Mooring lines to permanent buoy setup

[Hunter216]

So I had my grandson sketch my setup

The anchor weight is likely sufficient to hold the boat and NOT drag but I had pins installed to make sure. My overbuild with redundancy way of going about things

I’m having some trouble understanding what some of your components are... nylon pennant attached to a chain?

 

[ricksoth]

Hey SailFanatic (Capt. Larry) and any others that want to chime in --

I am going to go with two of the Yale Maxi Moor pendants, setup where one is slack by a few inches to be the backup in case the primary fails. I emailed Yale about their 1/2" vs. 5/8" versions, and they indicated either would work for my boat so long as I used two as planned.

The issue is that the Cal bow cleats don't have a lot of space between the uprights of the cleat. If I go with 1/2" I can go through the middle and around the ears which seems more "secure" to me. The 5/8" will not fit through the middle, so that would be a twice around the ears. I have photos of both at the marina for testing.

Is there any opinion of the security of the line to the cleats about twice around or through the middle and over the ears?

The backing plates for the cleats seem stout enough,
x

I may add some type of cross-brace inside the chain locker to "tie" the two backing plates together and then re-attach the anchor rode "bitter ends" to help spread the load of mooring tension loads.

I plan on storing the anchor inside the boat before moving to the mooring in April or May.

All thoughts and comments welcome. Thanks for reading this new post.

...
But skip the nylon line and use a pair of Yale mooring pennants, max size that fits your cleats

Yale Cordage Double Braid Maxi-Moor II Mooring Pendant

Features: Yale's Maxi-Moor II™ Mooring pendant minimizes potential detachment loss by maximizing proven connection gain Provides added wear protection with new PET fiber for up to double the abrasion resistance Standard yellow MaxiJ

www.defender.com

Also do not leave the anchor in the roller while on the mooring..

Read in detail to see why the advice above

Mooring Preparation & Precautions by Compass Marine How To

pbase.com

 

[Sailfanatic]

Either should be fine, I'd probably do the 1/2". If you want the 5/8" make sure the 16' length is not an issue relative to your mooring swinging room. Also be sure to secure the first eight feet of the pendants together to eliminate the risk they can wrap around the mooring ball.

 

[dLj]

I may add some type of cross-brace inside the chain locker to "tie" the two backing plates together and then re-attach the anchor rode "bitter ends" to help spread the load of mooring tension loads.

All thoughts and comments welcome. Thanks for reading this new post.

Over-designing is not always the best answer. You should always look at what happens if the system breaks. There is no system that cannot break. Additionally, the way a design places stress on the system, weakening different parts of the system should be taken into account. This part I can't really comment on as I'd need a whole lot more info...

The whole idea of over-designing is based on the false idea that "I'm going to built it so it never breaks". But that is truly a false premise as everything can break. A good design takes into account what happens if/when it breaks. Your current design would rip out a cleat likely taking with it the region of the backing plate. Tie the whole thing together and if it breaks, you rip off the whole front of your bow.

I personally would prefer the current design. But it's your boat and your choice.

You did ask for thoughts and comments...

dj

 

[ricksoth]

Over-designing is not always the best answer. You should always look at what happens if the system breaks. There is no system that cannot break. Additionally, the way a design places stress on the system, weakening different parts of the system should be taken into account. This part I can't really comment on as I'd need a whole lot more info...

The whole idea of over-designing is based on the false idea that "I'm going to built it so it never breaks". But that is truly a false premise as everything can break. A good design takes into account what happens if/when it breaks. Your current design would rip out a cleat likely taking with it the region of the backing plate. Tie the whole thing together and if it breaks, you rip off the whole front of your bow.

I personally would prefer the current design. But it's your boat and your choice.

You did ask for thoughts and comments...

dj

Good point about ripping off the whole bow. Thanks for your input.

 

[Captain Larry-DH]

Hey SailFanatic (Capt. Larry) and any others that want to chime in --

I am going to go with two of the Yale Maxi Moor pendants, setup where one is slack by a few inches to be the backup in case the primary fails. I emailed Yale about their 1/2" vs. 5/8" versions, and they indicated either would work for my boat so long as I used two as planned.

The issue is that the Cal bow cleats don't have a lot of space between the uprights of the cleat. If I go with 1/2" I can go through the middle and around the ears which seems more "secure" to me. The 5/8" will not fit through the middle, so that would be a twice around the ears. I have photos of both at the marina for testing.

View attachment 189779


View attachment 189778

Is there any opinion of the security of the line to the cleats about twice around or through the middle and over the ears?

The backing plates for the cleats seem stout enough,
xView attachment 189777


I may add some type of cross-brace inside the chain locker to "tie" the two backing plates together and then re-attach the anchor rode "bitter ends" to help spread the load of mooring tension loads.

I plan on storing the anchor inside the boat before moving to the mooring in April or May.

All thoughts and comments welcome. Thanks for reading this new post.

I recommend the 3/4”. The 1/2” would provide more than enough strength, but the thicker pennant will allow for more chafe before reaching critical weakness.
As for securing the eye, either method is adequate. If you want to be sure those lines won’t pick themselves up off the cleat you can “mouse” them with another line, e.g. use a remnant (6-10 feet) of 1/2” line wrapped on top of the cleated eye.
The other thing I recommend is to use split closed-cell pipe insulation on the pennants so they float (use electrical tape or tie wraps to secure it). Floating lines won’t wrap the mooring chain when slack, and that will prevent chafe from the chain.

 

[dLj]

The other thing I recommend is to use split closed-cell pipe insulation on the pennants so they float (use electrical tape or tie wraps to secure it). Floating lines won’t wrap the mooring chain when slack, and that will prevent chafe from the chain.

I found a really inexpensive alternative to the pipe insulation are the "noodle floaties" used for kids in swimming pools. You can often find them in the dollar store or other places where they are really cheap. Then just split them with a razor or sharp knife. I've just used nylon tie wraps, never tried electrical tape.

dj

 

[Captain Larry-DH]

@ricksoth I also don’t recommend having one slightly longer, as your boat will tend to “hunt” or veer back and forth on the mooring. As a result, usually only one side or the other would be under tension. If one is longer, the boat will veer even more extremely than if they are equal.

 

[Sailavie1]

One thing to consider when installing a mooring in salt water is corrosion on the chain. I owned a mooring in Boston Harbor for a few years, and followed the advice of fellow yacht club members and used an extra long chain from the mooring to the buoy. The top two or three feet of the chain would corrode quickly, and could be eliminated from the mooring at the beginning of each season.

My experience in fresh water is the opposite. The part of the chain that lays on the bottom gets more corrosion than the top does suspended in the water. This then requires replacement of the full length of chain (cheap insurance in my mind).

 

[Sailfanatic]

...
The other thing I recommend is to use split closed-cell pipe insulation on the pennants so they float (use electrical tape or tie wraps to secure it). Floating lines won’t wrap the mooring chain when slack, and that will prevent chafe from the chain.

I would not want my mooring lines to float, as this will stage the opportunity for some passing boater will run over them and they'll end up wrapped on a prop. With any floats, the weight of the pendants pulls the pickup stick in next to the mooring ball so it is unlikely a passing boat can get between the pickup float and ball.

 

[dLj]

I would not want my mooring lines to float, as this will stage the opportunity for some passing boater will run over them and they'll end up wrapped on a prop. With any floats, the weight of the pendants pulls the pickup stick in next to the mooring ball so it is unlikely a passing boat can get between the pickup float and ball.

That's what I used to think also. But where I'm currently moored, that is how they run all the mooring balls. It actually works very well and when you are running the floating lines with colored floats, they are very visible, day and night, and nobody runs over them.

dj

 

[Captain Larry-DH]

I would not want my mooring lines to float, as this will stage the opportunity for some passing boater will run over them and they'll end up wrapped on a prop. With any floats, the weight of the pendants pulls the pickup stick in next to the mooring ball so it is unlikely a passing boat can get between the pickup float and ball.

You do it your way.
No passing boat is going to get between, unless they aren’t seeing the mooring at all. At least 30 years experience on moorings.

 

[ricksoth]

My experience in fresh water is the opposite. The part of the chain that lays on the bottom gets more corrosion than the top does suspended in the water. This then requires replacement of the full length of chain (cheap insurance in my mind).

Our experience is that the bottom chain has hardly any wear compared to the upper portions where the links are always moving. We decided to hire a pro and have a Helical screw system put in along the lines of what is recommended by our state.

Getting rid of the all chain approach and having just 8 feet or so at the buoy end will make summer inspections easier at minus tides when the mid-line float will be at the surface. This is an expensive approach but after 20+ years of "dicking around with home-grown solutions" I was ready for a professional install.

Time will tell on how this system holds up. We opted for the mid-sized screw system good for a 36' boat - so our 27' will hopefully be solidly in one spot if we can keep the pendants from chafing.

Based on info from this site: Mooring Pendants Thoughts & Musings - Marine How To I'm going to start with the uneven length pendants and stow the Bruce below deck, plus use a FG whip pickup float to to make grabbing the pendants during a sailing approach easier.

 

[shemandr]

I would not want my mooring lines to float, as this will stage the opportunity for some passing boater will run over them and they'll end up wrapped on a prop. With any floats, the weight of the pendants pulls the pickup stick in next to the mooring ball so it is unlikely a passing boat can get between the pickup float and ball.

We used to drop them to the bottom to reduce marine growth on them which would make a mess on the foredeck. Even in as little as 8’ it was reasonably effective.