Mixing and matching batteries, house vs engine...

Mar 20, 2012
3,983
Cal 34-III, MacGregor 25 Salem, Oregon
in addition to the battery area wiring needing to be cleaned up and marked, its time to replace the batteries.... I was going to let it go for awhile, but when I checked the water in the batteries they are so sulfated that i cant bring myself to allow them even a fighting chance... they are being replaced next weekend.

currently installed is 3 g24 dual purpose batteries that are severely sulfated. (you can see the plate swelling inside the case)....

I have done a search on the site for what I want to know but there is so much to search thru that doesnt answer my questions, that I need to ask for advice directly.... so hopefully you can answer or be able to point me in the direction of a link that will:D

the facts as I know them are...

I only have room for 3 batteries withou a lot of modifying.

I currently have a Blue Sea charging rely separating the engine batt from the house batts.

I have a balmar mc-614 regulator and a 100amp alternator installed.

the AC charger is a pro mariner prosport 20... and im not sure how these chargers and relays are all hooked up at this time, but to some questionable degree, they have all been working together successfully.

lighting is LED... and what isnt yet, soon will be....

I will in the near future be installing 200-300watts of solar. (I am aware that I could have more batteries for this amount of solar)

I plan to eventually convert the ice box to a refrigerator (which accounts for the desire to have more solar power)

I am planning to use a G27 standard battery for the start/engine circuit, and 2 batts for the house circuit, but please feel free to change my mind if you can see a better way to get me to where I want to go.... which is a long life system that is the most powerful for the space that i have available...

I know there are better battery chargers available on the market, but im not going to replace any chargers or relays at this time, as my budget this month is for batteries. although eliminating some un-needed item from the system may be in order

I know there may be better batteries on the market, but I get special pricing on the trojan batteries, so that is what I will use... and I am a fan of the lead acid type.

as for the batteries,
question one... with the space available for 2 g31 house batts, which is the better choice, 2 12volt or 2 6volt batteries?
I know 2 6volt's will beat 1 12volt by a mile... but im not sure about 2 12"s vs 2 6's....

question two... using a standard g27 start battery along side the different size house bank, which is the best way to isolate and charge to insure there is no damage done between the different size banks? will the AC charger take care of this with is dual circuits?... and does the MC-614 allow for the banks to be charged at different rates?....

question three... does the blue sea charge relay do anything other than prevent the start battery from being discharged by the house bank, while still being connected to and allowing it to be charged from the house bank?...

and the last question.... I have read conflicting reports on whether the DC ground circuit should or should not be bonded to the AC green/ground circuit.... all that I have read would indicate it all depends on if you have a galvanic isolator/isolation transformer installed in the system... and if the proper equipment is in place, bonding is safer. if the proper equipment is not in place, bonding can damage the metal parts of the boat below the waterline.... Is this information correct?
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,759
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
the facts as I know them are...

I only have room for 3 batteries withou a lot of modifying.
How much height? Do you have 2" +/- on top of the existing batteries?

I currently have a Blue Sea charging rely separating the engine batt from the house batts.
This is good, if wired properly..

I have a balmar mc-614 regulator and a 100amp alternator installed.
Best regulator on the market, if properly set up and wired.

the AC charger is a pro mariner prosport 20... and im not sure how these chargers and relays are all hooked up at this time, but to some questionable degree, they have all been working together successfully.
Marginal charger but can work. Absorption is too low for Trojans. All outputs should be wired to house bank then let the ACR do the rest.

lighting is LED... and what isnt yet, soon will be....
Excellent.

I will in the near future be installing 200-300watts of solar. (I am aware that I could have more batteries for this amount of solar)
Solar is great, get a good programmable MPPT controller such as the Rogue or the MidNite KID to go with your 300 watts...


I plan to eventually convert the ice box to a refrigerator (which accounts for the desire to have more solar power)
Solar won't always cut it if you don't have the storage capacity to get through the night of a few days of rain...

I am planning to use a G27 standard battery for the start/engine circuit, and 2 batts for the house circuit, but please feel free to change my mind if you can see a better way to get me to where I want to go.... which is a long life system that is the most powerful for the space that i have available...
If you can fit it use a Trojan SCS-225 (group 31 deep cycle). If this bank is ever needed for "reserve duty" you will be glad you had the extra capacity and a deep cycle battery.

I know there are better battery chargers available on the market, but im not going to replace any chargers or relays at this time, as my budget this month is for batteries. although eliminating some un-needed item from the system may be in order
The ProSport will work if wired to the house bank and the relay does the start battery. You WILL want so supplement the low voltages of the ProSport with solar set to 14.7V -14.8V if using Trojans...

I know there may be better batteries on the market, but I get special pricing on the trojan batteries, so that is what I will use... and I am a fan of the lead acid type.
Trojan's are great batteries but do like higher charging voltages to last.. GEL, AGM and Flooded batteries are all "lead acid" batteries....;)

as for the batteries,
question one... with the space available for 2 g31 house batts, which is the better choice, 2 12volt or 2 6volt batteries?
I know 2 6volt's will beat 1 12volt by a mile... but im not sure about 2 12"s vs 2 6's...
Trojan rates their T105 (GC2 6V) at DOUBLE the cycle life of the SCS-225 (group 31 12V).... Enough said!!!:) If you have the height needed for GC2 batteries, do it...

question two... using a standard g27 start battery along side the different size house bank, which is the best way to isolate and charge to insure there is no damage done between the different size banks? will the AC charger take care of this with is dual circuits?... and does the MC-614 allow for the banks to be charged at different rates?....
That is what your ACR is for.. Not an issue. I do NOT advise feeding the "dual outputs" of the charger to both banks feed them ALL to the house bank and let the ACR do the rest. These charger are not "dual output" they have one algorithm & one charge profile...

question three... does the blue sea charge relay do anything other than prevent the start battery from being discharged by the house bank, while still being connected to and allowing it to be charged from the house bank?...{/quote]

It is really nothing more than an automatic BOTH switch... It combines (makes) the banks during charging and isolates (opens) when there is no charging. Could not be simpler or more reliable. Never seen one fail...

and the last question.... I have read conflicting reports on whether the DC ground circuit should or should not be bonded to the AC green/ground circuit.... all that I have read would indicate it all depends on if you have a galvanic isolator/isolation transformer installed in the system... and if the proper equipment is in place, bonding is safer. if the proper equipment is not in place, bonding can damage the metal parts of the boat below the waterline.... Is this information correct?
There is NO QUESTION in the USA. DC ground IS bonded to AC Earth/safety ground..

The AC/DC bond has NOTHING to do with a galvanic isolator it is for SAFETY. Any boat plugged into a marina had better have at least a galvanic isolator. A much better solution is an isolation transformer but this gets pricey...
 
Mar 20, 2012
3,983
Cal 34-III, MacGregor 25 Salem, Oregon
How much height? Do you have 2" +/- on top of the existing batteries?

If you can fit it use a Trojan SCS-225 (group 31 deep cycle). If this bank is ever needed for "reserve duty" you will be glad you had the extra capacity and a deep cycle battery.

Trojan rates their T105 (GC2 6V) at DOUBLE the cycle life of the SCS-225 (group 31 12V).... Enough said!!!:) If you have the height needed for GC2 batteries, do it...

There is NO QUESTION in the USA. DC ground IS bonded to AC Earth/safety ground..

The AC/DC bond has NOTHING to do with a galvanic isolator it is for SAFETY. Any boat plugged into a marina had better have at least a galvanic isolator. A much better solution is an isolation transformer but this gets pricey...


it sounds like I have something to work with.... I do have plenty of overhead room so I am assuming you are saying that 2 6volt T105's would be a much better choice than 2 12volt SCS-225's.... although I was leaning towards the T145's, do you think this may be a bit much?

the boat does not have a galvanic isolator... I will get one this week.
my AC and DC grounds are NOT bonded at this time, and there is a .87 volt difference between them when measured from the AC to the DC grounds...