The tray that held the canon balls in the old sailing ships was called a monkey. There are knots with the word monkey in them, any one know how the word monkey got hooked up with sailing? Thanks Jim Bessinger
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joe phibbs
yep, eureka
yep, eureka, which is greek for 'i have found it'. check out ask jeeves: monkey nautical etymology or monkey nautical. icould not get the whole link to show up here. joe
yep, eureka, which is greek for 'i have found it'. check out ask jeeves: monkey nautical etymology or monkey nautical. icould not get the whole link to show up here. joe
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John Dawson
"Generally, any small or light gear or structure, such as a monkey chain, monkey bridge, gaff, or rail. It appears to have been a XIX century slang term for anything diminutive." Origins of Sea Terms, John G Rogers. "Shot-garland: a wooden rack running along the ship's side from one gunport to another and holding the Round Shot for the GREAT GUNS." A Sea of Words, Dean King. Several references claim there is no evidence of this term or item in the British Navy, and no use of the term brass monkey until 1857. Monkey was also a cabin boy, hence powder monkey came from the boy who carried powder. There seems to be several scientific tests to see if the brass ring could contract enough to squeeze cannonball out with negative results.
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Gord May
I thought
It was a film of ice (from condensed water vapour) that caused the balls to slide off the monkey? Regards, Gord
It was a film of ice (from condensed water vapour) that caused the balls to slide off the monkey? Regards, Gord
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Bayard Gross
Freezing brass monkeys
When temperatures are very cold, the brass on a monkey that holds connon balls and the iron cannon balls themselves contract sufficiently to where the connon balls roll or fall off the monkey. Or as one would say "It is cold enough to freeze the (cannon) balls off a brass monkey".
When temperatures are very cold, the brass on a monkey that holds connon balls and the iron cannon balls themselves contract sufficiently to where the connon balls roll or fall off the monkey. Or as one would say "It is cold enough to freeze the (cannon) balls off a brass monkey".
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John Dawson
apparently not
Several people have researched this (one noted in my post) and find no historical or scientific validity to this as far as I can find. It seems to be a very widespread, popular, and much repeated myth. Any real substantiation would be appreciated.
Several people have researched this (one noted in my post) and find no historical or scientific validity to this as far as I can find. It seems to be a very widespread, popular, and much repeated myth. Any real substantiation would be appreciated.
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Pete
From the Naval Historical Center
Here is the response from the Naval Historical Center: The word "monkey" is of uncertain origin; its first known usage was in 1498 when it was used in the literary work Reynard the Fox as the name of the son of Martin the Ape. For more, see link below.
Here is the response from the Naval Historical Center: The word "monkey" is of uncertain origin; its first known usage was in 1498 when it was used in the literary work Reynard the Fox as the name of the son of Martin the Ape. For more, see link below.
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John Dawson
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Clyde
Slang term for smaller than normal
The term is used to describe items that are smaller than normal size or demure. As the previous posts have found, the term was based on a 1498 story about Martin the Ape and his son. Back then the discovery of Apes and Monkeys were a novelty, animals that almost looked human. The term Ape and Monkey soon found it’s way into nautical use to describe sailors who’s major contribution to the ship’s crew was brawn and not brains. The term "Deck Ape" is used to describe a sailor, usually a Boatswain's Mate that cares for topside gear and equipment. Another term used is a KNUCKLE-DRAGGER, any sailor whose job requires more brawn than brain. Monkey was used to describe boys in a ship’s crew; they were smaller than Deck Apes and could be trained to become Deck Apes. Monkey spars are small masts and yards on vessels that are used for the instruction and exercise of boys. Powder monkeys were boys whose job was to transport powder from the ship’s magazine to the canons. The powder monkeys had to climb over obstacles and avoid the recoil of the cannons, if they got hurt or killed; it wasn’t a big lost since they were usually orphans. It was originally used as a derogatory term for men and boys without skills on a ship’s crew. Fair Winds. Clyde
The term is used to describe items that are smaller than normal size or demure. As the previous posts have found, the term was based on a 1498 story about Martin the Ape and his son. Back then the discovery of Apes and Monkeys were a novelty, animals that almost looked human. The term Ape and Monkey soon found it’s way into nautical use to describe sailors who’s major contribution to the ship’s crew was brawn and not brains. The term "Deck Ape" is used to describe a sailor, usually a Boatswain's Mate that cares for topside gear and equipment. Another term used is a KNUCKLE-DRAGGER, any sailor whose job requires more brawn than brain. Monkey was used to describe boys in a ship’s crew; they were smaller than Deck Apes and could be trained to become Deck Apes. Monkey spars are small masts and yards on vessels that are used for the instruction and exercise of boys. Powder monkeys were boys whose job was to transport powder from the ship’s magazine to the canons. The powder monkeys had to climb over obstacles and avoid the recoil of the cannons, if they got hurt or killed; it wasn’t a big lost since they were usually orphans. It was originally used as a derogatory term for men and boys without skills on a ship’s crew. Fair Winds. Clyde
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David Guthridge
Monkey Deck
I have my father's logs from his US Army Transportation Corps voyages across the Atlantic in convoys of hundreds of Liberty ships. He was a 1st Lt, Transport Commander and was assigned a cabin on the "monkey deck" of the USAT Betty Zane HR 376. He describes this cabin as "topsides with bunk, leather bench, desk and chair, & wash basin all grey in color." I believe the monkey deck was on top of the midships superstructure behind the bridge. As I recall he said the cabin appeared to be an afterthought like a box just stuck on. With no AC back in 1943 he said it got very warm in the Med in July. Thought you all might like some history. David
I have my father's logs from his US Army Transportation Corps voyages across the Atlantic in convoys of hundreds of Liberty ships. He was a 1st Lt, Transport Commander and was assigned a cabin on the "monkey deck" of the USAT Betty Zane HR 376. He describes this cabin as "topsides with bunk, leather bench, desk and chair, & wash basin all grey in color." I believe the monkey deck was on top of the midships superstructure behind the bridge. As I recall he said the cabin appeared to be an afterthought like a box just stuck on. With no AC back in 1943 he said it got very warm in the Med in July. Thought you all might like some history. David
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