Missing The Mark...

[atwhite2]

Please forgive any lack of correct terminology...
I acquired my first trailerable sailboat this past spring, a 1976 O'Day 20. I am working on restoring it to its former glory. Still I have taken it out a few times this spring and have run into a problem while I am trying to re-trailer it.
As the trailer is submerged in the water at a steep angle, and as the bow of the boat is pulled tight against the bow roller with the winch, everything appears snug. As I pull the trailer and the boat out of the water, the boat settles on the trailer and the angle of the boat/trailer changes--and as the boat settles into the trailer bunks, the bow pulls away from the bow roller, and I end up with 6 or so inches separating the bow roller and the bow of the boat. Now the boat weighs 1800lbs, so it is not going anywhere, but is there a re-trailering method that will help eliminate this and keep it snug against the bow roller, or does it not make a difference? Any advice would be appreciated, Thank you.

sorry I don't have any pictures to help describe my dilemma.

-Abe

 

[Tom Spohn]

I am not familiar with the O'Day, but MacGregors have the same problem. Most folks spray a silicon based liquid on the bunks which helps a little. Most effective is the MacGregor "bump". Put the boat on the trailer and tighten the bow restraint as tight as you can. While in the parking lot move forward at not more than 10mph and then hit the brakes. The boat will slide forward into the front of the trailer. Tighten up the straps and you are good to go. I know this sounds strange, but it works fine--at least on the Mac.

 

[Joe]

Why can't you winch it in anymore once you have the trailer on level ground? Think about the geometry... the boat is level in the water. The trailer is at an angle... that makes the bow relatively lower to the trailer than the stern. You haul the boat to level ground the stern lowers to sit on the guides, the bow rises because the boat is pivoting on the keel guide. Because you're launching from a steep ramp and and floating the boat on to the trailer you're never going to get it right in one try. You could try not submerging the trailer all the way, then winch in the boat so the bow is up out or the water putting the boat on the same plane as the trailer... but a picture would help.

 

[atwhite2]

Why can't you winch it in anymore once you have the trailer on level ground? Think about the geometry... the boat is level in the water. The trailer is at an angle... that makes the bow relatively lower to the trailer than the stern. You haul the boat to level ground the stern lowers to sit on the guides, the bow rises because the boat is pivoting on the keel guide. Because you're launching from a steep ramp and and floating the boat on to the trailer you're never going to get it right in one try. You could try not submerging the trailer all the way, then winch in the boat so the bow is up out or the water putting the boat on the same plane as the trailer... but a picture would help.

I can't use the winch, the boat weighs 1800 lbs and it sits flat on two bunks and the swing keel rests flat on a 2x10--so there is a lot of friction to overcome. I think that if I used some marine white lithium grease sprayed on the 2x10 where the keel sits (the majority of the weight rests there) I may be able to use a pulley system to pull it in the remaining 6 inches once the boat is out of the water.
Has anyone out there had any luck with roller bunks on a trailerable sailboat? It was an idea, don't know if it would work.

Thanks

 

[David F]

Abe, I too asked about using rollers on the bunks and several fellow Mac owners advised that a sailboat hull is not built thick enough for the rollers...indentions etc and they need to set flat on more area of the bunks. The recommendation for easy winching after retreval was a lubricant on the bunks, even Vaseline which is what I used. The 26' Mac was almost too easy to crank up. I assume it would be the same with the O'day.

 

[oldiesrocker2001]

The Macgregor "bump" would probably work. My old venture has the same problem and I also use 'Liquid rollers' on my old carpet covered bunks. Make sure the boat is straight on the trailer, though.. Mine tends to have the swing keel resting off center unless I get it just right on recovery-still sometimes takes a second try back in the water slightly to shift it over when necessary. My keel though, rests a couple of inches from the V at the bottom of the trailer during recovery until I crank it down to relieve pressure during traveling or waiting for the next sail. :dance:

 

[sinnettc]

Do you have a keel or just a centerboard? My Capri 22 (fin keel) never sits right on the trailer either when you pull it out. The local method of addressing that is to wrap a tow strap behind the keel and use a come-a-long to winch it forward the 4-6 inches necessary for the boat to sit right on the trailer.

 

[walt]

You might try a different trailer hitch/ball which lowers the front of the trailer a little. I had a similar problem on my old Mac trailer and adding a bow roller helped considerably.

 

[watercolors II]

Winch height!

Your problem comes from your winch not being high enough on the winch tower. Submerging the front of the bunks is correct but the winch is pulling down on the bow. As stated the boat and trailer angles do not match, pulling the bow straight in or down will not allow this angle to change, as you pull everything out of the water the stern is going to go down onto the back of the bunks thus raising the bow and pulling it away from the tower. The front of your bunks is acting as a pivot point for all of this to happen.

When the bow eye is perfectly level with the winch or slightly lower when the boat is in it's proper resting position on the trailer, things will work much better. During recovery, with the winch in this location, you will be lifting the bow up and the stern will sink, thus matching the trailer angle.

Something to try, the next time you recovery your boat, have someone stand as far back at the stern as possible when winching the boat on the trailer and pulling out of the water, you'll see that the boat will not be as far back as before.

Scroll down to "Winch tower build" by RECESS and read my explanation on trailering.

I've been sailing a Catalina 22 for 17 years with about a dozen other trailer sailors in the range of 19 to 28 feet, we all have been launching and recovery 2 to 3 times a year during this time, so I've seen and been involved with it all!

 

[Joe11688]

Most O'Days have a strong thick hull that can take a roller trailer. My O'Day 222 came with a single axle Load-Rite roller trailer made specifically for these boats. The O'Day 192's and the 240's came with this same type of trailer. I've also seen O'Day 23s on a tandem roller trailer. With that said, I went from a roller trailer to a bunk tandem trailer a few years ago and have the same problem, but I'm only using my trailer about twice a year. My friend Wayne came up with an idea to solve this problem on his Seaward 22 and bunk trailer. He uses a hydraulic bottle jack with a boat roller bolted into the top of it. He places the jack on the trailer frame under the bow of the boat when the boat's bow is winched up to the bow roller of the trailer, and jacks the bow up to a predetermined angle so that when he pulls the boat up the ramp, the boat stays at that angle and stays right against the bow roller of the trailer. The only down side to this is that he has to get into the water to jack it up. It really works. I've seen him do it.
Joe

 

[Henry Scurlock]

Silicon spray on the bunk carpets will help in allowing you to winch the boat more once you are off the ramp. BUT be careful when launching as the boat will slide off the trailer easier too. Just saying.

 

[Mark Major]

Silicon spray on the bunk carpets will help in allowing you to winch the boat more once you are off the ramp. BUT be careful when launching as the boat will slide off the trailer easier too. Just saying.

I've never lubed my bunks, but am considering trying that out. For environmental reasons I'm thinking a vegetable oil spray or lard. Just a thought; any pros or cons?

 

[George H260]

This is a common problem for many trailerable boats. Over 40 years ago I learned that a boat usually slides forward when you tap the brakes a couple of times in the parking lot. I have to go down a steep hill a couple of miles from the marina so I usually just pull over at the bottom of the hill and check everything before proceeding. Almost always the boat has slid up against winch tower.

Greasing the bunks helps but then you have to tow a boat with slippery bunks down the highway .

In addition to the expense, if you convert your trailer to rollers you'll probably have dimples where the rollers rest on the hull.

More on trailering at this link: http://h260.com/travel/travel.html

 

[Rick Webb]

I've Used the Brake, Stomp, Bump as Well

Where we are now though it is a gravel yard and it does not work on that surface. What I have found though is if I put some Ivory liquid soap (not detergent for all of the critters swiming about) then tension the winch strap I can push on the transom jiggle it and the boat moves forward, tension it some more, etc. I can get it up to the bow stop. With two guys on the transom it is even easier. When the soap drys it is more like a glue than a lubricant so no problem there.

I have considered even as whacky as it sounds pulling the end of the trailer up snug to the boat while it is still in the water. I guess a pair of ratcheting straps would pull the the trailer up (or boat down) and get rid of theat pesky angle difference that makes it difficult to keep the boat up against the stop when pulling it out. If I pulled the boat out frequently I'd pursue the idea but as infrequently as I do I'll just keep pushing.

 

[Joe11688]

The ratcheting straps would pull the trailer up to the hull of your boat, I'm sure. It would solve the problem, but the boat and trailer could drift off sideways unless you could hold it in place somehow. An old friend of mine brought his trailer over to Martha's Vineyard Island years ago,--- strapped to the bottom of his powerboat. He didn't want to pay the extra money to ferry it over. True story.
Joe

 

[Rick Webb]

Trailer Strapped up to Boat

So long as the trailer is attached to the truck drifting left or right will not matter

 

[Joe11688]

So long as the trailer is attached to the truck drifting left or right will not matter

It will definitely work for you then, Rick.

 

[JoelHoover]

Tell Roger Macgregor that we want the next boat to have telescoping wheels like an airplane. No trailer necessary. Drive your Mac to work.

 

[Joe11688]

Hey Joel,
I'll try to get word to Roger for you. I think that sounds like a great idea! :dance:
Joe

 

[Paul Brinkley]

I keep reading that you can't use rollers on a trailer with a Mac, yet my 26S was on a trailer with rollers when I bought it 2 years ago, and it still is. Ther are no dimples in the hull, and the hull is not flattened when the boat is on the trailer. It seems to me that if you have ENOUGH rollers, or roller area, that there should be no problem. I also don't need the Mac Bump- I just crank it on in after I pull out of the water. -Paul