1800# empty (no ballast water), then add for engine and gear you leave aboard. They're pretty light for the size.

Mac 25 (built 81?-85ish) hull weighs just a little less than 26's above but then has a permanent weighted swing keel that adds about 600# to the dry weight in lieu of water ballast. So 2100-2300# is realistic estimate. Then add for engine and gear again.

The thing to check on your lift is placement of the boat. If the boat goes in bow-first and is enclosed, and the lift is only made for an 18' boat, the runners and lifting center may be too far forward to lift the boat properly. If the lift is open to the bow of the boat (like a pull-thru campsite) and you can center the boat on the lift, the length of the boat will be less of a factor for the type and size of your lift. Just get it centered properly for the way your boat is loaded and...up!
 
Mar 20, 2012
3,983
Cal 34-III, MacGregor 25 Salem, Oregon
Mac 25 (built 81?-85ish)
the 25 was built from '73 thru '87... at 7000 units, they were one of the most popular boats ever built. then and now, and for good reason. (pre '80 they were called a "venture 25")
when it was time to change to a different model, it was only the cosmetics and options that got changed. the hull design with its sailing ability remained the same. the swing keel was phased out because it was cheaper to produce a water ballasted boat, which was Macgregors invention also...:D
 
Jul 29, 2010
1,392
Macgregor 76 V-25 #928 Lake Mead, Nevada
Venture/Macs come in a bunch of lengths and designs. V-21, V-22, V-222, V-23 cutter, V-24, V-224, V-25, Mac 25, Mac 26S, Mac 26D and so on. There are about 4 gabillion out there so you can probably get a good deal. We've had three of 'em and loved each one. Get the biggest you can tow. If you go smaller you'll wish later you went bigger. As far as single handing in heavy weather I wouldn't do it on any size boat. Too many dangers and mother nature is Bi-polar. The only recommend I would have is no matter what you settle on whether is be a Venture, Mac, Catalina, San Juan, etc is that there is an available source for parts. Mac and Catalina are generally readily available.
 
Dec 11, 2013
10
Hobie 18 Candle Lake
Having some confusion that I know all of you can sort out for me...ok...water ballast is my necessary weight which can be dumped when putting in to go on a boat lift or on the trailer to move it. Water ballast would mean that I have more tender but less weight when towing etc. Is this an issue when winterizing? It is awfully cold here in Saskatchewan! Swing keel is what keeps me on a line when it is dropped down and sailing. I have to have some kind of keel and I don't want a fixed keel. Doesn't every boat have a keel? In some boats without water ballast the swing keel is the weight as well, but that weight stays with the boat making it a lot heavier for trailering and a boat lift.

Have I got this much correct? Thanks in advance for the tutorials everyone!
 
Aug 1, 2011
3,972
Catalina 270 255 Wabamun. Welcome to the marina
I love my 26S but one of my favourite boats for long distance travelling would be the Macgregor 19 with a 9.9 Tohatsu. Very light rig to handle on a trailer, plenty of room for 2 people, easy to park, easy to manoeuvre in tight spaces on land. Only about 1,000 built, I think, so the problem would be finding a suitable one.
Or, find one at all.
 
Mar 20, 2012
3,983
Cal 34-III, MacGregor 25 Salem, Oregon
Having some confusion that I know all of you can sort out for me...ok...water ballast is my necessary weight which can be dumped when putting in to go on a boat lift or on the trailer to move it. Water ballast would mean that I have more tender but less weight when towing etc. Is this an issue when winterizing? It is awfully cold here in Saskatchewan! Swing keel is what keeps me on a line when it is dropped down and sailing. I have to have some kind of keel and I don't want a fixed keel. Doesn't every boat have a keel? In some boats without water ballast the swing keel is the weight as well, but that weight stays with the boat making it a lot heavier for trailering and a boat lift.

Have I got this much correct? Thanks in advance for the tutorials everyone!
as with other water ballasted boats, the 26 models use either a dagger board or centerboard.... it still needs to be withdrawn or extended for your needs on the boatlift...

draining and filling the ballast tank is a slight bit more time than cranking a swingkeel, and extreme freezing temps could be an issue if not tended to properly....

the actual dry/curb weight between the boats (25 vs 26) is about 400lbs, with the 25 being heavier.... about the weight of 2 full grown men... the trailer is another 850lbs, for either boat..
 

Sumner

.
Jan 31, 2009
5,254
Macgregor & Endeavour 26S and 37 Utah's Canyon Country
Having some confusion that I know all of you can sort out for me...ok...water ballast is my necessary weight which can be dumped when putting in to go on a boat lift or on the trailer to move it. Water ballast would mean that I have more tender but less weight when towing etc. Is this an issue when winterizing? It is awfully cold here in Saskatchewan! Swing keel is what keeps me on a line when it is dropped down and sailing. I have to have some kind of keel and I don't want a fixed keel. Doesn't every boat have a keel? In some boats without water ballast the swing keel is the weight as well, but that weight stays with the boat making it a lot heavier for trailering and a boat lift.

Have I got this much correct? Thanks in advance for the tutorials everyone!
Pretty much :). With water ballast you could drain it as the lift goes up. The lift would be lifting the weight though but if it can handle it then that is an option. I would have a lift that is designed with the bunks pretty similar to how they are on the trailer, but that should be easy. I would not leave the water in on the lift myself but while lifting it is not a problem. We put the boat on the trailer, open the valve and let it drain going up the ramp and in the parking lot.

The other option would be to 'blow' the water out before raising the boat on the lift if you wanted to get rid of the weight of the ballast water, which is about 1200 lbs.. Blowing it out is not difficult and discussed in the other current thread...

http://forums.macgregor.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=158336

...and other threads.

Either way draining the water is easy and I see no issue with freezing as the water is gone. A number of these boats are in Canada and even where we are the temps go below zero F.

We have to trailer every where and getting rid of the ballast is a big plus as we are not towing as much weight. If you decide in the future to pull the boat to other lakes or the ocean the reduced weight is nice. Don't forget all of the boat weights are empty. You add the outboard, batteries and gear and everything else and the weight can really start to climb. Then the 1800# dry weight 26 is nice.

One other nice thing is the centerboards on the 26S and 26D are not weighted like the other swing keels that weigh hundreds of pounds. If you want to raise the centerboard say to go on your lift it is an easy just pull it up by hand in a few seconds. On the other boats you need to use the hand winch to have the mechanical advantage. On another note if you do decide on the 25 or any of the other boats with a heavy keel please be sure and carefully inspect the keel bolt. There have been a few that bought a new boat and the bolt broke and they lost their keel to the bottom and if that happens you are not going to find another one easily.

If your lake is deep and shallows are not a real problem you might also look at the 26D with the dagger board. It is less forgiving if you hit something but that might not be a problem for where you plan on sailing. We wanted the S for the swing centerboard as we go to new places. Hit the bottom with it in Idaho, Canada, Utah and Florida and it was no problem at all. It swung out of the way. Even though the smaller Macs have swing keels they do recommend pinning them in the down position just in case you have the remote possibility of a knock down so that the keel stays in position. A number of owners don't lock theirs so another personal decision. If it is locked down and you hit something under water there is the possibility of damage to the keel trunk. There again if you sail the same waters this is probably not a problem.

One item often overlooked when comparing the boats is that......



... the 26S and D have enormous rear berths, as large as a queen mattress. Most owners sleep there. We enlarged the V-berth ourselves and use the aft berth area for storage. Without all of that storage area we could not stay on the water for the time periods we do. These two boats also have a very large...



...lazarette that will hold a tremendous amount of gear. We have installed a 19 gallon tank in ours (not needed by 95% of owners) and still have room for the planks for the cockpit bed, fenders, life jackets, lines, oil, fenders and more. Without the lazarette this would all have to be down in the main cabin.

Do you know which model of Mac 26 you sailed on?

Sum

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Our Endeavour 37

Our MacGregor 26-S Pages

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links
 
Sep 30, 2012
224
macgregor 26s 1993 cranbrook bc
Having some confusion that I know all of you can sort out for me...ok...water ballast is my necessary weight which can be dumped when putting in to go on a boat lift or on the trailer to move it. Water ballast would mean that I have more tender but less weight when towing etc. Is this an issue when winterizing? It is awfully cold here in Saskatchewan! Swing keel is what keeps me on a line when it is dropped down and sailing. I have to have some kind of keel and I don't want a fixed keel. Doesn't every boat have a keel? In some boats without water ballast the swing keel is the weight as well, but that weight stays with the boat making it a lot heavier for trailering and a boat lift.

Have I got this much correct? Thanks in advance for the tutorials everyone!
Im sure someone will explain it better but you are pretty much right on with your idea. The reason the water ballast boats are tender because the water ballast is pretty much neutral when it is in the water. It does really provide mass until you start taking it out of the water. Think about filling up bucket in a lake. I big hunk of metal is heavy all the time. It is a trade off, but for moving the boat around on land it sure is nice to be able to dump the weight. The lower the weight is the more effective it is a counterbalance. If the boat has a swing keel with weight it has to be cranked with a winch as opposed to just being pulled up by hand. I'm sure some little sailboats may not have a keel but a would think they would have more of a tendency to slip sideways through the water as opposed to going forward. Having a light swing keel sure is nice you can pretty much go anywhere and when you screw up and go where you shouldn't it just folds nicely out of the way instead of maybe yanking the bottom of the boat off or lurching to a stop. I'll put up with a bit of lean and its kind of fun albeit not as efficient.

As I side note. Last year, first time of the season out, windy day, was very eager to get out, I forgot to fill up the water ballast. Big gust of wind came and things got very exciting very quickly but the boat still didn't go over, but it must have looked interesting from shore and my dog was not impressed. Kind of an extreme test but when you think about it pretty reassuring the boat is pretty stable.....and I am a bit lucky.

I would have to think you the only time you have to worry about the ballast freezing would be if you left it full and the water didn't have any place to expand. Im sure after you drain the ballast a little bit is left in there but not enough to be concerned about. I just leave the bottom drain open and the top inspection plug open to let some air flow take care of the rest. I keep mine in the garage but when we hit below minus 30 the gargage is about minus 5. I haven't had any issues.

I would love to have my boat on a lift if it fit. My plan for next year is to talk to some of the people around the lake and see if I could pay them to store my boat on there property so don't have to take the mast down every time I go out. Then I could just launch my boat from the trailer, go sailing for a few hours then put it back. Its just not worth the set up and take down time to go for a few hours in the evening by myself. No real mooring to speak of and my boat just has ablative paint on it without a water barrier coat. Im not sure how to get it off so I just don't want to leave the boat in the water.
 

walt

.
Jun 1, 2007
3,541
Macgregor 26S Hobie TI Ridgway Colorado
. It does really provide mass until you start taking it out of the water.
I don’t believe this is true despite some convincing analogies. You get a righting moment (and stability) because you are lifting some weight against a center of buoyancy. When the boat is just sitting in the water, no pressure on the sail, the center of gravity is lined up with the center of buoyancy - so there is no "moment arm".

However, as you start to heel the boat, the center of buoyancy will rapidly move to the downwind side of the boat. As the center of buoyancy moves outward, there rapidly becomes a moment arm between the ballast of the boat (which is being lifted against gravity) and the center of buoyancy. It is this moment arm that is created by the center of buoyancy moving to the windward side of the boat that stiffens up the heeling - not that the water ballast goes above the outside water level. Simply as soon as physics of the boat start to lift the mass of the ballast, it stiffens up. You always hear that they are initally tender but stiffen up quickly - but its because the center of bouyancy quickly moves away from the boats center as it heels.

Interesting that with a water ballast boat, it really does a very good job of lifting the high ballast at low heel angles and this is another reason that these boats sail a little faster when kept relitively flat.

But when you get to high heel angles with the water ballast boat, that high ballast gets more over the center of buoyancy and is moving more horizontal than vertical (you only get a force when moving againts gravity) so the righting moment stays relatively low. But a deep ballast boat will have huge righting moment at higher angles of heel. In high winds, that very stiff righting moment of the deep ballast makes them easier to sail. You have to work harder to sail the shallow ballast boat in higher winds but that is the tradeoff you make for all the other advantages of the water ballast. High freeboard also helps maintian "sellf rigthing" for a high ballast boat so these boats all have somewhat high freeboard.

Freezing.. no problem, just drain the boat after you take it out of the water. I kept my 26S at 8600 feet in Colorado over a few winters where it gets down to maybe -35F, never any issue..

The one bad thing about water ballast is if you live in an area where they are very anal about zebra mussel inspections. Water ballast is a great way to spread these so it makes it harder to stay very mobile with the boat.

If you trailer much, the lower weight of the boat makes a significant difference in fuel costs. 15% lower mpg of already poor mpg can be a significant cost savings.

Super easy to launch and retreive (true about all the Macs or Ventures), easy to beach and if you ever have to do any maintinence on the centerboard (or whatever its called;)), its really nice that it only weighs about 50 pounds.