our boat is kept in a slip and has a concrete dock forward with an eye ring on either side and two pilings aft with an eye ring on top of each with which to secure our o'day 222. our boat has cleats at the bow on either side, has cleats on the top of the cabin house on either side, just slightly forward of the cabin doorway opening and cleats on either side of the cockpit, just forward of the transom. looking over the many boats in the marina and seeing dozens of different ways to secure a boat has left us baffled as to the safest way to accomplish this. basically our questions are: 1. best type of line to use 2. how many to use 3. best points of attachment 4. best knots to secure on pilings 5. best knots to secure to boat cleats. thanks for all past advice which has helped us tremendously, nice to feel the support this site lends to those of us just starting out!
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bill walton
best way??
Don't know if there is a best. You don't indicate how far the stern pilings are from your stern cleats. I have a similar arrangement and if you're going to be occupying the slip for a while I'd do the following. Use 3 strand appropriately sized for your boat plus one size. Make an eye splice around a steel thimble in the ends of at least 6 sections of appropriate length: 2 for the bow 2 for the stern sized to run from the right piling to the left stern cleat and from the left piling to the right stern cleat 1 for a forward spring running from one of the midship cleats to one of the forward eyes 1 for a rear spring running from one of the midship cleats to one of the piling eyes Using large shackles fasten the eyes you splices to the appropriate dock eye. You can use a short piece of chain through the dock eyes if necessary. Once you have the lengths all set you could splice large eyes in the boat ends of your lines to make it quick and easy to hook up when you come end at the end of a day. Use appropriate anto-abrasion measures where the lines cross your gunwhales. I've found this arrangement works well for me even through several storms with minimal abrasion.
Don't know if there is a best. You don't indicate how far the stern pilings are from your stern cleats. I have a similar arrangement and if you're going to be occupying the slip for a while I'd do the following. Use 3 strand appropriately sized for your boat plus one size. Make an eye splice around a steel thimble in the ends of at least 6 sections of appropriate length: 2 for the bow 2 for the stern sized to run from the right piling to the left stern cleat and from the left piling to the right stern cleat 1 for a forward spring running from one of the midship cleats to one of the forward eyes 1 for a rear spring running from one of the midship cleats to one of the piling eyes Using large shackles fasten the eyes you splices to the appropriate dock eye. You can use a short piece of chain through the dock eyes if necessary. Once you have the lengths all set you could splice large eyes in the boat ends of your lines to make it quick and easy to hook up when you come end at the end of a day. Use appropriate anto-abrasion measures where the lines cross your gunwhales. I've found this arrangement works well for me even through several storms with minimal abrasion.
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Gene
Agree
I agree with what Bill Walton said in his response. If you dont use eye splices at the cleats and feel you want to just cleat the lines each time you come in, put some black tape or a permanent pen mark on the line where it meets the cleat then you will typically tie it up the same way each time. This is helpful when you have new crew...just tell them to tie off the dock line around the cleat where the black mark is! I have a PVC pipe set up at the bow to hang the bow lines on when leaving the dock , then you can reach them with a boat hook upon docking.
I agree with what Bill Walton said in his response. If you dont use eye splices at the cleats and feel you want to just cleat the lines each time you come in, put some black tape or a permanent pen mark on the line where it meets the cleat then you will typically tie it up the same way each time. This is helpful when you have new crew...just tell them to tie off the dock line around the cleat where the black mark is! I have a PVC pipe set up at the bow to hang the bow lines on when leaving the dock , then you can reach them with a boat hook upon docking.
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Claude L.-Auger
Nice, Easy and safe.
And don't forget to figure out length of your permanent lines taking Hi and Lo tide in consideration.
And don't forget to figure out length of your permanent lines taking Hi and Lo tide in consideration.
J
JOHN
Springlines help when docking
In addition to the great information offered by others, consider this for springlines. You really don't want your boat to hit that concrete dock in front of your bow. I like to keep forward springlines attached to the pilings at the back of the well. When we are docking, they are the first lines I attach. This keeps the boat from hitting the dock (or sea wall) at the front of the well, while I am running around the boat trying to attach all the others. I don't need rear springlines, because the two lines running from the bow to the dock serve the same purpose (for my boat, but maybe not yours). Also, if you know there is a nasty storm coming, don't be afraid to rig a couple of extra lines. We had a 3/4 inch line snap like a rubberband last spring when a tornado blew overhead.
In addition to the great information offered by others, consider this for springlines. You really don't want your boat to hit that concrete dock in front of your bow. I like to keep forward springlines attached to the pilings at the back of the well. When we are docking, they are the first lines I attach. This keeps the boat from hitting the dock (or sea wall) at the front of the well, while I am running around the boat trying to attach all the others. I don't need rear springlines, because the two lines running from the bow to the dock serve the same purpose (for my boat, but maybe not yours). Also, if you know there is a nasty storm coming, don't be afraid to rig a couple of extra lines. We had a 3/4 inch line snap like a rubberband last spring when a tornado blew overhead.
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Tom Ehmke
A Plug for Chapman's
As I was following your thread, I recalled the great pix shown in Chapman Piloting. There is a section called Dock Lines And Their Uses which shows all kinds of combinations. Another plug (this one for the USPS, I'm shameless). The Safe Boating class is a super starting place for anyone just getting started on the water. They offer many advanced courses for sailors AND the other guys. One other thing...I assume that you use fenders to protect the boat in the slip or have some way of preventing the dock or piling from grinding the rub rail away.
As I was following your thread, I recalled the great pix shown in Chapman Piloting. There is a section called Dock Lines And Their Uses which shows all kinds of combinations. Another plug (this one for the USPS, I'm shameless). The Safe Boating class is a super starting place for anyone just getting started on the water. They offer many advanced courses for sailors AND the other guys. One other thing...I assume that you use fenders to protect the boat in the slip or have some way of preventing the dock or piling from grinding the rub rail away.
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Brian Pickton
Dock lines
Nov.26,2000 Dear John and Andrea, There is a right and a wrong way to moor a boat, but what it is varies depending on the dock situation, for example a med moor is different from a side tie, etc. What all mooring situations have in common is the need to secure the boat to prevent it from damaging itself against docks and pilings while still giving the boat enough freedom of movement to allow for tide variation and the wakes of passing vessels. It is a common error to tie boats too tightly to docks. Now with respect to your specific questions, Mister Walton makes some good suggestions for a permanent mooring situation that you might wish to consider. You will however have to carry extra dock lines if you are going to dock else where and leave your shackled lines behind. To answer your specific questions: 1) Best type of line to use: Laid nylon, or three braid as it is sometimes called. Nylon has an inherent elasticity which helps to absorb shocks. Some line will stretch up to 18 % of its’ unloaded length. This can be enhanced by placing the rubber “shock absorbers” available at most handleries on your line. This stretching ability is the most important characteristic for dock lines. Some people (me included) use old halyards for some of their dock lines. This is bad practice. Halyards are generally low stretch material and splicing an eye in old braided line is a real chore. I tried to mitigate the absence of stretch with shock absorbers and use a mix of braided and laid lines. A common error is to use lines that are too large for the boat. With a nylon line the larger it is the more load it needs to stretch, and consequently the more load is delivered to your cleats. This is the principle reason lines snap: they have insufficient elasticity to handle shock loads. Your boat is an O’Day 222 which is fairly light and does not have a large surface area for wind resistance. I would suggest a 3/8 inch diameter line is is more than adequate. You might want to consider a 5/16 inch diameter line. Check working load ratingss before deciding. Best line manufacturer? I prefer New England Ropes products when I can get them. 2) How many to use? In your situation 8. Two at the bow to the eyes, two at the stern to the eyes and four spring lines. Keep the bow and stern lines fairly slack to allow for plenty of motion, but short enough to prevent the boat from swinging into the pilings. The spring lines should be adjusted for fore and aft movement. You may view having spring lines leading from the stern forward as superfluous, but the better practice is to use them. Dock lines never did any good sitting in the locker. 3) Best point of attachment? I disagree (mildly) with Mr. Walton on using the center cleats for the spring lines. A lot of people do this and although I would be reluctant to describe the practice as “wrong” it is not the best choice where there is tidal change.(On a lake where water level was reasonably constant, it wouldn’t matter.) The better practice is to run spring lines from the quarters fore and aft, reserving the center cleats for breast lines. The reason this practice is preferred is because the longer spring lines allow for a greater variation in the swing of the tide. This means that the lines “shorten “ less from high to low tide (the degree of arc the lines swing through is smaller) reducing the possibility of the spring lines over tightening and possibly damaging cleats or parting. Furthermore with respect to the best point of attachment, do you have a stout anchor cleat forward? Usually anchor cleats are larger, stronger, and more sturdily reinforced then dock line cleats. We use our anchor cleat as the primary attachment point on The Legend for that reason. 4) The best knot to secure the lines to the eye on the pilings is a round turn and two half hitches. I know, I know, the bowline is the King of Knots, but the round turn and two half hitches is the Prince of Knots, Heir Apparent and Pretender to the Crown. There are two reasons to choose this knot for this application over the bowline: (1)The round turn takes the stress of the line around the ring and distributes it evenly through the circumference of the turn, while the bowline will rub and consequently chafe (No doubt the genesis of Mr. Waltons suggestion of splicing an eye and using a shackle to secure it. It is a good suggestion if you plan to leave the lines attached when you leave the dock. ) I’ve never known a round turn and two half hitches to come untied but I know of numerous examples of bowlines failing. Obviously the bowlines were not properly snugged up. A simple tug on the bitter end of the line snugs a half hitch, but a bowline needs each leg of the knot tightened to hold. I’ve never seen a couple of half hitches that wouldn’t hold because the stress of the knot is taken up by the round turn, not the eye of the loop as occurs with the bowline. It is the stress on the legs of the loop that is the improperly tightened bowline’s “undoing”, so to speak. Furthermore because the load is distributed through the round turn and not on the half hitches the knot remains easy to untie. The bowline’s claim to fame as a knot to form a temporary loop is it’s ability to be untied, but even that can require the use of a tool to undo the knot where it has been under heavy loads. I’ve never had to use a tool to free a round turn and two half hitches. 5) Best knot to secure to the boat’s cleats? That depends largely on how many lines you are going to have on each cleat. With the arrangement I have suggested you are going to have two lines per cleat. In this situation the best knot isn’t a knot, but an eye spliced into the line. “ A line without an eye in it is useless,” says my friend and former tug boat skipper, Captain Garry Strand. The eye should be made small enough that it can only be fitted over the cleat one horn at a time. If your cleats are two small to take two lines with eyes spliced in them then they need to be replaced with something larger that will. Other than an eye there are two knots to use on a cleat, either the traditional cleat hitch or two half hitches, one taken on each horn. Either practice is acceptable provided the line is lead around two horns before securing. A common mistake with the cleat hitch is to pile up figure of eight loops before tieing in the finishing hitch. This is a mistake. The extra line piled up on cleat makes it easier for the line to loosen. Properly tied the cleat hitch tightens down on itself under load. That’s probably more than you ever wanted to know about dock lines, isn’t it? Brian Pickton@BeneteauOwners.net Aboard the Legend, Rodney Bay, St. Lucia
Nov.26,2000 Dear John and Andrea, There is a right and a wrong way to moor a boat, but what it is varies depending on the dock situation, for example a med moor is different from a side tie, etc. What all mooring situations have in common is the need to secure the boat to prevent it from damaging itself against docks and pilings while still giving the boat enough freedom of movement to allow for tide variation and the wakes of passing vessels. It is a common error to tie boats too tightly to docks. Now with respect to your specific questions, Mister Walton makes some good suggestions for a permanent mooring situation that you might wish to consider. You will however have to carry extra dock lines if you are going to dock else where and leave your shackled lines behind. To answer your specific questions: 1) Best type of line to use: Laid nylon, or three braid as it is sometimes called. Nylon has an inherent elasticity which helps to absorb shocks. Some line will stretch up to 18 % of its’ unloaded length. This can be enhanced by placing the rubber “shock absorbers” available at most handleries on your line. This stretching ability is the most important characteristic for dock lines. Some people (me included) use old halyards for some of their dock lines. This is bad practice. Halyards are generally low stretch material and splicing an eye in old braided line is a real chore. I tried to mitigate the absence of stretch with shock absorbers and use a mix of braided and laid lines. A common error is to use lines that are too large for the boat. With a nylon line the larger it is the more load it needs to stretch, and consequently the more load is delivered to your cleats. This is the principle reason lines snap: they have insufficient elasticity to handle shock loads. Your boat is an O’Day 222 which is fairly light and does not have a large surface area for wind resistance. I would suggest a 3/8 inch diameter line is is more than adequate. You might want to consider a 5/16 inch diameter line. Check working load ratingss before deciding. Best line manufacturer? I prefer New England Ropes products when I can get them. 2) How many to use? In your situation 8. Two at the bow to the eyes, two at the stern to the eyes and four spring lines. Keep the bow and stern lines fairly slack to allow for plenty of motion, but short enough to prevent the boat from swinging into the pilings. The spring lines should be adjusted for fore and aft movement. You may view having spring lines leading from the stern forward as superfluous, but the better practice is to use them. Dock lines never did any good sitting in the locker. 3) Best point of attachment? I disagree (mildly) with Mr. Walton on using the center cleats for the spring lines. A lot of people do this and although I would be reluctant to describe the practice as “wrong” it is not the best choice where there is tidal change.(On a lake where water level was reasonably constant, it wouldn’t matter.) The better practice is to run spring lines from the quarters fore and aft, reserving the center cleats for breast lines. The reason this practice is preferred is because the longer spring lines allow for a greater variation in the swing of the tide. This means that the lines “shorten “ less from high to low tide (the degree of arc the lines swing through is smaller) reducing the possibility of the spring lines over tightening and possibly damaging cleats or parting. Furthermore with respect to the best point of attachment, do you have a stout anchor cleat forward? Usually anchor cleats are larger, stronger, and more sturdily reinforced then dock line cleats. We use our anchor cleat as the primary attachment point on The Legend for that reason. 4) The best knot to secure the lines to the eye on the pilings is a round turn and two half hitches. I know, I know, the bowline is the King of Knots, but the round turn and two half hitches is the Prince of Knots, Heir Apparent and Pretender to the Crown. There are two reasons to choose this knot for this application over the bowline: (1)The round turn takes the stress of the line around the ring and distributes it evenly through the circumference of the turn, while the bowline will rub and consequently chafe (No doubt the genesis of Mr. Waltons suggestion of splicing an eye and using a shackle to secure it. It is a good suggestion if you plan to leave the lines attached when you leave the dock. ) I’ve never known a round turn and two half hitches to come untied but I know of numerous examples of bowlines failing. Obviously the bowlines were not properly snugged up. A simple tug on the bitter end of the line snugs a half hitch, but a bowline needs each leg of the knot tightened to hold. I’ve never seen a couple of half hitches that wouldn’t hold because the stress of the knot is taken up by the round turn, not the eye of the loop as occurs with the bowline. It is the stress on the legs of the loop that is the improperly tightened bowline’s “undoing”, so to speak. Furthermore because the load is distributed through the round turn and not on the half hitches the knot remains easy to untie. The bowline’s claim to fame as a knot to form a temporary loop is it’s ability to be untied, but even that can require the use of a tool to undo the knot where it has been under heavy loads. I’ve never had to use a tool to free a round turn and two half hitches. 5) Best knot to secure to the boat’s cleats? That depends largely on how many lines you are going to have on each cleat. With the arrangement I have suggested you are going to have two lines per cleat. In this situation the best knot isn’t a knot, but an eye spliced into the line. “ A line without an eye in it is useless,” says my friend and former tug boat skipper, Captain Garry Strand. The eye should be made small enough that it can only be fitted over the cleat one horn at a time. If your cleats are two small to take two lines with eyes spliced in them then they need to be replaced with something larger that will. Other than an eye there are two knots to use on a cleat, either the traditional cleat hitch or two half hitches, one taken on each horn. Either practice is acceptable provided the line is lead around two horns before securing. A common mistake with the cleat hitch is to pile up figure of eight loops before tieing in the finishing hitch. This is a mistake. The extra line piled up on cleat makes it easier for the line to loosen. Properly tied the cleat hitch tightens down on itself under load. That’s probably more than you ever wanted to know about dock lines, isn’t it? Brian Pickton@BeneteauOwners.net Aboard the Legend, Rodney Bay, St. Lucia
T
Tom Ehmke
J
John & Andrea
thank you so very much for the replies!!
to all of you who responded to our question a very big thank you, the information is invaluable. it has answered ALL of our questions and concerns and we feel armed with the correct information now as we make our way to the marine supply store, yet again. a little diligence certainly pays off where this is concerned. brian hit the nail on the head when he spoke about the changing tides here, they can vary greatly, sometimes it is almost impossible to jump down onto the deck from the pier, even harder if your trying to jump back up onto the pier at the low tide on certain days we have what they call 'spring tides'. his reply about using different knots also struck a chord because a bowline IS almost impossible to untie without the use of a tool when it has a heavy load on it. i found that out one day when we had an unusually low 'spring tide' and the boat had gone almost a foot lower than usual and was putting quite a strain on the lines and now i only use the round turn with two half hitches as it does untie very easily and on the cleats use the cleat hitch as it also unties very easily when under strain. i had used the sliced loops at first but found it impossible to remove under strain. that was very scary and with the wide range of tides and not knowing just how high or low they will become the advice was right on the nose! there were so many great ideas, just a wealth of information, can't thank you enough! wishing you many days of fine sailing!
to all of you who responded to our question a very big thank you, the information is invaluable. it has answered ALL of our questions and concerns and we feel armed with the correct information now as we make our way to the marine supply store, yet again. a little diligence certainly pays off where this is concerned. brian hit the nail on the head when he spoke about the changing tides here, they can vary greatly, sometimes it is almost impossible to jump down onto the deck from the pier, even harder if your trying to jump back up onto the pier at the low tide on certain days we have what they call 'spring tides'. his reply about using different knots also struck a chord because a bowline IS almost impossible to untie without the use of a tool when it has a heavy load on it. i found that out one day when we had an unusually low 'spring tide' and the boat had gone almost a foot lower than usual and was putting quite a strain on the lines and now i only use the round turn with two half hitches as it does untie very easily and on the cleats use the cleat hitch as it also unties very easily when under strain. i had used the sliced loops at first but found it impossible to remove under strain. that was very scary and with the wide range of tides and not knowing just how high or low they will become the advice was right on the nose! there were so many great ideas, just a wealth of information, can't thank you enough! wishing you many days of fine sailing!
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