MMSI FCC or What!

[StargazerP303]

Note: I am not an expert here but was tired of the lame reasons given for MMSI usage and fee's that come with it. However, this is what I found and I am very open to other's opinions.

I have been asked about What, Where, and When is a MMSI number used and why do we need to do the FCC's MMSI v.s. Boat-US MMSI or do I really need one to get help!.
I've spent some time at the coastguard shack in Portland, Me. raising this and many questions about this MMSI issues.

1. FCC MMSI number are typical for commercial vessels and larger vessels that include AIS transmitted locations of a vessel. Any documented vessels may apply for an MMSI permit number called MMSI. Usually the vessels make a flight plan stating where the vessels going..etc much like planes do but its with the FAA/ground control.

2. Free MMSI number by local vendors ie.. BoatUs, west marine, etc.. This MMSI number is used with a database (your boats info etc.) managed by the vendor to meet certain FCC requirements also Your Data (MAYBE) Shared with other vendors at the discretion of the vendor for marketing purposes and or local authorities such as the Coast Guard.
*** So the questions are!
1. Do I need to have FCC MMSI number to travel outside US waters... NO!
2. If I'm in trouble (DCS) at sea will the coast guard know my MMSI number if I make a call? They really don't care about your MMSI number, its nice but they are going to respond to just the DCS call and if they need the info they can look up your info from the MMI-DATA-Base supplied to the Coast Guard for login the chances are they will not use it until as a last resort.
3. Do I have to make a Trip Plan and share this with local Coast Guard.. I would, so they have some idea where you are and where your going, much like an airlines makes a flight plan.
So, you ask! why do they have a simple MMSI and/or FCC.MMSI ? The real reason is they were thinking people would stop buying VHF Radio's with an additional $200.00 price tag added to a $4 to 500.00 radio costs with added features such as "bounce trans-receive calls" much like Verizon cell phone the use ships to relay calls around the world. Ship to Ship relay's .
Play safe not dumb!

 

[justsomeguy]

I agree.

 

[chuckwayne]

I'm not sure what agenda Stargazer is pushing but I doubt that all of that came from someone in the CG - if it did, that person needs retraining... I've talked to the CG too.
The last section, in particular, is an opinion.
Point by point;
1.& 2. MMSI numbers in the US can be from either the FCC or one of several private databases, Boat US for example. These private databases are shared with the CG, but only the FCC database is shared with other countries. for a boater in the US, the free sources are fine. However, if you go overseas you are subject to that countries requirements. In Canada, for example, you will not be in their database if you have one of the free numbers. Voyage plans are a different subject. I don't know about the others (like towboat US), but Boat US does not share your data with anyone besides the CG.
the questions:
1. no, you don't, but if you want to use the digital services you need one
2.You missed something; DSC requires an MMSI number - you can make a voice call, but the DSC emergency button on your radio won't do anything unless an MMSI is programmed in. And it's important, because the digital signal range is much greater than voice, and the new CG systems are optimized (and automated) for DSC. A received DSC emergency message automatically brings up the database entry on your boat so they can know what they are dealing with and what equipment you have on board.
AIS also requires an MMSI, and it's real useful if you need to talk to one of the large oil tankers in Portland
3. The CG wouldn't know what to do with voyage plans from recreational boaters - they are short enough on manpower as it is.
leave your float plan with your marina and your emergency contacts - that's who the CG will contact - if you put that in your MMSI data

 

[StargazerP303]

I'm not sure what agenda Stargazer is pushing but I doubt that all of that came from someone in the CG - if it did, that person needs retraining... I've talked to the CG too.
The last section, in particular, is an opinion.
Point by point;
1.& 2. MMSI numbers in the US can be from either the FCC or one of several private databases, Boat US for example. These private databases are shared with the CG, but only the FCC database is shared with other countries. for a boater in the US, the free sources are fine. However, if you go overseas you are subject to that countries requirements. In Canada, for example, you will not be in their database if you have one of the free numbers. Voyage plans are a different subject. I don't know about the others (like towboat US), but Boat US does not share your data with anyone besides the CG.
the questions:
1. no, you don't, but if you want to use the digital services you need one
2.You missed something; DSC requires an MMSI number - you can make a voice call, but the DSC emergency button on your radio won't do anything unless an MMSI is programmed in. And it's important, because the digital signal range is much greater than voice, and the new CG systems are optimized (and automated) for DSC. A received DSC emergency message automatically brings up the database entry on your boat so they can know what they are dealing with and what equipment you have on board.
AIS also requires an MMSI, and it's real useful if you need to talk to one of the large oil tankers in Portland
3. The CG wouldn't know what to do with voyage plans from recreational boaters - they are short enough on manpower as it is.
leave your float plan with your marina and your emergency contacts - that's who the CG will contact - if you put that in your MMSI data

chuckwayne! Thanks for the input here! However, The CG station in Rockland, Maine told me that yes its nice to have a MMSI number but, they don't give any mind unless they need that info. All they care about is LONG-LAT of the DSC code. They currently are not equipped yet to handle nor do they need any boat information to "respond" to a DCS call. To make a DCS call YES! your radio requires one, but it does not have to be FCC MMSI anywhere in the world. The free one works fine as long as you "notify the CG of your trip and include you Free MMSI number with your plan". The CG may, I mean MAY contact your Yacht club/Marina during regular business hours.. However, I doubt it really. What marina has the capable personnel to handle emergency of this magnitude. I have a hard enough time trying to get some work done by some of them..LOL
So the bottom line is send your forms to the CG include your MMSI number, and ok cc: your marina too.
AIS does not require a MMSI number to receive. However, IF you are TRANSMITTING then you have your MMSI number in your transmission part only!
I'm not sure what agenda Stargazer is pushing. There is no agenda here other then sharing and educating our friends and reader's as to what we find about a subject.

 

[dlochner]

1. Do I need to have FCC MMSI number to travel outside US waters... NO!

This is correct, however, to be legal and in compliance with international treaties you must have a ship's station license and at least one person on board must have a restricted radiotelephone operators license if any radio transmissions are made in a foreign country. This is explained on the FCC's website. Yes there is a fee for both licenses, there is no separate fee for the MMSI number.

3. The CG wouldn't know what to do with voyage plans from recreational boaters - they are short enough on manpower as it is.

3. Do I have to make a Trip Plan and share this with local Coast Guard.. I would, so they have some idea where you are and where your going, much like an airlines makes a flight plan.

You may be confusing the CG with Customs and Border Patrol. There is a provision for filling float plans if you have a NEXUS card and a Small Vessel Reporting Number. I haven't used it yet. Check the CBP's website.

FCC MMSI number are typical for commercial vessels and larger vessels that include AIS transmitted locations of a vessel. Any documented vessels may apply for an MMSI permit number called MMSI.

Ship's station licenses are required for most commercial vessels and a Class A transceiver is required on most commercial vessels. It is not typical it is required. Check the FCC rules on their website.

So, you ask! why do they have a simple MMSI and/or FCC.MMSI ? The real reason is they were thinking people would stop buying VHF Radio's with an additional $200.00 price tag added to a $4 to 500.00 radio costs with added features such as "bounce trans-receive calls" much like Verizon cell phone the use ships to relay calls around the world. Ship to Ship relay's .

US registered boats that operate in US waters do not need ship's station licenses and do not need FCC issued MMSI numbers if used solely in US waters. US registered vessels that sail in international waters or in foreign waters do need those licenses by International Treaty and because local law governs their operation. Canada requires ship's station licenses for US registered boats. Whether they enforce that law is another story.

I'm pretty certain that most long distance telephone communications, especially across oceans, is done by satellite or undersea cable. Any kind of ship to ship relay would be unreliable and expensive.

 

[StargazerP303]

This is correct, however, to be legal and in compliance with international treaties you must have a ship's station license and at least one person on board must have a restricted radiotelephone operators license if any radio transmissions are made in a foreign country. This is explained on the FCC's website. Yes there is a fee for both licenses, there is no separate fee for the MMSI number.




You may be confusing the CG with Customs and Border Patrol. There is a provision for filling float plans if you have a NEXUS card and a Small Vessel Reporting Number. I haven't used it yet. Check the CBP's website.
Ship's station licenses are required for most commercial vessels and a Class A transceiver is required on most commercial vessels. It is not typical it is required. Check the FCC rules on their website.
US registered boats that operate in US waters do not need ship's station licenses and do not need FCC issued MMSI numbers if used solely in US waters. US registered vessels that sail in international waters or in foreign waters do need those licenses by International Treaty and because local law governs their operation. Canada requires ship's station licenses for US registered boats. Whether they enforce that law is another story.

I'm pretty certain that most long distance telephone communications, especially across oceans, is done by satellite or undersea cable. Any kind of ship to ship relay would be unreliable and expensive.

I don't know maybe its me, but the rules keep changing. Here enroll here .. no there.. don't forget here.. LOL Oh! by the way you forgot there too!

Here's what I found on HLS(Customs/Border control.

Small Vessel Reporting System (SVRS)
As part of the Customs and Border Protection (CBP) comprehensive effort to improve the security of our nation's borders while enhancing legitimate travel specifically for small boaters, CBP has implemented the Small Vessel Reporting System (SVRS).

Overview

SVRS enables boaters to report quickly and easily to CBP their arrival from foreign waters.
It is a free, easy-to-use, voluntary program that you enroll for online.

Eligibility

SVRS is available to all U.S. citizens, nationals and lawful permanent residents; Canadian citizens and permanent residents of Canada who are nationals of a Visa Waiver Program country.

Local Boater Option participants, Trusted Traveler Program members and current holders of an I-68 (Canadian Border Boat Landing Permit) must apply for enrollment in SVRS on-line in order to participate, but they do not need to schedule an interview with a CBP officer to complete their application.

How to Enroll
The enrollment system is web-based. New applicants register online and self-schedule an interview with a CBP officer at an authorized reporting location of their choice.
Participants receive a welcoming email with their Boater Registration (BR) number and password for SVRS.

Availability
Small Vessel Reporting System
Spread The Word!
Help others get to shore quickly - spread the word about SVRS!
Please feel free to share the information below.

"CBP Announces New Small Vessel Reporting System" - Public Service Announcement

https://www.cbp.gov/travel/pleasure-boats-private-flyers/svrs

Ya know! I do miss the days when pleasure boating was "pleasurable"

 

[Chief RA]

Since I have a lifetime electronics technician FCC license (FCC lic#1890) in both radar and comm; can I legally communicate in foreign waters? Chief

 

[Brian D]

Chief RA, is that a question? I don't think it allows you to operate. Simply because an Electronic Technician FCC License is not a operators license.

I hold an Extra Class Amateur Radio license that is issued by the FCC and recognized by many countries in the world, but does not allow me to operate on the Marine Bands. My license does allow me to operate in international waters or airspace, but I must get permission to operate within another countries boundaries (unless a reciprocal agreement exist). Which is really kind of weird because in order to get the class of license I have requires somewhat the same knowledge of electronics as your class of license. But I was also required to know and understand the rules and regulations, and to show competence in reception of the International Morse Code.

So those qualifications alone should be able to move me over automatically to a Restricted Radiotelephone Operator license. But I do not work for the FCC nor am I a FCC lawyer, so I do not know the answer to your question.

 

[capta]

If you don't have an MMSI number, Radio Bermuda is going to chastise you like a little child when you go to enter their port. They wanted me to have a goodly number of electronic items aboard my boat that I felt were unnecessary and of little use to me. It really pissed me off. After all, I'd been finding their little island before any of what he seemed to feel were absolutely essential items for safe navigation were even invented!

 

[Rick D]

Does anyone else find it an annoying exception that commercial fishing boats are exempt from AIS requirements?

 

[capta]

Since I have a lifetime electronics technician FCC license (FCC lic#1890) in both radar and comm; can I legally communicate in foreign waters? Chief

It simply depends on what reciprocal agreements exist between your licensing agency and the one in the country you are broadcasting.
However, it is my understanding that a technician's license is not an operator's license in the US, and you can only broadcast when you are acting as a technician, repairing or testing equipment.
Since the FCC restricted marine radio operator's permit is a give away and good for life, I can't see why anyone would hesitate to get one, in the US anyway.

 

[Chief RA]

Brian D: As you must know, a FCC tech license has to cover operation in the course of technical qualification and education. Few people can pass a Technician FCC exam. I obviously do not know the answer either but if I sail Canada I would need to know. Thanks, Chief

 

[Brian D]

I agree, Chief RA, wasn't at all trying to denigrate or degrade your qualifications.

 

[Charles Erwin]

What is the cost for FCC ships VHF license?

 

[shemandr]

Does anyone else find it an annoying exception that commercial fishing boats are exempt from AIS requirements?

No. I think it's a recognition that where they fish is similar to a trade secret.

 

[jssailem]

Does anyone else find it an annoying exception that commercial fishing boats are exempt from AIS requirements?

. It was one of the puzzle pieces that factored into not seeing the fishing boat that hit my boat beyond 35 yards in the fog. Had he operated an AIS I would have known of his existence and path and could have adjusted my course to compensate for his careless behavior.

 

[Chief RA]

Brian D: No problem, your comments were well taken. Chief

 

[dlochner]

So those qualifications alone should be able to move me over automatically to a Restricted Radiotelephone Operator license.

Brian, you would be over qualified. The basic qualifications for a Restricted Radiotelephone Operator licenses are that you can read English, keep a transmission log, and the check doesn't bounce.

 

[Richard19068]

Does anyone else find it an annoying exception that commercial fishing boats are exempt from AIS requirements?

Yes. I think it would be reasonable that they be required to receive when they are actively fishing (so they can radio and call off approaching boats if necessary) and to transmit if they are moving over a certain speed.

 

[capta]

Does anyone else find it an annoying exception that commercial fishing boats are exempt from AIS requirements?

A commercial fishing vessel actively engaged in fishing rarely maintains a set course or speed. Quite often there is no one on the bridge to monitor your AIS, and no captain actively engaged in fishing has the time or inclination to chat with some sailor about his intentions.
The rules are quite clear: steer clear of any vessel actively engaged in fishing. Just like the red aloft for dangerous cargo at night, a fishing vessel actively engaged in fishing has a red light as the highest light, too. Red for danger. Red for stay away. Red for quite possibly not under command. Never mind all the very bright deck lights that inhibit those onboard from seeing other vessels. How would the fishing vessel having AIS improve your ability to steer well clear?